Adam Was Not Deceived, But Eve Was...

[Edward]

1 Timothy 2:14

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression./(NIV)

Ok, now we all know this, and even perhaps heard the joke, where would we be now if Adam had said no to eating the fruit? Cute, but in all seriousness, why did Adam choose to join Eve in her transgression and eat the fruit with her?



Have you ever considered this? Now, before the transgression, Adam & Eve walked with God. How significant is this? Perhaps they were not even subject to the 4 dimensions as we know them? They were closer to God than any is now, or they after the transgression. A part of them died when they transgressed. Death entered the world. What all did they lose? How Godly were they?

Certainly Adam & Eve were Man & Wife. Certainly they loved each other and had a marriage that was Godly, and blessed by God. So having walked with God, is it reasonable to assume that they were aware of the model of marriage that is given us in Ephesians 5?

Men who are knowledgeable in the scriptures have certainly quoted the verses to their Wives out of Ephesians 5 that the woman is subject to the Husband in all things. Ephesians 5: 22-24

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing./(NIV)

BUT! Let's not stop there, shall we? Let's read the next verse also!

Ephesians 5:25 (!)

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;/(NIV)

Could it be, that Adam loved his Wife so much...that he (having not yet transgressed!)...loved Eve so much, that he gave himself for her, unto death (!), and chose to join her in her transgression, just as Christ gave himself for the church?! Whoa. What a thought.

Now because Adam gave himself for Eve, and knowledgeably chose to join her in her transgression, rather than to go on without her, there were offspring from which the deliverer came, from which redemption was paid for, by which they were saved. This probably wouldn't have happened if Adam had not chose to take of the fruit with her and join her in her predicament!

Show of hands. How many of you guys, love your Wife THAT much? (Rhetorical). This is the model of marriage for us. He loved her so much, that he gave his life for her, that she might be saved?

An interesting conjecture, for sure. Comments?

 

[tim-from-pa]

Noble thoughts, but Adam was just a dud. He disobeyed deliberately whereas the woman was tricked, and probably would not have been so easily had Adam done his thing to keep her in the right path. This is why Adam got the brunt of the punishment when everyone asks why this is so since Eve is the first one who took the fruit.

Had Adam sacrificed his life for his wife (church), he would have done so without eating the fruit, so taking the punishment along with her is not an indication of love, but tomfoolery since it did not redeem her from being subject and sold to the devil.

 

[Edward]

Had Adam sacrificed his life for his wife (church), he would have done so without eating the fruit,

How would that have even been possible?

 

[Pizzaguy]

Were Adam and Eve real people? I mean, were they just like us in every way?
I remain unconvinced.

Perhaps they were not even subject to the 4 dimensions as we know them?

Well, the fact that they walked with God kinda tells me that they were not:

• People like us.

• Bound by space and time like we are.

I suspect that their being "driven out of Eden" was more than God walking them to the gate and telling them to hit the road!
But I DO know this: The story of Adam and Eve makes it clear to me: God's will has not been done for virtually all of man's time on earth.
His will is not done today, and it wasn't done back then.

Sometimes, I have a problem with just why this is so... and often wish He'd set things up differently.

Meanwhile, my sister's M.S. seems to be carrying out it's will just fine.
Evil carries out it's will - seemingly very effectively. (Abortion, rape, murder, terrorism go on....)

 

[Deborah13]

Yeah, Adam did not give himself for her. First thing he did was sell her down the river, he blamed her and GOD for what he did.

The man, as the head, is actually her protection even if she transgresses. Kind of like Christ as the head of the body is our Mediator. Eve was part of Adam's body, they were one.
So if Adam were doing his job he would have asked God to forgive her.

Eve's transgression was not that she ate the fruit (God never spoke to her) it was that she was not submissive to her husband.

Adam sinned against God.

Just my version....

 

[Edward]

Tough crowd in here tonight, lol.

Were Adam and Eve real people? I mean, were they just like us in every way?
I remain unconvinced.

Perhaps they were not even subject to the 4 dimensions as we know them?
Well, the fact that they walked with God kinda tells me that they were not:
People like us.
Bound by space and time like we are.

I suspect that their being "driven out of Eden" was more than God walking them to the gate and telling them to hit the road!

This makes so much sense. This is how I tend to believe. Geez, for all we know, the didn't even have flesh bodies yet before the fall. Wasn't there so hints in scripture that they were clothed with light before the fall? Something like that rings a bell in me, but I can't put my finger on it.

