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The Closing of the American Mind

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The Closing of the American Mind

Postby azlan88 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:49 pm

I named my post after a book by Allan Bloom called The Closing of the American Mind, which is about modern day philosophy, culture, and education. However, I will not base my post on the book, which I thought merited both applause and criticism. Instead, I will cite ideas from this book to make a case for better education, and by education, I mean preparing students to become better souls. Now I confess that I read only half of Bloom's book up to this point (but I will continue to read the rest), so I will not pretend to be an expert on what he has to say. However, it's important that I regurgitate his most important point which I have come across so far, that although we won World War 2 on the Atlantic front, we lost on the spiritual front (I doubt that Bloom believes in God, but he does use the word "spiritual").

Have you ever heard the phrase, "God is Dead?" These words were used by the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. He actually said, "God is dead. God remains dead, and we killed him." I am not an expert on Nietzsche, either, but fundamentally, he believed that by eliminating morality, we can create our own morality and thereby become "supermen." Nietzsche was aware that a long period of nihilism would follow, but this did not seem to concern him.

Now here's what this has to do with us. Many of the words that we use and even the way we think originate from such German thought, which became an influence in American society even before world war 2. To quote Allan Bloom, when Americans were "Americanizing" the world by handing everybody blue jeans, the world's souls were also being tailored to this very German thought that used Americanism as a vehicle to propagate itself.

The whole world wears blue jeans and listens to rock and role, but nihilism also persists in every country, especially in ours. When it was once scorned upon to look at pornography or engage in pre-marital sex, those things are now the norm. We call good evil and evil good. Anybody who does not practice what is evil in the sight of God is a social outcast. But the social implications are only the tip of the iceberg. When God is removed from the picture, what refrains us from throwing each other into cages and selling each other on the meat market? Germany already did this, but instead of meat markets, Jewish babies were burned alive in little ovens.

What is striking is that the road that the German people went down so swiftly has been happening to us, but we have been moving at a more gradual pace until now. At this day in age where relationships are mechanically sexual, and in which people admire other cultures but know less and less about their own, we are conditioning a people who are becoming less than human. Could the end result be nothing less than the abolition of man?
Last edited by azlan88 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby jasoncran on Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:52 pm

you mean men without chests, scientifically understanding the world,but unable to feel it and have a moral reference.
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby azlan88 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:10 pm

Yes, men without chests. I bought The Abolition of Man moths ago, but I have to read it again to better cement it into my mind.
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby Lance_Iguana on Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:54 pm

Its odd you are talking about Nieztche in this light. Nieztche was pretty much ignored durring his actual life. HIs works where outragous, but where almost discarded because he was actually a mad men. After loosing his ability to teach, he spent reh remainder of his life in a mental hospital.

If you read his works chronologically, you'll notice that he goes from being coherent in the Anti Christ and Twilight of the Idols to Stark mad.

The Comment " God is dead, and we killed him" is part of a story. Where a man looking for God stumbles on a party who sees the man franticly searching. The story has been seen to have multiple meanings, and might not be literal. Nietszche's work centered around the indevidual and improving the self. Even if it ment sarcrificeing the friendship of others, becaue what others think isn't important, its how much you have worked and improved that mattered.

Nihlism is the complete uncareing and almost hatred of the world. Nothing maters save you, and nothing deserves your pitty.

Nietzsche probably would have been a forgotten philosopher and written off as nothing but a madman if it wasn't for Hitler. Hittler took some of Nietszche's ideas about being the Ubermensch, mixed it with Evoltionary theory, and then used Christianity as a vehicle to the masses. HItler to the great works of Jesus, Neitsche, and Darwin, and turned them into blasphemies for his own goals.
Tell me what has become of my rights
Am I invisible because you ignore me?
Your proclamation promised me free liberty, now
I'm tired of bein' the victim of shame
They're throwing me in a class with a bad name
I can't believe this is the land from which I came
You know I do really hate to say it
The government don't wanna see
But if Roosevelt was livin'
He wouldn't let this be, no, no
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby azlan88 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:22 pm

Roman spiritualism was used as an attempt to extract Nietzsche's madness. It didn't work. But the resurgence of Nietzsche's philosophy in the form of moral relativism, which people defend by saying, "don't judge me!" and "you're intolerant!" has given the world, and particularly America, a thrashing. It's necessary to quote Francis A. Schaeffer, who wrote in his book, How Should We Then Live? about freedom without chaos and freedom with chaos. Because we have largely removed morality from public and private life, we have freedom with chaos.
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby Lance_Iguana on Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:53 pm

azlan88 wrote:Roman spiritualism was used as an attempt to extract Nietzsche's madness.[/quote} I don't think I follow you on this. It didn't work. But the resurgence of Nietzsche's philosophy in the form of moral relativism, which people defend by saying, "don't judge me!" and "you're intolerant!"
That has nothing to do with Nietszche's philosophy. Nietsche's outlook was all about being a loner and not careing what the world thinks of you. Nietszche was anti society, while relativism is pro society. Nihlism is about the self while Relativism is about harmony with the whole
has given the world, and particularly America, a thrashing. It's necessary to quote Francis A. Schaeffer, who wrote in his book, How Should We Then Live? about freedom without chaos and freedom with chaos. Because we have largely removed morality from public and private life, we have freedom with chaos.
We haven't removed morality. I think you are judging the United states from a biased opinion. Morality was always left up to the indevidual states, towns, and townships. That is why there are lists of odd laws throught the United states that are unique to their area.

