Growth Daddy the Redeemer

[JohnDB]

I recently was caught up in a study that looked at the Patriarchal system.
In a Patriarchal system there is a head father and all the family surrounding the Patriarch.

The Patriarch had a spouse and kids. In the Ancient Near East there could be many wives and children by those wives. Those children would then marry spouses of their own. Lots of kids, cousins, nieces, nephews and etc.

Now the way this would work was a bit like communism. Everyone brought in their portion of production to the Father who then made sure that everyone got to share in the fruit of the labors. No one was marginalized. If you were a good farmer...you brought in the crops from the field. If you were just a lowly shepherd...you brought in the wool and goat's milk...maybe cheese. (children usually did the shepherding) But everyone did their share or else you had to answer to Daddy. He was the one in charge of everyone.

Now we all know that life is sometimes barbaric.
Raiders might come in and try to grab the flocks and kids to sell into slavery. Someone might try to pick your fields and steal all your hard work...maybe even taking you along with them. Someone in the family might start spreading false rumors about you to where the rest don't want you around.
This is when the Patriarch would step in.
It was his job to make sure that no one was marginalized in his "tent" or household. Everyone had an equal voice and access to food. If someone got taken for sale into slavery...it was his job to get them out. Either through buying them back (as in the case of Hosea and Gomer) or by force through swords, slings, and fists. This was what was known as "Redeeming" a family member.

Even when that idiot, quarrelsome Nephew, who always thinks too highly of himself, gets all caught up in that wicked city and then taken captive when that city gets overrun by five kings and kingdoms all at the same time...you take all of your trained soldiers you bought as slaves and given a real home to go and get your nephew back.
Everyone fights as if they have nothing to lose...because if it was you that was taken in such a fashion Abraham would come for you in the very same fashion. So...no one does have anything to lose, even in the face of against overwhelming odds. And 318 men overcame thousands...
Even though Lot was an idiot and a pain...Abraham fought for him as if there was not going to be a tomorrow if he didn't redeem him.

So...
When the Patriarch did die...the Eldest Son was given a double portion of the inheritance and now he was to be the Patriarch. And the family would cheer that the eldest son was given the double portion...he was to be their new patriarch. He was their redeemer if need be. They couldn't be marginalized because they had a Patriarch Redeemer. Someone who could make sure that they had a place in the family.

So...when looking at Job and his plight. At one point he asks for an advocate to plead his case. He usually was the redeemer for his family. He was very careful to make sure that everyone did right and that everyone was looked after. Even the wife who thought his breath smelled bad.
And then we look at Moses...
He was unique. He brought the Law from God to the people. And more importantly he brought a means of access to God for the people. Up to this time if you were fatherless and had no family...you were out of luck. You had no redeemer. But now with the addition of the Law you had access to your Heavenly Father. He could advocate for you. He had His rules that people were to follow to ensure that no one would be marginalized.
Then Jesus came.
He was really harsh on the spiritual "fathers" that were running around. The pharisees and Sadducees were quick to ostracize anyone they felt didn't belong in the family. They were quick to take advantage of the Samaritans and any Gentile they came across.

But even Samaritans and Gentiles were made by God. And God wanted his "Nation of Priests" to help him in redeeming the lost family members.

SOOOOOOO
I'm just sitting here thinking about how to bring those currently lost to the family back into the family.

 

[Tessa]

Oh wow! I love that. What a wake up call
I guess if you know who the lost ones are and where they are you have a good start
Perhaps your next step would be to contact them and ask them why or how they went astray.
Now perhaps you should get your family and soldiers together, to hunt them down and bring them back.

 

[JohnDB]

Oh wow! I love that. What a wake up call
I guess if you know who the lost ones are and where they are you have a good start
Perhaps your next step would be to contact them and ask them why or how they went astray.
Now perhaps you should get your family and soldiers together, to hunt them down and bring them back.

Well sis,
If you know of anyone who needs bringing back and they want to come back...let's roll.

