Bible Study Requirements of Salvation

[JLB]

So we must not only say that we have faith....
but show and prove that we have it by our good deeds.
James 2:17

Paul says it this way —


“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:19-20


JLB

 

[Who Me]

Do you believe there are no rules to follow?

There is a great difference between saying one Must follow these rules and saying if you love me you will obey my commands.

The rules are there to convict people of sin.
Our sin has been dealt with so the rules show us how Jesus wants us to live.

What rules?

Love the Lord your God with all you are and your neighbour as you love your self.

Either in that format or in the format of the ten commandments.

 

[JLB]

There is a great difference between saying one Must follow these rules and saying if you love me you will obey my commands.

The rules are there to convict people of sin.
Our sin has been dealt with so the rules show us how Jesus wants us to live.

What rules?

Love the Lord your God with all you are and your neighbour as you love your self.

Either in that format or in the format of the ten commandments.

So let’s discuss what could happen if a Christian is offended by his brother and begins to hate, which is another way of saying he is disobedient to God.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



If a brother commits adultery with his brothers wife he is not loving him, but hating him.


If a brother covets his neighbors wife or things, he is engaging in idolatry.


Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Colossians 3:5



The Lord says those who practice these things will have their part in the lake of fire.


He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. Revelation 21:7-8


JLB

 

[Who Me]

let’s discuss what could happen if a Christian is offended by his brother and begins to hate

He has to talk with the other Christian about what is offending him and the other Christian has to listen and seek to understand what the problem is.

It is just the same way of behaving if a brother has sinned against one.
Step one is talk to the person.
Step two is talk with a witness.
Step three is put it before the elders for them to talk with the person.
Step four if they will not change the offending behaviour.
It is step 5 inform the church what has happened and
Step six formally tell them not to return to the church and that church members are not to associate with that person.

In most situations it does not go beyond step one.
You talk the other person realises what they did has hurt the other and they say sorry.
The offended person forgives them.

Christian fellowship is about communicating with each other.
Some ' inocent ' habits are offensive to more sensitive souls and us more course and crude souls have to be prepared to change how we act, speak, dress etc.

 

[JLB]

He has to talk with the other Christian about what is offending him and the other Christian has to listen and seek to understand what the problem is.

It is just the same way of behaving if a brother has sinned against one.
Step one is talk to the person.
Step two is talk with a witness.
Step three is put it before the elders for them to talk with the person.
Step four if they will not change the offending behaviour.
It is step 5 inform the church what has happened and
Step six formally tell them not to return to the church and that church members are not to associate with that person.

In most situations it does not go beyond step one.
You talk the other person realises what they did has hurt the other and they say sorry.
The offended person forgives them.

Christian fellowship is about communicating with each other.
Some ' inocent ' habits are offensive to more sensitive souls and us more course and crude souls have to be prepared to change how we act, speak, dress etc.

The point is, if a brother hates his brother he is a murderer.

No murderer has eternal life in them.


JLB

 

[Christ_empowered]

Just jumping in here....

One reason I am avoiding church is because the churches that seem to emphasize grace do not seem to be facilitating transformation. The stricter churches tend to be authoritarian and a little bit...scary.

Maybe I should just go rcc? ?

 

[GodsGrace]

There is a great difference between saying one Must follow these rules and saying if you love me you will obey my commands.

The rules are there to convict people of sin.
Our sin has been dealt with so the rules show us how Jesus wants us to live.

What rules?

Love the Lord your God with all you are and your neighbour as you love your self.

Either in that format or in the format of the ten commandments.

What Jesus is saying is that if we love Him,
we MUST follow His rules.

This is what a disciple is....someone who learns
from a teacher. You've stated that Jesus teaches us
how to live and this is true.

You say that the rules are there to convict us of sin.
Sometimes I lose the meaning of what this means.
The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin.
The rules are there to be followed.

Jesus said to Love God and love ourselves as our neighbor.
Do we realize how many rules this involves?
Love will cover all these rules.....
But what would you say to those that do not feel they have any rules to follow?
To those that call ME a legalist because I believe Jesus needs to be heeded?
Jesus did not say we are to abolish the rules...He said we are to follow them
BETTER than the Pharisees.
Matthew 5:20

Also, could you please tell me what it means to be in the Kingdom of God?
I think we might be agreeing,,,but sometimes I'm not so sure.

 

[GodsGrace]

Just jumping in here....

One reason I am avoiding church is because the churches that seem to emphasize grace do not seem to be facilitating transformation. The stricter churches tend to be authoritarian and a little bit...scary.

Maybe I should just go rcc? ?

The RCC has doctrine I cannot agree with.
However, the teaching there is very good and I can't think of a biblical teaching that I don't agree with...I have a little doubt about John 3:5.

It is also a very well-balanced church....leaving you in the hands of the Holy Spirit once you understand that moral values are very important.

I agree with you.
Grace only churches mean well and we ARE UNDER GBACE.
But so many interpret this incorrectly.
Some believe that since Jesus "did it all",. we no longer have to.

And churches that are truly legalistic are also wrong.
Some tell women they can't wear lipstick or pants.
What that would have to do with my salvation, I don't know.

I would not discourage anyone from entering the RCC...
however you'll have to deal with sacramental grace ---not so bad.
Purgatory --- a problem for me.
Mariology --- Too much beyond what the early church intended.

 

[GodsGrace]

He has to talk with the other Christian about what is offending him and the other Christian has to listen and seek to understand what the problem is.

It is just the same way of behaving if a brother has sinned against one.
Step one is talk to the person.
Step two is talk with a witness.
Step three is put it before the elders for them to talk with the person.
Step four if they will not change the offending behaviour.
It is step 5 inform the church what has happened and
Step six formally tell them not to return to the church and that church members are not to associate with that person.