US History is filled with Xenophobia, Native American Slaughter, Rascism, Homophobia, Women's sufferage, lawlessness, War, civil war, and corruption.

When ever I hear or read about these timese where everyone was more moral, I wonder where I can buy these rose tinted glasses they seem to be wearing.


Claiming a lack of moriality currently is based on personal bias and a selective memory of history.

Comparing the burnig of wiches, the enslavement and oppresion of darker skinned races, the killing Germans, the japenesse Internment camps, The slaughter of native americans, The corruption of the 1920s business, the bussness deals we made durring world war 2 before our involvment, and the invasion of the west coast compared to Abortion and the acceptance of Homosexuality is laughable.
Tell me what has become of my rights
Am I invisible because you ignore me?
Your proclamation promised me free liberty, now
I'm tired of bein' the victim of shame
They're throwing me in a class with a bad name
I can't believe this is the land from which I came
You know I do really hate to say it
The government don't wanna see
But if Roosevelt was livin'
He wouldn't let this be, no, no
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby azlan88 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:42 pm

Lance, look around you. Morality is all but dead. Everything is completely different from the way it used to be. People used to be so uptight about sex that women's skirts hung at their ankles. Now they're just above women's crotches, indicating a change in the way people view sex. I'm not saying that high skirts are "immoral." I'm just using an example of how the mindset has changed. Look at violence, too. We don't have a Roman arena, but we have bloody horror movies and video games to satisfy people's lust for blood (I'm not condemning electronics). And how can we forget the F-bombs that we throw around? My point is that we live in a permissive society in which few have the courage to judge others on the basis of morality, and the bar that sets the standard for human behavior drops lower and lower, allowing us to satiate our evil indulgences, obeying the flesh in its lusts. You are dead wrong about moral relativism being in harmony with the whole of society. It is the anti-society. We are becoming less human and more animal, and yet our relationships are becoming more mechanical than organic, but that's another story.
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby Lance_Iguana on Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:19 am

azlan88 wrote:Lance, look around you. Morality is all but dead.
No morality isn't dead, it can't die. Morality is the ethical way people interact with each other. People still have morals, but nobody has the exact same morals.
Everything is completely different from the way it used to be.
Time dosen't stand still Azlan. The more knowledge people gain, the more they question.
People used to be so uptight about sex that women's skirts hung at their ankles. Now they're just above women's crotches, indicating a change in the way people view sex.
Azlan you've seen a few people dress like this, but that dosen't mean as a whole people dress more provokativly. Yes, people are more open about sex. Thats because people understand it better, and more information is available. We no longer live in a society that beleives oral sex causes infirtility, or that women don't enjoy sex. The Misconceptions are no longer there.
I'm not saying that high skirts are "immoral." I'm just using an example of how the mindset has changed.
Wich gose back to, more knowledge more questions and adaptation.
Look at violence, too. We don't have a Roman arena, but we have bloody horror movies and video games to satisfy people's lust for blood (I'm not condemning electronics).
The big problem here though is that these people aren't real. No damage is being done. People go to horror movies to either be scared or have a good time. People play videogames because it fullfills a fantasy in a way that is not possible in real life without consiquences. I like left 4 dead 1 and 2. Its fantasy. Its nice being able to come home after a stressful day at college or work and destroy me some zombies.
And how can we forget the F-bombs that we throw around?
The F word is one in teh line of many words used in a vulgur fasion. Of all things to complain about, a word seems really trivial.
My point is that we live in a permissive society in which few have the courage to judge others on the basis of morality,
I'm sorry this is outright false. I think you are confusing your morality with others morality. People aren't judging others by your standards, so you claim society has no morals.
and the bar that sets the standard for human behavior drops lower and lower, allowing us to satiate our evil indulgences, obeying the flesh in its lusts.
This is your morality seeping through again, and not based on teh whole.
You are dead wrong about moral relativism being in harmony with the whole of society. It is the anti-society.
No its that it dosen't agree with your society.
We are becoming less human and more animal, and yet our relationships are becoming more mechanical than organic, but that's another story.

We can't become less human. We are humans azlan. I also don't get what you mean mechanical and organic.

