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I got saved by the drawing of the Holy Spirit. That's the only way anyone gets saved.


Withheld I'm curious. What is it that you got saved from?

As far as being drawn by the spirit being the only way to get saved from _____________, I'm not so sure the scriptures support that idea. The texts say that salvation comes by the grace of God through the believer's faith/trust in God's Christ. This faith is said to come from hearing the word of God. Unless the word of God and the spirit are one and the same, it would appear that it is the word of God that led men to salvation.
 
I don't understand your question. Sounds like you haven't been saved yet. What I'm saying is tha a person who has been saved knows that the have been saved...salvation/redemption. I'll let you answer before I go into the gospel here.

The word is clear. John 6:44 Jesus said 'no man comes to Me except the Father draws him'.(mine).

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are One. The mystery of the Trinity. Unless God pulls on mans heart, they will not respond. The flesh is bad enough, but then you got the great liar of all liars that continues to blind mankind.satan and his minions.
 
I got saved by the drawing of the Holy Spirit. That's the only way anyone gets saved.
Withheld I'm curious. What is it that you got saved from?
I guess he got saved from falling into wells or something - the Holy Spirit opened his eyes.


c'MON, T over T - what game are you playing?
You know perfectly well what he is saying - why not just say what you have to say instead of playing word games with someone making an honest post.

Bad form, this is almost trolling. :naughty
 
c'MON, T over T - what game are you playing?


My point was that salvation is NOT received on this side of life at all. For the saints who are faithful unto death, there is a crown of righteousness awaiting them. That crown is not given until after our life is past. Since salvation is not received in this life, but in the world to come, I believe it cannot be lost at that time, and therefore, once saved, always saved.
But just so I am 100% clear, I do not believe that ANYONE living is among the saved YET.
 
c'MON, T over T - what game are you playing?


My point was that salvation is NOT received on this side of life at all. For the saints who are faithful unto death, there is a crown of righteousness awaiting them. That crown is not given until after our life is past. Since salvation is not received in this life, but in the world to come, I believe it cannot be lost at that time, and therefore, once saved, always saved.
But just so I am 100% clear, I do not believe that ANYONE living is among the saved YET.


Truth, I have to ask you this straight out, are you a Jehovah's Witness?

I don't mean to be rude. But the link you posted in another thread is to a JW site and there are several links on there to other JW sites.
 
T or t. You baffle me my friend. You see more than a lot of folks on this forum, yet salvation has eluded you, or you it!
You sound like a religionist. Ask the average catholic 'r u saved' and they go 'well I sure hope so'. They ain't.
A person who genuinely encounters the Son of God, ...........knows it. All doubt is removed.
Tell me, r u saying that no one can know that they r saved ...here and now in this lifetime? If so, then where's the blessed assurance that our sins are forgiven and we r restored back to the Father?
Let me say this. If you got something and don't know it, you could lose it and not miss it!! That's scary! Please reconsider your position on this all important point. Your eternity depends on it!

John 6:44 'no man comes to me except the Father draws him' (mine). The operations of God the Father and the Son are through the Holy Spirit. Even the emptied Jesus on earth received the Holy Spirit to operate by and commune with the Father to do His will.
 
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Truth, I have to ask you this straight out, are you a Jehovah's Witness?


No offense taken, but no, I'm not. I have too much of a preterist lean to fall in with the Watchtower society. I do think the understanding of the soul and life and death, and hell they along with the SDA's have is far more scripturally sound than that of the vast majority of Christianity.
 
You see more than a lot of folks on this forum,

I see because I look my friend. Ultimately, I want to know what is right so I can be and do what is right. I literally hunger and thirst for righteousness and knowledge. I'm not afraid to put my beliefs to the test and I value truth above my own favored dogmas. A long time ago a preacher friend of mine challenged me to be a man that was willing to let the facts get in the way of my opinions and that advice stuck with me.

yet salvation has eluded you, or you it! ........... A person who genuinely encounters the Son of God, knows it. All doubt is removed. Tell me, r u saying that no one can know that they r saved ...here and now in this lifetime? If so, then where's the blessed assurance that our sins are forgiven and we r restored back to the Father?

In order to be on the same page and have a meaningful discussion about this we must first speak the same language as it pertains to salvation. My contention is that in the Bible various salvations are mentioned and not all of them apply to all men. The salvation that does would appear to be being saved from the course of sin, death. Being that Jesus conquered death, according to the scriptures ALL men will one day be raised from the dead (John 5:28-29) and men have the gifted with the opportunity to be raised to age lasting life (Romans 6:23). This age lasting life is the salvation from death I speak of.

WE do not have the blessed assurance you speak of IMO. That assurance was marked by the seal of God's Holy Breath (Spirit) that was given to the saints. And to be clear, my understanding is that the scriptures do not indicate that post 1st century generations of men are among the number of the saints. The saints have a place at the table with King Jesus while all the rest of mankind has the potential, because of the sacrifice of Jesus and the grace of God to live an age lasting life under the reign of the Kingdom of God ruled by Jesus and administered by his saints if we faithfully submit to His Kingship and rule.
 
