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Bible Study BLASPHEMY of the HOLY SPIRIT = The Unpardonable Sin??

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HeIsRisen2018

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Whatever sin we feel sorrow for,,,God will forgive.
And, yes, unfortunately the church we go to will affect us in some way. What churches should be doing is showing us the love of God so that we could love Him back and WANT to follow as disciples of His.....
By force, nothing seems to work, either in "religion" or anything else in life.




Two quick things while I'm thinking about it since with my sinus issues sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind (and I already lost my marbles so I don't need that happening as well lol!) First of all I hope that this doesn't count as OSAS, and two,.. I don't really think of myself as truly saved when I was a kid because if I was, I probably wouldn't have left my faith.
 

Boaz

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Hi B,
Been busy...can't remember if I answered this.

The above is true, but I'd like to speak to the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit and HOW that is different from speaking badly about the Father or the Son.

The Father is the creator and we owe the entire universe and everything in it to Him...It is HE that thought to make this planet for our habitation and to make Himself be known to us.

The Son is the Word of God...He brought everything into existence as the Father had the thoughts...HE is the one that was spoken of from the beginning accounting to Him the forgiveness of sins of the whole world and who would make accessible the doors of heaven to those that would accept God's conditions.

The Holy Spirit, OTOH, is the Person of the Trinity that is responsible for convincing us of our sins, letting us see the sinner we are and it is up to Him to guide us into life everlasting. If we speak against the very person that is supposed to be allowing us to see our sin...then how would we ever become aware of it?

This is my understanding...I'm sure there's more.


B,
You've answered your own question much better than I have!
:thumbsup
But did it answer yours?:lol
 

wondering

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Two quick things while I'm thinking about it since with my sinus issues sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind (and I already lost my marbles so I don't need that happening as well lol!) First of all I hope that this doesn't count as OSAS, and two,.. I don't really think of myself as truly saved when I was a kid because if I was, I probably wouldn't have left my faith.
I believe you were saved as a child.
Only God can know if you acted as the Prodigal Son did. (he left home).
However, you did come back, and, as the Prodigal Son,,,
YOU also have come to life again.
 

wondering

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But did it answer yours?:lol
Acutally, as I read on, I found a post of yours, which I hope I "liked" that explained why blaspheming the Holy Spirit is different that that of Father or Son.
I also attempted to explain this, but I don't find it easy and it was nice to read your post re this.
:yes
 

Boaz

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Acutally, as I read on, I found a post of yours, which I hope I "liked" that explained why blaspheming the Holy Spirit is different that that of Father or Son.
I also attempted to explain this, but I don't find it easy and it was nice to read your post re this.
:yes
It is hard to explain. Trying to find the right words---I often use ambiguous ones I think. Word that can be used more than one way. FHG and I were having that difficulty with the word enlightened awhile back. LOL so if it made sense to you, I am thankful.
 

wondering

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OSAS vs OSNAS is no longer allowed to be discussed in the forums any longer. You can read the scrolling message at the top of the page.

Romans 1:28 it is God that turns them over to a reprobate mind as they no longer retain God in their knowledge as for whatever reason they have allowed them self to come to a place of pure hatred and rejection as they curse (speak evil) against the Holy Spirit which is the unpardonable sin that will never be forgiven.

Another good scripture is Matthew 13:14, 15 and Rev 3:15, 16 as their heart has become dull and their ears can barely hear and their eyes they have closed as they have become lukewarm and hardened their heart and God will spew them out of His mouth.

If one is Spiritually maturing being led and taught by the Holy Spirit they keep moving forward in the Holy Spirit who gives us understanding and wisdom of all God wants us to learn as we are enlightened into all truths. These are the ones who have tasted and know that the Lord is good and hear the voice of the Master.
I know about the OSAS prohibition. That's what I said. We won't discuss it. Just pointing out WHY we have reached different interpretation of the U.S.
Here is what I believe about Romans 1:28. Paul is not talking about Christians. He is talking about ALL mankind after the fall. He states that everyone ever born or will be born knows of God's existence because it is evident in the creation, the natural world. In the beauty, the perfection, the faithfulness of days seasons and complexity; in the DESIGN. But as fallen people we choose to ignore that so He turned us over to this reprobate mind, which of course, left to its own devices, becomes ever more perverted. There really is no such thing as an atheist. We all know at some level God exists, we are denyers. There is no salvation message in God's revelation of Himself in nature, only His existence and attributes. That revelation comes through history etc. In His Word. That particular passage in Romans has nothing to do with Christian maturity or lack of it. Nothing to do with Christians at all, other than we are in need of a Savior.
Therefore, it is possible, just a bit possible, that the other scriptures you reference as being about Christian maturity, might be a slight shade off the mark. Christian maturity of course is very important and is dealt with in the Bible.
But I did not get a clear answer, May be my own vision problem about whether or not committing the U.S. by a Christian would be a casting out of the Holy Spirit by the enemy.
[/QUOTE]
Two points since I really like Romans 1:19-20 and refer to it often.