In most situations it does not go beyond step one.
You talk the other person realises what they did has hurt the other and they say sorry.
The offended person forgives them.

Christian fellowship is about communicating with each other.
Some ' inocent ' habits are offensive to more sensitive souls and us more course and crude souls have to be prepared to change how we act, speak, dress etc.

Are you a JW?

 

[daninthelionsden]

If I could I would update the original post and remove the part about 1 Peter 3:21 concerning baptism and having a good conscience toward God. My interpretation of that verse was off. But we do still need to continue in obedience to God and His will to have a good conscience toward Him. Also here is the page which can take you to the complete KJB in PDF format: http://gffg.info/Jesus/KJBPDF.html

I absolutely love your humility....simply awesome.

 

[daninthelionsden]

When people start talking like this I get suspicious, as in my experience it devolves into follow these rules.

The gospel is a message of grace that leads us through our love for Jesus to obey him.

Yes, but I tend now to understand that these are not formulas. Rather, they are way markers. We follow these to make sure we are within Christ as He works within us and we reflect this as we work within and without.

 

[daninthelionsden]

The RCC has doctrine I cannot agree with.
However, the teaching there is very good and I can't think of a biblical teaching that I don't agree with...I have a little doubt about John 3:5.

It is also a very well-balanced church....leaving you in the hands of the Holy Spirit once you understand that moral values are very important.

I agree with you.
Grace only churches mean well and we ARE UNDER GBACE.
But so many interpret this incorrectly.
Some believe that since Jesus "did it all",. we no longer have to.

And churches that are truly legalistic are also wrong.
Some tell women they can't wear lipstick or pants.
What that would have to do with my salvation, I don't know.

I would not discourage anyone from entering the RCC...
however you'll have to deal with sacramental grace ---not so bad.
Purgatory --- a problem for me.
Mariology --- Too much beyond what the early church intended.

The abuse I've witnessed in the RCC methodology is the "I can do whatever I want as long as I go to confession" scenario. And this differs little in the Grace heavy denominations in the "I am free from the Law. Jesus has me covered so I can do what I want to whoever I want". My family was Grace all the way and I witnessed incest and all manner of sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

The abuse I've witnessed in the RCC methodology is the "I can do whatever I want as long as I go to confession" scenario. And this differs little in the Grace heavy denominations in the "I am free from the Law. Jesus has me covered so I can do what I want to whoever I want". My family was Grace all the way and I witnessed incest and all manner of sin.

I agree that many think this way...but that will be for God to judge.
The CC has changed a lot and much depends on the priest/pastor of the parish.
Priests are not even supposed to forgive sin if the person is not contrite.
This is too much to discuss here although I'm willing to.

Some Catholics also believe that they're saved because they're baptised.
This is also not taught. Part of the problem is that Catholics do not attend
their bible study classes. This is beginning to change.

 

[Who Me]

What Jesus is saying is that if we love Him,
we MUST follow His rules.

If we Must obey where is the love?
In saying we Must it is turning that obedience into a work and denying the gift of salvation.

tell me what it means to be in the Kingdom of God

There are many meanings to this, for me the most relevant is that as a Christian I belong to Jesus, I am part of his family and that my cityzenship is not in any country here but in heaven.

Are you a JW?

May I suggest you become more familiar faith is teaching and the major difference between there teaching and the teach I put forward here.
( No )

 

[Who Me]

You say that the rules are there to convict us of sin

Sorry missed this.
Yes it is the Spirit that works in us convicting us of sin, but what is the spirit working with?

As Paul say in Romans 7, it is the law that teaches me what sin is.
It is that same ten commandments that out of love for Jesus, we willingly obey.

 

[JLB]

If we Must obey where is the love?
In saying we Must it is turning that obedience into a work and denying the gift of salvation.

We demonstrate our love through obeying Him.


It’s not so much “following rules” as it is following Him, as His life within us motivates us to do good rather than to do evil, to express love rather than hate, to help someone in need rather than ignore them.


to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us.
Ephesians 3:19-20



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

If we Must obey where is the love?
In saying we Must it is turning that obedience into a work and denying the gift of salvation.

There are many meanings to this, for me the most relevant is that as a Christian I belong to Jesus, I am part of his family and that my cityzenship is not in any country here but in heaven.

May I suggest you become more familiar faith is teaching and the major difference between there teaching and the teach I put forward here.
( No )

First of all, I asked you if you're a JW because of the system you explained should be followed when a person does harm to another person in your post no. 29. They follow the same routine.
By now, of course, I realize you're not.

The word MUST turns grace into a work?
Then James must not have loved Jesus.
He said that faith without works is a dead faith.
James 2:17

Jesus said if we don't follow His commandments, we don't love Him.
John 15:14

Jesus even said that IF we keep His commandments, we will abide in His love.
IF is a conditional word...this means that Jesus knew we might NOT keep His commandments.
John 15:10
10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

And being a member of the Kingdom of God means that we are members right here and now. And to be a member of that Kingdom there are rules to be followed...as in any Kingdom of any King or as in any country.

Jesus came to establish the Kingdom of God and to teach us how to be a part of it.

 

[Who Me]

the system you explained should be followed when a person does harm to another person in your post no. 29

See Luke 17:3
Matthew 18:15-17

For what Jesus said we should do if someone sins/offends us. All I have done is put them into clear number steps.

 

[Who Me]

not so much “following rules” as it is following Him

And how does one follow a political party, pop star, love of one's life or Jesus?

Essentially one does what they do, obey what they say, follow their rules.

There is only one difference we follow Jesus because we love him.
( Pop stars etc is fantasy, or self interest )

 

[JLB]

( Pop stars etc is fantasy, or self interest )

Amen