Is Salvation really a "free Gift" of God?

[Hospes]

Agreed on everything you stated here ??

Well, that makes us either both right or both wrong!

Seriously, thanks for engaging with me on this.

 

[for_his_glory]

Rajesh Sahu with all due respect for your knowledge of the scriptures, you are putting the cart before the horse.

A disciple of Christ is someone who believes in Him and seeks to pick up their cross and follow Him, Matthew 16:24, as they deny themselves and follow God's will. Before this can happen we must be Spiritually born again from above in order to see the kingdom of God. This all happens by God's gift of grace through Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:8, that we become Spiritually born again, John 3:5-7, as we confess Christ as Lord and Savior, Romans 10:9, 10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them, Ephesians 2:10. After being Spiritually born again to become His own then we need to pick up our cross to follow Him as He makes us fishers of men, Matthew 4:19, as Christ equips us with everything good that you may do His will working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, Hebrews 13:20, 21.

 

[Pipiripi]

Paul says in Romans 6:23 "Salvation is a free Gift of God"

“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of god is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)

Paul mentions this thought few more times like in Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:24 etc.

But, while reading Luke recently I realized Jesus completely rejects that (Paul’s) claim in Luke 14:25-34 --- by stating the LARGE COST of becoming His disciple—be ready to give up EVERYTHING warns/ counsels the Lord if you want to become my disciple. Exactly what Jesus had told the rich man in the rich man and Jesus incident ( it is not a parable) (Mark 10:17–31).

Christ again teaches the same message in "The Parable of the Pearl of Great Price " in Matthew 13:45-46

Let us read the Lord’s words in Luke 14:25-33 (New International Version)

The Cost of Being a Disciple

Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

28 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? 29 For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you, 30 saying, ‘This person began to build and wasn’t able to finish.’

31 “Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Won’t he first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32 If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples."
Far from being a free gift, even to become a disciple of Christ requires us to be ready to give up ALL – including our LIVES--- if needed (Luke 14:26, 33), says the Lord, else He does NOT want us to be His disciple.
Most definitely NOT a free Gift by any stretch of the imagination, as Paul taught.

Christ gave up his all for us and now wants OUR ALL in case we wish to become His disciple, was what I got from Christ's words in the above mentioned Luke passage. This begs the question How/ Why was Paul was teaching Salvation is a free gift? And I feel cheated that almost every Church I have been to over past 15 years teach the same falsehood ---” Salvation is a free Gift of God, all you have to do is believe” But I ( now) do not believe the Churches! I believe what Jesus taught --- He IS the messiah. He IS the architect of the rules of salvation. He died for us on the Cross. Nobody else did. He does not agree it's a free gift.
This misteaching(s) ( of many Churches)is one of the most important reasons that I love our website here. This IS my real Church because the “real Churches” did NOT teach the truth. Jesus’ words in Matthew 15:14 summarizes their teachings for me now :
“Disregard them! They are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
Would invite thoughts ( backed with scripture please ?) on this important doctrinal question.
Many thanks in advance. Submitted in respect and love...Raj

The problem is that the gift is free, but we are slaves of sin. We have to choose staying in sin or be free from sin. We are not robots, but humans and we have our own free will to choose. We cannot be free from our slavery ourselves, because sin is more powerful than ourselves. Jesus without sin died for me and you TO take our sins upon Him, so that we can have His life. The gift is Himself, and the rest is in the Bible how to get the gift in your body to destroy the slavery sin in us.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

The problem is that the gift is free, but we are slaves of sin. We have to choose staying in sin or be free from sin. We are not robots, but humans and we have our own free will to choose. We cannot be free from our slavery ourselves, because sin is more powerful than ourselves. Jesus without sin died for me and you TO take our sins upon Him, so that we can have His life. The gift is Himself, and the rest is in the Bible how to get the gift in your body to destroy the slavery sin in us.