1. Re your last paragraph:
I do not believe the enemy can cast out the Holy Spirit.
THIS is blaspheming the Holy Spirit! (not that you're doing this).
God is stronger than satan and would not allow him to cast out the Holy Spirit from a believer.

Also this refers to
Romans 8:35
35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?


Satan would be a principality....
Nothing can separate us from God...(except ourselves but no need to reply to this since I know what you believe).


2. Romans 1:19-20

In verse 16 Paul is telling the Romans that NOW EVERYONE CAN COME TO GOD IN THIS SAME WAY (through Jesus).

Then he goes on to say how God has always revealed Himself to man and He has always been angered by those that pushed Him away because HE is the truth.

Since the beginning of time God has put the knowledge of His existence into the hearts of men through the things created so that at the final judgement no one will have an excuse. IOW,,, it has ALWAYS been possible to be saved through belief in God.
 

wondering

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It's actually hubby that is Doctoring right now as he has blockage in his legs and next Wed will go see a cardiologist. We are concerned, but gave it to God.

As per your question I hope this answer's it.

The enemy (Satan) has no power or authority over the Holy Spirit just like all of us have no power and authority over the Spirit, but the enemy can cause great devastation in a Christians life that is so horrendous that it can cause them to lose total faith and trust in God as they speak evil against His Holy Spirit.

This might help us understand what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is all about in a simpler understanding. It's a conscious and hardened opposition to the truth because the Spirit is truth. Conscious and hardened resistance to the truth leads man away from humility and repentance and without repentance there can be no forgiveness. Because of defiance they refuse to let the Holy Spirit speak to them. The only unpardonable sin is refusing to let God pardon you.

If a house be divided against itself that house cannot stand as sin and righteousness can not coexist in the house of God as the Temple of God is within us.
Thanks for pointing out the above highlighted....
It's important to understand this so that IF it does happen to us, we can be prepared for the battle.
 

wondering

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The Bible is filled with admonitions to repent and be saved ... Christians (the Saved or Elect or those predestined for Glorification) hear and obey; those who do not hear and obey the call to repent are not Christians.

The Bible is filled with warnings of “do not be deceived” and those empowered by the Holy Spirit to hear and obey (Christians) will heed the warnings and will not be deceived; those who do not hear and obey the warnings are not Christians.
A,,,,I have to agree with JLB.
The warnings about being deceived are TO Chrisitans,,,NOT to those that did not hear the word or accept the word.

Your above explanation does not reconcile with scripture.
 

Allen Wynne

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Paul said, "if it were possible, he would give up his own salvation for the sake of his people".
He obviously knew it was not possible.
Why is that?
 

wondering

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No, I am saying that the Gospel is proclaimed for the benefit of those that will obey it and is of no value to those that HEAR it and ignore it ... in EXACTLY the same way, the Warning in the Bible are written for the benefit of those that read and heed them, but the warnings are of no value to those without “ears to hear”.

That is why both comments were presented in a single post, even though you have chosen to respond to each as if the other did not exist.
Both comments were presented in a single post,,,but one is correct and the other does not seem to be, as I understand scripture.

The gospel is proclaimed for the benefit of everyone who comes within hearing distance of it.

Then there will be those that accept it and obey it....
You're right in that it will be of no value to those that hear it and ignore it.

BUT NOT in EXACTLY the same way, as you put it...
are the warnings in the bible about not being deceived for those without having ears to hear....

They are for Christians.

2 Corinthians 11:3 is a perfect example
3But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.

As Eve was deceived so YOUR MINDS....will be led astray...

Unbelievers do not need to be led astray...they already are lost.
 

