Nope, I disagree that is our disagreement.
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Jethro Bodine
Member
Then you do not understand the non-OSAS argument. But I am not surprised. Few OSASer's do. I'm not being cruel, or condescending. I'm simply sharing my personal observation. I wish you would relax and open up a little to at least understand the argument properly. I'm not saying relax and accept it. I just would like to see you actually understand the argument properly the way it's actually being presented, not the way you're hearing it.
Gary
Member
Jethro Bodine
Member
If I continue in my faith to the very end--the faith that secures the forgiveness of God for me--then, 'yes', I will be saved on the Day of Wrath. And my family will be saved if they, too, put their faith in Christ's forgiveness and endure in it to the end.
Jethro Bodine
Member
See? Another OSASer who simply does not understand the argument.
Amen! Now heed the warnings to continue in that faith and grace so you can be saved on the Day of Wrath.
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If God is willing to save a wretch like me, then I'm grabbing hold of that promise and not letting go.
I know I'm saved.
That's OSAS baby!
But you don't grasp that with all your "ifs".
You just think of OSAS as one theory and you place everyone in it.
I know I'm saved.
That's OSAS baby!
But you don't grasp that with all your "ifs".
You just think of OSAS as one theory and you place everyone in it.
Hi Gary,
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I answered that in post number 10.
Only God can do miracles, not you or I.
I believe a time will come when God will surprise us with the miracles he did for us.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Yes, your faith is your eternal security. That's what I've been saying for months now in this forum. Faith is what makes salvation secure. Your salvation is no longer secure(d) if you lose your faith, 'cause faith is how you lay hold of salvation.
I think I just showed you I do grasp that the security of our salvation is our faith. That's why you have to hang on to it! Let's examine all of Paul's 'if's about salvation:
"...Christ was faithful as a Son over His house -whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end." (Hebrews 3:6 NASB)
"...we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end" (Hebrews 6:14 NASB)
"He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach - 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard" (Colossians 1:22-23 NASB)
"...the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you" (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)
"...you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited , but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell,severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cutoff. " (Romans 11:20-22 NASB)
th1b.taylor
Member
An issue I'll be happy to see God settle. Jesus said that none that the Father has delivered into His hand can be lost giving us cause for a great metaphor. Salvation is like unto a great sailing vessel with ten foot high Gun Whales, the sides extending up over the deck. We can trip and fall down on deck... sin, but we cannot fall nor can we roll off the ship... loose a sincere salvation.
This is a complicated issue for anyone but God because we live in the Temporal State of Being created by God for our benefit, God exists outside and inside this state of being, giving Him Great advantage. Here is one to spend the rest of your lives trying to get your head wrapped around; Because God exists, right now, in the Past, inthe Future and in the Here and Now, He knows.
I did not define that last sentence on purpose! I, the created, can not possibly know what God knows! With study of the Revealed Word of God we can and should learn what God has revealed of Himself but then comes the great question, "Is that all?"
There is an indication in the final 27 books of the Bible that just screams "NO!" when it says, to the effect6 that if all the words of Jesus were written down there would not be libraries to hold them. God has ceased writing in the Book of Life and that was before He breathed life into Adam.
My name is in the Book of Life and so it is that I answered God's last call for me to serve Him. Can I tell you who else is saved? No, but the Spirit in me does, indeed, identify with those that are not quenching the Spirit residing in them. All the others, lost and saved, I know nothing of and except on my own web site I am usually not allowed to address these in the manner called for in the scriptures.
The Great Commission, clearly calls us to be confrontational but web etiquette calls us not to be. This can be a tough one to balance but we must never fail trying. But the long and the short of it is that I, Bill Taylor, am saved and I cannot even throw that salvation away.
This is a complicated issue for anyone but God because we live in the Temporal State of Being created by God for our benefit, God exists outside and inside this state of being, giving Him Great advantage. Here is one to spend the rest of your lives trying to get your head wrapped around; Because God exists, right now, in the Past, inthe Future and in the Here and Now, He knows.
I did not define that last sentence on purpose! I, the created, can not possibly know what God knows! With study of the Revealed Word of God we can and should learn what God has revealed of Himself but then comes the great question, "Is that all?"
There is an indication in the final 27 books of the Bible that just screams "NO!" when it says, to the effect6 that if all the words of Jesus were written down there would not be libraries to hold them. God has ceased writing in the Book of Life and that was before He breathed life into Adam.