Jesus says no, it's not a free gift, in fact it's the most expensive "gift" one can buy. Says that in Luke( check my post ) . He repeats that to the Rich man ( and Jesus) episode, and yet again says that in Pearl of Great Value parable. I therefore reject Paul's claim that Salvation is Free Gift. It's not free says Jesus. He wants everything we have, including our lives. We have to be ready at all times to die for him, lay down our lives if needed reminds the Lord . In fact Free gift of salvation is ironically the costliest gist ever according to Christ Himself

 

[Pipiripi]

Free gift means that nobody can do nothing to have salvation,

Jesus says no, it's not a free gift, in fact it's the most expensive "gift" one can buy. Says that in Luke( check my post ) . He repeats that to the Rich man ( and Jesus) episode, and yet again says that in Pearl of Great Value parable. I therefore reject Paul's claim that Salvation is Free Gift. It's not free says Jesus. He wants everything we have, including our lives. We have to be ready at all times to die for him, lay down our lives if needed reminds the Lord . In fact Free gift of salvation is ironically the costliest gist ever according to Christ Himself

Free gift means that nobody can do nothing to get their salvation for eternal life. It is open for everyone to choose. It is free, nothing can buy our salvation it is FREE by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Free gift means that nobody can do nothing to have salvation,
Free gift means that nobody can do nothing to get their salvation for eternal life. It is open for everyone to choose. It is free, nothing can buy our salvation it is FREE by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

That's precisely what I'm saying. Jesus I'd rejecting it's a free gift. We have to earn through doing the Will of God vs our will ( obedience ) else the doors are closed says Christ ( Matthew 7:21, Mark 3:35, Matthew 10:38)
We can break these verses down to get to the root of what Christ is saying. Salvation is anything but a free gift. One writer did tout it as free. Nobody else did or say that in the entire bible , cover to cover

 

[jerry63935]

it's not a free gift, in fact it's the most expensive "gift" one can buy

no the price has been paid in full redemption we been bought with a price that Christ paid at the cross. He shed his Blood . its free to us called Grace GoD. riches . at Christ., Expense this is why we can not buy it or work for it .its very free

 

[jerry63935]

We have to earn through doing the Will of God vs our will ( obedience )

explain how a lost man can earn salvation ? your getting in to a work based salvation

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

no the price has been paid in full redemption we been bought with a price that Christ paid at the cross. He shed his Blood . its free to us called Grace GoD. riches . at Christ., Expense this is why we can not buy it or work for it .its very free

Can we please have some quotes from the architect of Salvation, Jesus Christ please. He strongly disagreed with free gift salvation doctrine that is taught now.
He let most of his Church go when he said " Eat my flesh and drink my blood " He kept repeating these words which made many of His followers turn away from Him. Why did He say that ? He wanted hard obedience ( practise what I teach, keep ALL my commandments as he says in his Great commission 28:18-20) . Why didnt he tell his disciples " Wait guys just believe and I'll give you gift of free salvation " But He chose to give up likely 90% of His Church . Why? Think about it guys .
He did the same thing with the Rich man ( and Jesus encounter) who wanted to be saved (like us ) and wanted to know how to do it. Again Jesus abstained from saying " Look all you have to do is believe in me and I'll give you the Free Gift of eternal life" But He didnt say that . Rather He asked the Rich man to give up all his wealth to the poor and then follow Him.
It was too much of an ask for the rich guy and he walked away from Jesus. Separation from Christ forever . And Jesus felt sad on losing this man ( likely forever )
because the verses said Jesus loved Him. Yet Christ didn't say to him , believe in me and I'll give you eternal life. Why?
Let us go to verses which are seldom taught . Did you know Jesus hands out a deathly threat to those who come to Him seeking salvation Jerry? Jesus warns all salvation seekers are doomed , finished and condemned. Look look what our Lord says " All those who want to save their life will LOSE it " Let's examine matthew 16:25
"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it."
Jesus wanted fully dedicated SOLDIERS who were willing to lay down their lives for the Gospel ( think all his HANDPICKED apostles ) . Not salvation seekers who are pretty much doomed. I'm afraid friends on the last day it will play out exactly as the Lord had warned , predicted if you will, in Matthew 22:14 ►
"For many are called, but few are chosen."
Few will enter His holy sanctuary friends . Only the ones who denied their flesh, picked up their cross and FOLLOWED Jesus ( Matthew 10 :38)
I'm just sad this doctrine of "free gift of salvation" to believers was taught in the first place . Jesus wanted HARD obedience . ...eat my flesh drink my blood. .... John 6: 62 -59
Jesus procceds to issue a stark warning yet again when He comes to judge the world in FURY , in Revelation 22 :12
“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has DONE."
He wants DOERS of the word and NOT empty believers .
There are no free lunches and no free gifts of salvation. Read the account of Goats and Sheep VISION of a future event. Goats are Christians who merely believed ( thinking it was all that was needed to be saved) But Jesus condemned them for NOT practising Loving Compassion. They were condemned merely for omission of His commandments. How bad then will it be for the sinning people and Christians who merely believed but didn't obey and chose to love a sinful lifestyle (Hebrews 6:4-6)
Jesus cautions in John 14:15 " IF you love me, you WILL keep my commandments "
What it simply means is if " You are not keeping my commandments, you have no love for me "
How then can one be saved if we are not keeping His commandments? By repeating this condemning doctrine of free gift of salvation , all we do is do Jesus a great disservice, and invite the wrath of God and The Son, besides dishonoring ALL the Prophets . For WHICH of these three ( Father God, Son, and the Prophets) taught it's a FREE Gift ? Please tell me if they did . ?