IF you are trying to say that humans are moving away from God, just say so.
Tell me what has become of my rights
Am I invisible because you ignore me?
Your proclamation promised me free liberty, now
I'm tired of bein' the victim of shame
They're throwing me in a class with a bad name
I can't believe this is the land from which I came
You know I do really hate to say it
The government don't wanna see
But if Roosevelt was livin'
He wouldn't let this be, no, no
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby jasoncran on Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:22 am

so a doctor choking a fetus that survived an abortion isnt ok, but he can suck the partial birth abortion
is ok and acceptable. weird logic that modern morals we have.

i miss the old days were porn was done in secret ,as well it was perverse, and tv wasnt nowhere near as hedonistics as it is now.

azlan ravis zacharias said the same society cant function with moral relativism.
Silence, I kill you
your defenses have been anlaylised and found to be inferior, surrender, you will be assilimated
gravity works cause of evolution
you may doubt god, but not darwin.
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby azlan88 on Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:57 am

Lance, I don't understand what you mean by "the whole." Can you clarify? That said, let me ask you this. is it okay for a white man to hold a black man as a slave? And is it okay for nazis to treat Jews as non-persons?
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby Armor of God on Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:26 pm

I keep coming back to this point but one of the main causes of this decay in our society has been due to the liberalism that is infecting the church. The same secular humanist viewpoints the atheists subscribe to is also present in liberal theology. They deny the supernatural and put all morality on a sliding scale to suit their own taste. Under that system, everything is acceptable and it becomes a problem of pushing the envelope to an ever increasing level of immorality.

Since WWII the disease of liberalism in our society has taken root. Have we become so depraved as a nation that we have passed the point of no return? Probably, but there is still hope for pockets of revival and getting people to know Jesus Christ and his saving power. That is what we should be focusing our efforts on. The ship has hit the iceberg, it's sinking, and we need to prepare as many survivors as possible.

God is very patient but every day that goes by this nation is one step closer to His judgment.
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. Proverbs 3:5-6
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby Lance_Iguana on Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:42 pm

azlan88 wrote:Lance, I don't understand what you mean by "the whole."
Society. Before this goese any further, i dont' agree with universal realativism.
Can you clarify? That said, let me ask you this. is it okay for a white man to hold a black man as a slave?
NO, because you violate a person's right to life liberty and pursuit of happines.
And is it okay for nazis to treat Jews as non-persons?
Same as slavery, I'm actually curious as to how that relates to anything I said though. Especially since my entire stance here has been that everyperson deserves basic human rights, and non damaging to society beliefs should not be hindered.
Tell me what has become of my rights
Am I invisible because you ignore me?
Your proclamation promised me free liberty, now
I'm tired of bein' the victim of shame
They're throwing me in a class with a bad name
I can't believe this is the land from which I came
You know I do really hate to say it
The government don't wanna see
But if Roosevelt was livin'
He wouldn't let this be, no, no
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Lance_Iguana
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby azlan88 on Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:46 pm

Okay, so we are in agreement that there is a universal, objective morality that should be adhered to, then? Meaning that morality isn't just confined to any one person' point of view?
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Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby Lance_Iguana on Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:50 pm

Armor of God wrote:Since WWII the disease of liberalism in our society has taken root. .

Lets name some things that happened since WW2.

Pre - FDR helped lead us out of the biggest Sock market dip in our history, and led us into a war that put us at the top of the world lader of superpowers.

Post - End of segrigation against Blacks, Women's rights movement, Protests against our involvment in non threatening countries, Homosexuals no lonter castrated or jailed for being gay, Ronald Reagan, Fall of the Berlin Wall,The formation of the UN. Martin Luther King Jr., Harvey Milk, Malcom X, and Turring.



Yep thats the sings of a crumbling nation, Racial, sexual, and gender equality in an ecconomy thats stable with people who question their government with a compitent president and ties to other nations that think the same.

Yep, sounds like Hell.
Tell me what has become of my rights
Am I invisible because you ignore me?
Your proclamation promised me free liberty, now
I'm tired of bein' the victim of shame
They're throwing me in a class with a bad name
I can't believe this is the land from which I came
You know I do really hate to say it
The government don't wanna see
But if Roosevelt was livin'
He wouldn't let this be, no, no
User avatar
Lance_Iguana
Christian Forum Pro
 
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:13 pm

Re: The Closing of the American Mind

Postby Lance_Iguana on Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:52 pm

azlan88 wrote:Okay, so we are in agreement that there is a universal, objective morality that should be adhered to, then? Meaning that morality isn't just confined to any one person' point of view?
Rights aren't morality. Why people deserve what I said would be the moral side.


Why do black people deserve to have the same rights as a white person? Why dose a women have the right to speak for herself? Why do religous groups deserve not to be put to death?


Those are the questions that form our morality, and are on a personal level.
Tell me what has become of my rights
Am I invisible because you ignore me?
Your proclamation promised me free liberty, now
I'm tired of bein' the victim of shame
They're throwing me in a class with a bad name
I can't believe this is the land from which I came
You know I do really hate to say it
The government don't wanna see
But if Roosevelt was livin'
He wouldn't let this be, no, no
User avatar
Lance_Iguana
Christian Forum Pro
 
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:13 pm

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