Wouldn't you ladies like to think that the Husband loved his Wife so much that he laid down his life for her? It is sort've plausible, isn't it?

whoops, gotta go for now...

 

[clark thompson]

Christ did the same for us. Jesus showed love enough to fall so we could be together.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Had Adam sacrificed his life for his wife (church), he would have done so without eating the fruit,

How would that have even been possible?

I don't know, but I do know that whatever he did would have been the same as Christ. Had he taken of the other tree of life would have been a new creation and a spiritual son of God, and in effect the same. Then we'd be looking to Adam instead of Christ (that being the incarnation). That's how I see it.

 

[Vaccine]

Show of hands. How many of you guys, love your Wife THAT much? (Rhetorical)...He loved her so much, that he gave his life for her, that she might be saved?

{Rhetorically raises hand}
It is a noble thought, turns out that's not exactly how it happened, but it would have been a noble thought. Adam did say "This is how it is meant to be!" when he saw Eve. I suspect there is a lot to learn about relationships from the garden of eden.

 

[Edward]

I suspect there is a lot to learn about relationships from the garden of eden.

I agree with this, sort of how I began to think that maybe Adam ate the fruit out of love for Eve.

 

[stovebolts]

Show of hands. How many of you guys, love your Wife THAT much? (Rhetorical). This is the model of marriage for us. He loved her so much, that he gave his life for her, that she might be saved?

How was she saved?.... I'm still trying to wrap my mind around that.

If I saw my wife smoking crack, I wouldn't be saving her if I started smoking crack too and I sure wouldn't be doing her any favors by dying because of my crack addiction.

Death didn't enter into the world through Eve because Eve was beguiled. Death and sin entered through Adam, because Adam willfully disobeyed. ( Romans 5:12 ) There is a difference between sin's committed in ignorance or by one being beguiled and sins committed by willful disobedience. In other words, it's one thing to be tricked and a whole other thing to do something you know and understand to be wrong.

1Corintians 15:22 says, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

[Kaliani]

When he ate the fruit, Adam took a step away from Eve, not towards her.

It baffles me when good men think that their absence or even their death (!) is a gift to their women, more so than their presence, their health and their safety.

 

[handy]

Tough crowd in here tonight, lol.

Were Adam and Eve real people? I mean, were they just like us in every way?
I remain unconvinced.

Perhaps they were not even subject to the 4 dimensions as we know them?
Well, the fact that they walked with God kinda tells me that they were not:
People like us.
Bound by space and time like we are.

I suspect that their being "driven out of Eden" was more than God walking them to the gate and telling them to hit the road!

This makes so much sense. This is how I tend to believe. Geez, for all we know, the didn't even have flesh bodies yet before the fall. Wasn't there so hints in scripture that they were clothed with light before the fall? Something like that rings a bell in me, but I can't put my finger on it.

Wouldn't you ladies like to think that the Husband loved his Wife so much that he laid down his life for her? It is sort've plausible, isn't it?

whoops, gotta go for now...

I believe that Adam and Eve were very much flesh and blood before the fall. God formed Adam from dirt, He used a rib from Adam to form Eve. He planted a garden and gave them the fruit of it for food. He told them to procreate. Every indication of the story is that they were flesh and blood people... but wholly innocent of all sin, thus no need of any covering. It was because of sin that they sought to be covered and it's spiritually significant that God found their own attempts at covering to be inadequate and that a death of an animal was necessary for proper coverings. Their clothing signified the first blood sacrifice.

I think another significant feature of the story is that Adam and Eve did not eat of the Tree of Life. They could have. There was no commandment not to. But, they didn't. The main reason why they had to leave the Garden was so that they could not eat of that tree. It's all conjecture, because we are not told, but I would imagine that since there was no death in the world, the Tree of Life was something meaningless to them. Something taken completely for granted. It could have remained meaningless had they not sinned and death entered in. But, the the Tree of Life would have been a curse to them had they eaten of it after they sinned. God always planned on their salvation, but only after their sin was dealt with... for them, via the sacrifices that somewhere was shown to them and they taught their son's to observe as well.

[MENTION=52402]Pizzaguy[/MENTION] Whether or not the story is history or metaphor, I do think that it's meant for us to understand that Adam and Eve were flesh and blood people. But, Revelation 22 also shows the Tree of Life... and this is at the time where again, God is in full communion with His people. God's intention was that we would walk and talk with Him... and one day we shall.

Does this answer the question as to why evil can prevail so easily in this world? Not really... other than the world is cursed and all the world suffers because of it.