 

[jerry63935]

Jesus cautions in John 14:15 " IF you love me, you WILL keep my commandments "
What it simply means is if " You are not keeping my commandments, you have no love for me "
How then can one be saved if we are not keeping His commandments?

are you % 100 obedient in every thing? what happens if you fail ? being obedient follows after salvation .even then when we fail we can approach the throne of Grace. Christ was born under the law. his death on the cross paid the price .the resurrection makes it possible to be born again his death burial and resurrection = Grace so is there room for forgiveness is there room for mercy is there room for grace ? for those who fail ? 1 john 1:9

 

[JLB]

Jesus says no, it's not a free gift, in fact it's the most expensive "gift" one can buy. Says that in Luke( check my post ) . He repeats that to the Rich man ( and Jesus) episode, and yet again says that in Pearl of Great Value parable. I therefore reject Paul's claim that Salvation is Free Gift. It's not free says Jesus. He wants everything we have, including our lives. We have to be ready at all times to die for him, lay down our lives if needed reminds the Lord . In fact Free gift of salvation is ironically the costliest gist ever according to Christ Himself

Maybe you could post the scripture and context of what Jesus said about eternal life, and what Paul said so we can compare and see what you are referring to.




JLB

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Maybe you could post the scripture and context of what Jesus said about eternal life, and what Paul said so we can compare and see what you are referring to.




JLB

Brother JLB I'm rehearsing my monologue for my YouTube video which is likely getting recorded on Saturday afternoon . I'm working hard to present the doctrine of Christ in His own words, in that Video. It's all scripture based. Mostly Christ's words. Please give me till sunday and I'll definitely reply to your query. I believe it's most worthwhile.... repeated reading of the red lettered Words of Jesus recorded for us in Bible. It's something else, when the King spoke Hope to use the message as an Evangelism tool as well.

 

[JLB]

Brother JLB I'm rehearsing my monologue for my YouTube video which is likely getting recorded on Saturday afternoon . I'm working hard to present the doctrine of Christ in His own words, in that Video. It's all scripture based. Mostly Christ's words. Please give me till sunday and I'll definitely reply to your query. I believe it's most worthwhile.... repeated reading of the red lettered Words of Jesus recorded for us in Bible. It's something else, when the King spoke Hope to use the message as an Evangelism tool as well.

Send me a link to the video when you get it up.


Thanks, JLB

 

[Randy]

Paul says in Romans 6:23 "Salvation is a free Gift of God"

“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of god is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)

Paul mentions this thought few more times like in Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:24 etc.

But, while reading Luke recently I realized Jesus completely rejects that (Paul’s) claim in Luke 14:25-34 --- by stating the LARGE COST of becoming His disciple—be ready to give up EVERYTHING warns/ counsels the Lord if you want to become my disciple. Exactly what Jesus had told the rich man in the rich man and Jesus incident ( it is not a parable) (Mark 10:17–31).