My name is in the Book of Life and so it is that I answered God's last call for me to serve Him. Can I tell you who else is saved? No, but the Spirit in me does, indeed, identify with those that are not quenching the Spirit residing in them. All the others, lost and saved, I know nothing of and except on my own web site I am usually not allowed to address these in the manner called for in the scriptures.
The Great Commission, clearly calls us to be confrontational but web etiquette calls us not to be. This can be a tough one to balance but we must never fail trying. But the long and the short of it is that I, Bill Taylor, am saved and I cannot even throw that salvation away.
Hebrews 3:6;
...if we hold fast our confidence and boast of our hope firm until the end.
Good verse.
Isn't that what I just said about myself?
Hebrews 6:14; ditto.
And all the other verses you quoted, I stated about myself.
So you are using Scripture to prove what I believe.
So what are we debating?
We're debating who is really saved and who isn't.
Jethro Bodine
Member
You're a fart smeller...I mean a smart feller, right?
So, according to how you interpret the 'ifs' in Paul's passages, how can you possibly know you're truly saved since the end hasn't come yet?
Think about it! You won't, and can't know that you're saved until you see if you endured to the end! And OSAS calls that the security of knowing you're eternally saved?????
What I believe.
I believe that Jethro Bodine is saved.
I believe I know him well enough to say that he truly loves Jesus and will spend all eternity with him.
He may have doubts but that will not stop God from saving him.
God is more powerful than our doubts.
God can and will make it happen.
And there will be great glory to God in heaven the day Jethro enters, just as it will be for all of us.
Because God will not be defeated.
His love is stronger than anything we can imagine.
Dear Sister Deborah13, to understand the verse you ask about it must be taken in context with Heb 10:26 through the remainder of the chapter.Can you explain this scripture? To me it does indicate that it is possible for someone who has been sanctified by the blood of Christ to become apostate.
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. These had received; not believed, or at least it does not say they had.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses. Is this suggesting that these too were despising the Son of God? The next verse answers that.
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? These were selected to hear the word, see the miracles, and take part ot the Holy Spirit’ leading and yet they turned back. I know you are looking for the thought that they were saved first, and then turned back to damnation as it were. NO!
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. There is the argument throughout scripture of
My pastor Jesse O’Dorsio made these comments referring to Hebrews Chapter 10 with these statements from Acts 7:51-60. "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." There's no love. We understand that the Holy Ghost has to visit us, He's the one that convicts us to accept Christ as our Savior. This is what he's talking about. Now you jump down to the fifty-forth verse, it says "when they heard these things, they were cut to the heart and they gnashed on him with their teeth." See, they knew, they knew, they received, there was an enlightenment, but what happened? They gnashed on him with their teeth. That's what it says here when it says that they daily; what did we read here in Heb 10:29, it said "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God." This is them., this is them and how much sorer punishment? How much sorer punishment? Acts 7:55 "But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God," What did these men do? 57 "Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord." They were cut to the heart, they were enlightened, they received, but they never believed.
I do not know that this will help you, but I too believe this. Blessings in Christ Jesus.
Gary
Member
Ok, so anyone who says Jesus is Lord and believes He came back to life is saved. Got it.
If it's really that simple, can you explain that passage from Matthew? (Matthew 7:21-23) Why weren't they granted access to the Kingdom? They obviously believed and they addressed Him as Lord. Yet Jesus said He never knew them. I wonder why? Not once in their walk did He acknowledge them. I wonder what they did wrong?
What is your interpretation of that passage Rollo Tamasi ?
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Well Gary, that's what I've been saying to another on this thread.
You say they are obviously saved, but I say the way Jesus answered them proves that they were never saved.
And by the way, are you really interested in OSAS or are you just trying to catch me saying something wrong, the way the Pharisees always tried to catch Jesus?
Gary
Member
Would you mind showing me where I said that? I searched and can't seem to find it.
Thanks.
.
Oh really?Would you mind showing me where I said that? I searched and can't seem to find it.
Thanks.
.
How about post #55?
Gary
Member
iLOVE
Member
Christians who keep sinning despite divine discipline can actually sin themselves right out of this life and into God’s presence. God does this in order to keep such a one from doing any more damage to himself and to his witness for His Holy Name. “If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death” (1 John 5:16-17). These sins do not cause us to lose our salvation, but they definitely affect our relationship with God and others. We are wise if we never deteriorate to the point of having our consciences seared.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/seared-conscience.html#ixzz3GjrMmGiD
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/seared-conscience.html#ixzz3GjrMmGiD