 

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=4376]handy[/MENTION] the tree of life is described differently in revalation 22.

 

[Edward]

How was she saved?.... I'm still trying to wrap my mind around that.

If I saw my wife smoking crack, I wouldn't be saving her if I started smoking crack too and I sure wouldn't be doing her any favors by dying because of my crack addiction.

Stovebolts, come on brother ease up a little. This is a pretty light hearted thread and I'm certainly not trying to carve anything into stone. I'm just tossing around the question of what could have possibly been in Adams heart as he knowingly ate the fruit without being deceived. Could it have been out of love for his wife is all I'm conjecturing. Forgive me brother, but your crack cocaine analogy is a poor analogy at best and is simply far out there from where the thread is. Wow!

Let's keep it light, shall we please, brothers and sisters? Adam knowingly transgressed after he found out that Eve did. What do you think may have been going through his head or his heart to make that decision?

When he ate the fruit, Adam took a step away from Eve, not towards her.

I'm not sure that I'm following you on this thought sister. Could you expound on that thought a little?

It baffles me when good men think that their absence or even their death (!) is a gift to their women, more so than their presence, their health and their safety.

I understand the thought behind this for sure, and I'm in no hurry to go and die to prove something to a woman. That I would die in order that my wife could live in an extreme life & death situation would be an extreme situation only and certainly not something to be desired, perhaps necessary.

I believe that Adam and Eve were very much flesh and blood before the fall. God formed Adam from dirt, He used a rib from Adam to form Eve. He planted a garden and gave them the fruit of it for food. He told them to procreate. Every indication of the story is that they were flesh and blood people... but wholly innocent of all sin, thus no need of any covering. It was because of sin that they sought to be covered and it's spiritually significant that God found their own attempts at covering to be inadequate and that a death of an animal was necessary for proper coverings.

I hear you. This is heavily implied in scripture and my general belief of such matters for sure. I'm just wondering about Adams motives, and tossing a few conjectures out there as possibilities, admittedly far reaching, and just exploring for fun.

 

[handy]

I'm just wondering about Adams motives, and tossing a few conjectures out there as possibilities, admittedly far reaching, and just exploring for fun.

It is an interesting concept... that Adam was motivated by love for Eve... but I don't think that's what was motivating Adam. First of all, because had pure love for Eve been his motivation, he would have been spurred to seek out the Lord to see what the Lord could do. Remember, the key here is that Adam was not deceived. Plus, he walked and talked with God on a daily basis. Surely, knowing the truth, believing the truth... had he been motivated by love for Eve, his first thoughts would have been to take her to the Lord.

The serpent used the oldest and most effective method of deception for his lie to Eve... to wrap the lie with the truth. The truth was that the fruit would cause them to know both good and evil and that if they ate of it, they would die. The serpent reiterated the truth part, they would know good and evil... but lied about the dying part. Eve believed the lie, that they would surly not die. Adam wasn't fooled, but ate of it anyway. Considering all of this, I believe his motive for doing so was to know both good and evil....to be like God. Which would explain why he didn't seek out God after Eve ate the fruit...and also why he threw her under the bus as [MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION] pointed out.

 

[handy]

[MENTION=4376]handy[/MENTION] the tree of life is described differently in revalation 22.

How was the tree of life described in Genesis... what are the differences?

 

[jasoncran]

very little in genesis, but the book of the revalation

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

the leaves would be eaten but notice the number of the fruits.

 

[Kaliani]

[MENTION=90700]Edward[/MENTION],

What I mean is, Eve was in trouble and needed Adam, yes, but not as a co-conspirator.

He could've interceded for her before God, à la Jesus Christ for mankind. But I think, if he'd merely hurled away the fruit, even as she held it out to him, and just held her in his arms, that would've shown much more love and availability on his part.

Anyway, as to his inner motives? Eve was going to gain new knowledge and glamorous 'godlike' status, wasn't she? Adam may have had a competitive streak.

 

[Pizzaguy]

[MENTION=90700]Edward[/MENTION],

But I think, if he'd merely hurled away the fruit, even as she held it out to him, and just held her in his arms, that would've shown much more love and availability on his part.

If we are to believe that these two people were created as the first two adults, thrown together by God Himself, and placed into the Garden of Eden - how do we manage to attribute to them every thought, action, emotion and life experience WE have today? You write your post as if he was just another husband - yet, he was the FIRST husband. Just how extensive are we to believe God's guidance was?

This is my problem with all of the literal interpretation of the Bible - in particular, the old testament, a book LOADED with symbolic and allegorical verses.