Boaz

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I know about the OSAS prohibition. That's what I said. We won't discuss it. Just pointing out WHY we have reached different interpretation of the U.S.
Here is what I believe about Romans 1:28. Paul is not talking about Christians. He is talking about ALL mankind after the fall. He states that everyone ever born or will be born knows of God's existence because it is evident in the creation, the natural world. In the beauty, the perfection, the faithfulness of days seasons and complexity; in the DESIGN. But as fallen people we choose to ignore that so He turned us over to this reprobate mind, which of course, left to its own devices, becomes ever more perverted. There really is no such thing as an atheist. We all know at some level God exists, we are denyers. There is no salvation message in God's revelation of Himself in nature, only His existence and attributes. That revelation comes through history etc. In His Word. That particular passage in Romans has nothing to do with Christian maturity or lack of it. Nothing to do with Christians at all, other than we are in need of a Savior.
Therefore, it is possible, just a bit possible, that the other scriptures you reference as being about Christian maturity, might be a slight shade off the mark. Christian maturity of course is very important and is dealt with in the Bible.
But I did not get a clear answer, May be my own vision problem about whether or not committing the U.S. by a Christian would be a casting out of the Holy Spirit by the enemy.
Two points since I really like Romans 1:19-20 and refer to it often.

1. Re your last paragraph:
I do not believe the enemy can cast out the Holy Spirit.
THIS is blaspheming the Holy Spirit! (not that you're doing this).
God is stronger than satan and would not allow him to cast out the Holy Spirit from a believer.

Also this refers to
Romans 8:35
35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?


Satan would be a principality....
Nothing can separate us from God...(except ourselves but no need to reply to this since I know what you believe).


2. Romans 1:19-20

In verse 16 Paul is telling the Romans that NOW EVERYONE CAN COME TO GOD IN THIS SAME WAY (through Jesus).

Then he goes on to say how God has always revealed Himself to man and He has always been angered by those that pushed Him away because HE is the truth.

Since the beginning of time God has put the knowledge of His existence into the hearts of men through the things created so that at the final judgement no one will have an excuse. IOW,,, it has ALWAYS been possible to be saved through belief in God.
[/QUOTE]
Actually it was a bit scary even typing that about the enemy and the Holy Spirit and forgot to add which we know is impossible. But I knew God knows I'm merely posing a question and thankfully you do too. To me, and this is just me, not even anything I have learned from ANY theology, that if a Christian can commit the U.S. that is what in effect would be happening since the Holy Spirit indwells US, and the enemy is an outsider. But I suppose since I don't think they can commit this sin, and that is why they can't, and I fully understand why others think they can, it is a mute point.
 

wondering

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Paul said, "if it were possible, he would give up his own salvation for the sake of his people".
He obviously knew it was not possible.
Why is that?
You talkin' to me?
Is it possible for one man to give us his salvation for some other people?
No.

We must each accept Jesus individually.

This is what Paul meant...
(Romans 9:3)
 
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wondering

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Two points since I really like Romans 1:19-20 and refer to it often.

1. Re your last paragraph:
I do not believe the enemy can cast out the Holy Spirit.
THIS is blaspheming the Holy Spirit! (not that you're doing this).
God is stronger than satan and would not allow him to cast out the Holy Spirit from a believer.

Also this refers to
Romans 8:35
35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?


Satan would be a principality....
Nothing can separate us from God...(except ourselves but no need to reply to this since I know what you believe).


2. Romans 1:19-20

In verse 16 Paul is telling the Romans that NOW EVERYONE CAN COME TO GOD IN THIS SAME WAY (through Jesus).

Then he goes on to say how God has always revealed Himself to man and He has always been angered by those that pushed Him away because HE is the truth.

Since the beginning of time God has put the knowledge of His existence into the hearts of men through the things created so that at the final judgement no one will have an excuse. IOW,,, it has ALWAYS been possible to be saved through belief in God.
Actually it was a bit scary even typing that about the enemy and the Holy Spirit and forgot to add which we know is impossible. But I knew God knows I'm merely posing a question and thankfully you do too. To me, and this is just me, not even anything I have learned from ANY theology, that if a Christian can commit the U.S. that is what in effect would be happening since the Holy Spirit indwells US, and the enemy is an outsider. But I suppose since I don't think they can commit this sin, and that is why they can't, and I fully understand why others think they can, it is a mute point.
I agree with you.
I do not believe a Christian can commit the U.S.
 