 

[Tessa]

I will find family and soldiers. There is bound yo be s patriarch amongst them.

There is a Christ Church near me that has mostly elderly members. There doesn't seem to be any outreach.
I don't know why the young have left or who they are. I know several of the members and I would love to help them bring them back.

 

[for_his_glory]

The pharisees and Sadducees were quick to ostracize anyone they felt didn't belong in the family.

And they continue to do so today as I have seen in some churches around where I live.

The only way to bring the lost back to the sheepfold, especially of your own family is to first pray and ask the Holy Spirit to give you the words you need to speak. If they refuse to hear you then we are also told to shake the dust off our feet and move on. One plants, another waters and God brings in the harvest. You might never know if those seeds ever took root, but can only hope.

God gives us the opportunity to speak to a lot of people as He puts them in our path, but it's up to us to open our mouth and speak to them.

I remember back in the day you could find revivals all over the place, but you just don't see those types of outreaches much anymore. What has caused the fire to become just embers.

 

[Who Me]

I'm just sitting here thinking about how to bring those currently lost to the family back into the family.

Either muster your soldiers to go and bring them back, sell a few cows to ransom the back or go and talk to them to pursuade them to come back.

Sites like coldcasechristianity and wintery knight are go for ideas.
Most churches do not like wintery knight as he ridicules the soft, 'all you need is love' rubbish so many church spout.
He majors on reasons why there is a God and on morality and male leadership.

 

[JohnDB]

Either muster your soldiers to go and bring them back, sell a few cows to ransom the back or go and talk to them to pursuade them to come back.

Sites like coldcasechristianity and wintery knight are go for ideas.
Most churches do not like wintery knight as he ridicules the soft, 'all you need is love' rubbish so many church spout.
He majors on reasons why there is a God and on morality and male leadership.

Couple things,
We aren't to disparage anyone...it isn't helpful to tear people down when trying to build unity. Even if they have made mistakes.

Second,
Everyone has different methods of attaining the same goals. Doesn't mean that they or you are wrong...just that there are people who react to different things than what you or I might.
Third,
I don't know the people of whom you are speaking about. I know nothing of them.
Fourth,
Together we are more than the sum of our parts. Two people, working together, can do the work of three people working independently...and it's easier on them at the same time.
Fifth,
People feel loved by wildly different things. Not all are "touchy feely" or mushy receptive.
I can think of two different married men giving their spouses a vacuum cleaner as a present. One wife would have a fit of joy and the other nothing but rage. It's not my job to judge another person's servant. So I usually refrain from judging God's servants. He gets kinda jealous.

All I do know is that this patriarchal system worked. Abraham was God's friend because he did it well.

 

[Who Me]

All I do know is that this patriarchal system worked

Jacob and Esau, Joseph and his ten half brothers, King David and the constant strict in his family.
Three examples that show that the patriarchal system didn't work well.

As for evangelism, do you get many non Christian men into services?
Have you tried the methods coldcasechristianity or wintery knight suggest?

 

[JohnDB]

Jacob and Esau, Joseph and his ten half brothers, King David and the constant strict in his family.
Three examples that show that the patriarchal system didn't work well.

As for evangelism, do you get many non Christian men into services?
Have you tried the methods coldcasechristianity or wintery knight suggest?

Yes, I get many unsaved people into church and into relationships with their heavenly Father. I'm kinda successful in my efforts.

I still have no idea about wintry night or cold case. My extra time studying is filled with NEC 310.15 & 250.66.

And people sin...so some patriarchs failed. Are you suggesting that God shouldn't have redeemed us or used the symbolism of the patriarchal system?

 

[for_his_glory]

Jacob and Esau, Joseph and his ten half brothers, King David and the constant strict in his family.
Three examples that show that the patriarchal system didn't work well.

As for evangelism, do you get many non Christian men into services?
Have you tried the methods coldcasechristianity or wintery knight suggest?

Can you explain how someone like J. Warner Wallace uses forensic evidence to know that God and Jesus are real? What does wintry knight mean?