Christ again teaches the same message in "The Parable of the Pearl of Great Price " in Matthew 13:45-46

Let us read the Lord’s words in Luke 14:25-33 (New International Version)

The Cost of Being a Disciple

Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

28 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? 29 For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you, 30 saying, ‘This person began to build and wasn’t able to finish.’

31 “Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Won’t he first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32 If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples."
Far from being a free gift, even to become a disciple of Christ requires us to be ready to give up ALL – including our LIVES--- if needed (Luke 14:26, 33), says the Lord, else He does NOT want us to be His disciple.
Most definitely NOT a free Gift by any stretch of the imagination, as Paul taught.

Christ gave up his all for us and now wants OUR ALL in case we wish to become His disciple, was what I got from Christ's words in the above mentioned Luke passage. This begs the question How/ Why was Paul was teaching Salvation is a free gift? And I feel cheated that almost every Church I have been to over past 15 years teach the same falsehood ---” Salvation is a free Gift of God, all you have to do is believe” But I ( now) do not believe the Churches! I believe what Jesus taught --- He IS the messiah. He IS the architect of the rules of salvation. He died for us on the Cross. Nobody else did. He does not agree it's a free gift.
This misteaching(s) ( of many Churches)is one of the most important reasons that I love our website here. This IS my real Church because the “real Churches” did NOT teach the truth. Jesus’ words in Matthew 15:14 summarizes their teachings for me now :
“Disregard them! They are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
Would invite thoughts ( backed with scripture please ?) on this important doctrinal question.
Many thanks in advance. Submitted in respect and love...Raj

What work did man perform to have his sins forgiven?
luke 23
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. ”
43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise

Two asked something of Him only one received a reply. The one who believed in Him.

What God gives He gives freely. What you receive from man you might have to work hard for.

 

[Randy]

In following Jesus in 1st century Israel you most likely would be kicked out of the synagogue possibly lose friends, family, employment and threatened with arrest or arrested.
That cost is from man, Gods enemies, not God. You must be willing to suffer/lose those things in accepting Christ and follow Him. You must love Him more than your own family in that context.

 

[jerry63935]

What work did man perform to have his sins forgiven?

he hasn't or ever will be able to any one promoting work based salvation . is removing Grace from the plan of salvation . even Jesus said come unto me... Grace and truth comes by him.. don't know about you but i am glad i can approach the throne of Grace with Boldness to obtain mercy and help in time of need.

 

[Pipiripi]

he hasn't or ever will be able to any one promoting work based salvation . is removing Grace from the plan of salvation . even Jesus said come unto me... Grace and truth comes by him.. don't know about you but i am glad i can approach the throne of Grace with Boldness to obtain mercy and help in time of need.

Grace alone will not save you, and work alone cannot save you. In place of grace there must be faith. It is a twisting of the scriptures. James 2:14, 2:18, 2:22.

 

[JLB]

What work did man perform to have his sins forgiven?
luke 23
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. ”
43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise

Two asked something of Him only one received a reply. The one who believed in Him.

What God gives He gives freely. What you receive from man you might have to work hard for.

The work of obedience.

 

[Randy]

The work of obedience.

It read like he reached out to Jesus by faith to me and Jesus responded with grace and mercy not any form of repayment for works. I don't classify that as work. His faith saved him.

 

[JLB]

It read like he reached out to Jesus by faith to me and Jesus responded with grace and mercy not any form of repayment for works. I don't classify that as work. His faith saved him.

God was drawing upon his heart even then.

Very similar to the woman with the issue of blood.

Yes, His faith saved him.

However, the principle by which faith operates to produce the intended divine result is obedience; the obedience of faith.


That principle is found in Romans 10:9-10, as well as
James 2:21-26

He is a comparison of Romans 1:9-10 and the passage of the thief on the cross —


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” Luke 23:42-43



The thief confessed Him as Lord, and by saying “remember me when You come into your kingdom”, he believed Jesus would certainly continue to live on and be resurrected, and rule as Lord and King.


The obedience of faith is confessing Jesus as Lord, which is how we are saved. It is the corresponding action of obedience to the command to repent.

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

JLB