Truth, I have to ask you this straight out, are you a Jehovah's Witness?

No offense taken, but no, I'm not. I have too much of a preterist lean to fall in with the Watchtower society. I do think the understanding of the soul and life and death, and hell they along with the SDA's have is far more scripturally sound than that of the vast majority of Christianity.

Thank you for responding, I am glad to hear this. That you are not JW. :)
 
I was hoping he wasn't, either. It would be disturbing to agree with him as much as I do, to find he was a "JW".
 
So ToT, you don't know that u r saved.....right....some future thing?

You mean to tell me that eternity is going to be as long as it is, and we can't have the assurance of whether or not we're saved?!?!?
 
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Sound doctrine is that which is from the beginning. Tertullian said, 'that which is first, is true.' His words are accurate, you can't have false doctrine before you have doctrine, therefore true doctrine must precede false doctrine. Taking that pricnciple and applying it to history tells us that whatever was taught first is the truth. If we as Christians want the truth we need to go back to the beginning and see what was taught first. That means rejecting much of what is taught today and looking at what was taught immediately after the apostles died. By looking at and gettting a consensus from the earliest Christians we can determine what was taguht first and thus arrive at true doctrine.
 
I don't understand your question. Sounds like you haven't been saved yet. What I'm saying is tha a person who has been saved knows that the have been saved...salvation/redemption. I'll let you answer before I go into the gospel here.

The word is clear. John 6:44 Jesus said 'no man comes to Me except the Father draws him'.(mine).

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are One. The mystery of the Trinity. Unless God pulls on mans heart, they will not respond. The flesh is bad enough, but then you got the great liar of all liars that continues to blind mankind.satan and his minions.

But the apostle John said that Christ gives understanding to every person coming into the world. So Christ is giving some level of understanding to every single human being that lives. There is no one that is not influneced by Christ.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.​
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (Joh 1:7-9 KJV)

Regarding John 6:44, the context there is Jesus addressing Jews. No one could come to Him because there was a partial blinding of the Jew that was prophesied by Isaiah. Jesus went on to say that if He was lifted up He would draw "all" unto Himself. The drawing of the Father was for a specific time, a specific purpose and of a group of people.
 
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Wip, I got saved by the drawing of the Holy Spirit. That's the only way anyone gets saved. If someone is reading the bible, and they get saved, it's because the Holy Spirit opened their understanding and drew them in.
There are theologians that are barking in hell right now because they refused the wooings of the Holy Spirit. Their arrogance and intellect they refused to lay down. As a little child they must come. Not full of the knowledge of the tree of good and evil.

Hi withheld,

Have you considered that salvation is a process not a one time event. The Scriptures speak of salvation in three tenses, past, present, and future.
The ultimate goal of salvation is an inheritance in the kingdom of God. No one has received that inheritance yet. Consider Paul's words to the Epehesians, he told them that they had been sealed with the Holy Spirit who was a "down payment" until the future redemption. The Holy Spirit is a down payment on one's salvation. The process isn't completed upon reception of the Spirit. Salvation will ultimately come at the resurrection, until then the process continues. Consider the words of Peter and Paul.

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.​
(1Pe 1:4-5 KJV)

Notice Peter's words, "salvation ready to be revealed atthe last time". It's apparent from this statement that His readers were not in possession of salvatioin because it hadn't been revealed yet. They were still in this process of being saved, they were in a covenant relationship with God that would ultimately end in slavtion as long as they continued in the covenant.

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.​
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. (Phi 3:10-12 KJV)

Here Paul speaks of apprehending the resurrection from teh dead in the future. Notice he says he has not been made complete (perfect).

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.​
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. (Heb 11:8-13 KJV)

In this passage Paul says that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were all heirs of the same promise and that they had bnot yet received it. The promise is the eternal land inheritance that God promised to each of these three men. None of them received the promise. The only way God can fulfill this promise is to reaise these men from the ded and give it to them. This speaks of the resurrection. It is this promse that is the Christians hope.

Jesus spoke to His disciples telling them they would face persecution and those who endured to the end would be saved.
 
The whole creation groans in anticipation waiting for the redemption to be complete. No, I do not have my glorified body yet. But if I dropped dead before I put a period on this sentence, I know my salvation is secure.
 
The whole creation groans in anticipation waiting for the redemption to be complete. No, I do not have my glorified body yet. But if I dropped dead before I put a period on this sentence, I know my salvation is secure.

But secure amd complete are not the same.
 
So ToT, you don't know that u r saved.....right....some future thing? You mean to tell me that eternity is going to be as long as it is, and we can't have the assurance of whether or not we're saved?!?!?

No assurance that I know of exists for us post 1st century believers that are not among the number of the sanctified ones (these were the people given the Holy Spirit as a deposit) Jesus said he was returning for way back then. The hope of all of mankind that was not a part of that group is the hope Jesus spoke of in John 5:28-29, the hope Job looked forward to, the hope the mother of Samuel sang about, as well as the hope the Jews of Jesus day such as Mary and Martha expressed in John 11:21-26, and that is a resurrection to life in the age.
 
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