 

[for_his_glory]

Three examples that show that the patriarchal system didn't work well.

Here is the patriarchal system that says otherwise as it worked through God working in them and through them as He still does today.

Noah was a drunk

Abraham was too old

Isaac was a daydreamer

Jacob was a liar

Leah was ugly

Joseph was abused

Moses had a stuttering problem

Gideon was afraid

Samson had long hair and was a womanizer

Rahab was a prostitute

Jeremiah and Timothy were too young

David had an affair and was a murderer

Elijah was suicidal

Isaiah preached naked

Jonah ran from God

Naomi was a widow

Job went bankrupt

Peter denied Christ

The Disciples fell asleep while praying

Martha worried about everything

Mary Magdalene was, well you know

The Samaritan woman was divorced, more than once

Zaccheus was too small

Paul was too religious (and as Saul was a murderer?)

Timothy had an ulcer...........

AND

Lazarus was dead!



God can use you to your full potential.

Besides you aren't the message you are the messenger.

And one more Thing

God wants your availability, not your ability

 

[Who Me]

Yes, I get many unsaved people into church and into relationships with their heavenly Father. I'm kinda successful in my efforts.

I still have no idea about wintry night or cold case. My extra time studying is filled with NEC 310.15 & 250.66.

And people sin...so some patriarchs failed. Are you suggesting that God shouldn't have redeemed us or used the symbolism of the patriarchal system?

I'm pointing out that it was not a perfect system?

 

[Who Me]

Can you explain how someone like J. Warner Wallace uses forensic evidence to know that God and Jesus are real? What does wintry knight mean?

I don't need to explain what Wallace ably explains himself.
If you are not prepared to read what he says:-
He was a successful coldcase detective and an atheist. He was challenged to investigate Christianity so he did, using the same skills he would use to investigate any crime scene.
His conclusion was that the N T was reliable as evidence.

 

[Who Me]

What does wintry knight mean?

He is a prolific writer, which post are you talking about?

The latest one about the rational conversion of Michael Minot where a rational and evidential case for Christianity was made.
Or there are posts about the scientific evidence or the importance of a biblical based morality.
He is useful in that his arguments are backed by contemporary scientific reasurch

 

[JohnDB]

I'm pointing out that it was not a perfect system?

The system is perfect... people are not.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't need to explain what Wallace ably explains himself.
If you are not prepared to read what he says:-
He was a successful coldcase detective and an atheist. He was challenged to investigate Christianity so he did, using the same skills he would use to investigate any crime scene.
His conclusion was that the N T was reliable as evidence.

I know who he is as I watch him on Dateline. I did read his article and he proved to himself the NT was a reliable source for Christianity by using his skills of being a detective who always seek eye witness testimony before they start looking into a case.

We as humans always need proof of evidence before we believe anything. Our proof of evidence comes by reading the Bible that is made up from the letters the Prophets and Disciples of Christ witnessed and wrote about God and His Son Christ Jesus. It's not only just reading the Bible, but also studying history, culture of the various eras and researching archeology of today as we see the evidence that God is real. The best evidence is that of allowing God to show Himself to you as you remain still long enough to hear Him speak to you.

 

[for_his_glory]

He is a prolific writer, which post are you talking about?

The latest one about the rational conversion of Michael Minot where a rational and evidential case for Christianity was made.
Or there are posts about the scientific evidence or the importance of a biblical based morality.
He is useful in that his arguments are backed by contemporary scientific reasurch

What does any of this have to do with you explaining what wintry knight means from your post #8

 

[Who Me]

What does any of this have to do with you explaining what wintry knight means from your post #8

It is a reply to 'for his glory' about so, nothing to do wit post 8.

 

[for_his_glory]

It is a reply to 'for his glory' about so, nothing to do wit post 8.

I am for_his_glory. All I was asking is if you could tell us what wintry knight means as I never heard of this before and could not find anything trying to search for this.