JLB

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He DOES become saved by believing the Gospel.
Ok. I agree.

But that is not what you said in post 88.

Here’s your quote -

I believe you must be saved (reborn, born again) in order to believe.


JLB
 

atpollard

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Sorry hit wrong button. I wasn't done.
In light of that is it possible that when the Bible says believe and you will be saved, it is stating the requirement of salvation, belief, meaning IF you believe you ARE saved, rather than making request for them to believe, or explaining the ORDER of salvation?
I agree, but I am 100% monergistic (God does all of the work in saving people) and a 5 point Calvinist (a Particular Baptist, like the early Pilgrims and Charles Spurgeon, to be exact).
 

JLB

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I agree with you.
I do not believe a Christian can commit the U.S.
I disagree.

Personally I believe John MacAuther has blasphemed the Holy Spirit many times, so much so, his heart has waxed hard, seared as with a hot iron that he freely does it without hesitation.

Here is a sermon of his where he is teaching on this subject, “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit”, where he goes down a list of things such as speaking in tongues, dreams, visions.... attributing all to demons.

He is a cessationist and a hard core Calvinist,

He openly says anyone who has these spiritual experiences is operating by demons.


Very sad.



JLB
 

JLB

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I agree, but I am 100% monergistic (God does all of the work in saving people) and a 5 point Calvinist (a Particular Baptist, like the early Pilgrims and Charles Spurgeon, to be exact).

You like many others follow the teachings of man.


I choose to follow the doctrine of Christ.



JLB
 

Boaz

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I agree, but I am 100% monergistic (God does all of the work in saving people) and a 5 point Calvinist (a Particular Baptist, like the early Pilgrims and Charles Spurgeon, to be exact).
Me too.
 

Boaz

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Ok. I agree.

But that is not what you said in post 88.

Here’s your quote -





JLB
You just don't understand what I am saying. You have to be saved, reborn, in order to believe the Gospel, THERFORE if you believe the Gospel it is BECAUSE you have been saved, reborn. It is simultaneous and comes from hearing the Gospel. You hear the Gospel and believe BECAUSE the Holy Spirit has opened your eyes and ears. You are different. You are reborn TO believe rather than you believe and THEN are reborn. That would mean you did the rebirth BY your belief and as scripture says, we are , in the New birth born by/of God. Before the Holy Spirit does this, if you hear the Gospel you do not believe.
 

atpollard

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Do you believe a person must believe in order to become saved, or do you believe a person must be saved in order to believe?
I believe that it is a nonsensical question. One cannot have saving faith and not be saved. One cannot be saved and not have saving faith. Saving faith is the belief that saves and that comes from being saved. It is like asking if one can be Sanctified without being Justified or Justified without being Sanctified? Belief and salvation are inseparably linked to God and His foreknowledge, predestination, calling, justification and glorification as certain before the foundation of the Earth as it is when the Lamb‘s Book is read at the Last Day.

He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last ... and God does not change.

That is why I told you that I believed Ephesians 2:1-10 answers your question. Not a single verse plucked from context, but a complete treatise on what God does and what man does.

[Ephesians 2:1-10 NIV]
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
  • Man starts out dead in his sin
  • That includes both the saved and the unsaved
  • We all followed ways of Satan (the ruler of the air)
  • We all deserved God’s wrath, not His love.
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.
  • God made us alive when we were dead
  • God saved us by His grace
  • It is not because of our belief or our obedience or any merit in us, rather we are saved because of God’s great love.
6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
  • Again it is not our efforts that are extolled as virtuous, rather it is God’s that raises us for reasons that display His merit and not our merit.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
  • Just in case it was not clear enough, it EXPLICITLY states that our salvation is not from our merit so that men have nothing to boast about.
  • ”saved by faith through grace” is all a GIFT of God

10 For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
  • The place of good works is even explained, so there can be no error that “good works” are unnecessary.
  • Good works come after “salvation” rather than before (the unsaved are not “in Christ”).
  • God has specifically prepared good works, in advance, for us to walk in.

These verses more than answer your question about “belief” or “saved” coming first by rendering the question moot. We are dead ... God loves and God saves and God prepares in advance ... we receive the grace and walk in the good works prepared. God provides BOTH “belief” and “saved” (the fine details of the ORDO SALUTIS is God’s business).
 
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