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  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

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  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

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Ah, so intellectual assent to the gospel is important to you. Okay, but is that absolutely necessary for faith to exist? My answer - no, faith is beyond such a requirement.


No. Understanding the Gospel is.


We must hear and obey the Gospel to be saved.



How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:14-16



again



Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23



How can a baby obey the Gospel before they have the ability to speak words or understand them?





JLB
 
So you don't believe "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," - Romans 3:23b (NIV).
i believe your off bases a baby a child with out understanding that dies will not go to hell. iam dine with your dogmatic belief
 
No. Understanding the Gospel is.


We must hear and obey the Gospel to be saved.



How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:14-16



again



Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23



How can a baby obey the Gospel before they have the ability to speak words or understand them?





JLB

If you're saying that a person must do something to gain salvation, that's salvation by works and I reject that notion. What is required to be saved is faith, and faith is a gift from God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Ah, so intellectual assent to the gospel is important to you. Okay, but is that absolutely necessary for faith to exist? My answer - no, faith is beyond such a requirement.



Here is what the word “hear” means in the verse I quoted.


  • And how shall they hear without a preacher?


Hear -

The KJV translates Strong's G191 in the following manner: hear (418x), hearken (6x), give audience (3x), hearer (2x), miscellaneous (8x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
  2. to hear
    1. to attend to, consider what is or has been said
    2. to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
  3. to hear something
    1. to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
    2. to get by hearing learn
    3. a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
    4. to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
    5. to comprehend, to understand
 
Here is what the word “hear” means in the verse I quoted.


  • And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Hear -

The KJV translates Strong's G191 in the following manner: hear (418x), hearken (6x), give audience (3x), hearer (2x), miscellaneous (8x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
  2. to hear
    1. to attend to, consider what is or has been said
    2. to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
  3. to hear something
    1. to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
    2. to get by hearing learn
    3. a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
    4. to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
    5. to comprehend, to understand

Faith comes through hearing the Word of God. The Word of God is a means God uses to give faith to people. Are infants incapable of hearing it?
 
Faith comes through hearing the Word of God. The Word of God is a means God uses to give faith to people. Are infants incapable of hearing it?


No, which is why they are innocent, not knowing good from evil.



JLB
 
I disagree. I believe all unsaved babies go to hell. We're all conceived in sin. Where else should a sinner go.
If that's what you believe, it will not agree with our statement of faith.

If you would like to discuss the verse your speaking of, I would be more than happy to go deeper into those passages with you.
 
No, which is why they are innocent, not knowing good from evil.



JLB
JLB ,
Respectfully, I would ask that you step down from this conversation and let me work with him.

You and I are in agreement, and I do not want these types of discussions to permeate the board or drag out into hundreds of pages.

It's an easy discussion. One that can be shown quickly without spinning out of control.
 
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JLB ,
Respectfully, I would ask that you step down from this conversation and let me work with him.

You and I are in agreement, and I do not want these types of discussions to permeate the board or drag out into hundreds of pages.

It's an easy discussion. One that can be shown quickly without spinning out of control.


Yes sir.
 
No, which is why they are innocent, not knowing good from evil.



JLB

I disagree. Where in the Bible do you read that infants are innocent? The Scriptures say that all have sinned. All without Christ will be condemned. All.
 
I disagree. Where in the Bible do you read that infants are innocent? The Scriptures say that all have sinned. All without Christ will be condemned. All.


I’ll let Jeff explain it to you.


Thanks. JLB
 
If that's what you believe, it will not agree with our statement of faith.

If you would like to discuss the verse your speaking of, I would be more than happy to go deeper into those passages with you.

How does what I've said conflict with the site's statement of faith?
 
Let's start with Psalm 51 which you lead off with. Can you tell me what the context of this Psalm is? In other words, what prompted the Prophet David to say such things?

I'll be happy to answer your question to me once you answer mine to you.
 
Have you read our Statement of Faith?

We support the biblical teaching that all people are born with inherited sin and are lost eternally. They can be saved through repentance, forgiveness and faith in Jesus Christ's death (atonement) and resurrection. No human merit or performance earns salvation. For children and the mentally challenged, they are covered by Jesus’ teaching, 'The kingdom of heaven belongs to people like them" (Matt 19:14 NIRV). Furthermore, We believe children and those with mental incapabilities who have no knowledge of good and evil, being innocent in the eyes of God, will be with Him if they should die in this state. (Deuteronomy 1:39) Those who have not heard the gospel, 'have no excuse’ before God because they have not pursued the evidence for God in creation (Rom 1:18—24a NIRV).

That doesn't really agree with your statement on infants going to hell, unless I misunderstood you. If you would like to qualify your previous remark, I'd be interested in hearing it.
 
Have you read our Statement of Faith?

We support the biblical teaching that all people are born with inherited sin and are lost eternally. They can be saved through repentance, forgiveness and faith in Jesus Christ's death (atonement) and resurrection. No human merit or performance earns salvation. For children and the mentally challenged, they are covered by Jesus’ teaching, 'The kingdom of heaven belongs to people like them" (Matt 19:14 NIRV). Furthermore, We believe children and those with mental incapabilities who have no knowledge of good and evil, being innocent in the eyes of God, will be with Him if they should die in this state. (Deuteronomy 1:39) Those who have not heard the gospel, 'have no excuse’ before God because they have not pursued the evidence for God in creation (Rom 1:18—24a NIRV).

That doesn't really agree with your statement on infants going to hell, unless I misunderstood you. If you would like to qualify your previous remark, I'd be interested in hearing it.

The site's statement of faith is problematic in that it seems to contradict itself. What I've shared is certainly in keeping with, "ALL people are born with inherited sin and are lost eternally." (New emphasis mine.)
 
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