Wresting or Reasoning Scripture

[netchaplain]

With spiritual growth issues there can be varying beliefs, but only the doctrines that are settled in the “truth” will liberate you from disappointment (Jhn 8:32). Concerning the issue of receiving salvation, there can be no varying beliefs on the essentials of believing in the Lord Jesus’ expiation for our sins. Scripture is directly clear for ease of understanding the latter, but is not always so clear in the former, which answers to the various interpretations concerning spiritual growth issues.

Myself, I believe the difficulties with interpreting the growth truths (esp. the Pauline Epistles) are to allow us to exercise love to one another in the proper manner of patience with wanting to understand one another. After all, everything God does is to this end, to live in His love to Him and to one another (Jhn 13:35); and not as we love ourselves but as He loves us (Jhn 15:12). I believe those with the correct understanding of the growth truths will continue to grow and increasingly find less, if any, disappointments (we should never be disappointed); and those who struggle more than not in apprehending the growth truths will continue to encounter disappointments—but yet are retained in their salvation.

At face value, the spiritual growth truths of the NT of Scripture often appear contradictory (which of course is never actual), and answers to the reason why most Bible commentators utilize the method of “necessary inference” (which opponents call “new inference”) in order to maintain a unified agreement between scriptures. Some commentators use the method of Biblicism (literalism) but results with less success and accurate interpretation.

Example: “Whosoever lives and believes in Me shall never die” (Jhn 11:26).
Apparent contradiction: “Every branch in Me that bears not fruit He takes away” (Jn 15:2).
Inference: Many if not most understand the phrase “in Me” to mean “believes in Me,” and understandably so considering the way it reads. But to avoid contradiction between these two passages it’s required to assume (infer) that “in Me” has the intention that “everyone who professes to believe in Me,” otherwise contradiction cannot be avoided.

John Gill – “There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him, as Simon Magus did; are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ, being in a church state, as the churches of Judea and Thessalonica, and others, are said, in general, to he in Christ; though it is not to be thought that every individual person in these churches were truly and savingly in him.”

John 15 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

Study John 15 using John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible to better understand Scripture with full outline and verse meaning.

www.christianity.com

Example: “in the latter times some shall depart from the faith” (1Ti 4:1).
Inference: “some shall depart from the profession of the faith,” since God keeps those who truly are in the faith from leaving it (Phl 1:6).

John Gill – “that is, from the doctrine of faith, notwithstanding it is indisputably the great mystery of godliness, as it is called in the latter part of the preceding chapter; for from the true grace of faith there can be no final and total apostasy, such as is here designed; for that can never be lost. It is of an incorruptible nature, and therefore more precious than gold that perishes, and Christ is the author and finisher of it.”

1 Timothy 4 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

Study 1 Timothy 4 using John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible to better understand Scripture with full outline and verse meaning.

www.christianity.com

My reason for sharing this is only to be informative of some of the ways commentators reason the Scriptures. I do not expect most to be receptive of this information, but I believe some will benefit. Personally I believe the present lack of spiritual growth will continue until the translation of the Church, in which of course all will come to light.

God’s guidance to all who seek truth over self-justification, and God be blessed in the highest!

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

There is no contradiction between Jn 11:26 and Jn 15:2. The Christian can fall away from Christ and become lost...no OSAS. This does not fit Gills theology so he 'wrested' the scriptures creating an idea not found in scripture to get around his problem. I see just one Vine spoken about in John 15 and a branch (a man) is ether part of the Vine or not. The branch (a man) that is not fruitful is cut off. One cannot be cut off from what he was never really a part of.

No verse says Simon only to 'professed' to believe;
--an inspired Luke says "Simon himself believed" with the verb 'believed' being indicative mood, a statement of fact. Luke did NOT say Simon faked his belief or Simon just 'professed' to believe but Luke says Simon for a fact did believe.
--Acts 8:12-13 "But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done." Simon did also, exactly as those Samaritans. If Simon did not really believe neither did those Samaritans. If those Samaritans did really believe then also did Simon.

1 Tim 4:1 one cannot depart from the faith if he was never really in the faith.
Phil 1:5-6 "for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;" Paul's confidence God would 'complete it until the day of Jesus Christ' was based upon the fact those Philippians had continued to remain faithful from the first day until now. Paul did not have such confidence in those Galatians who had not remained faithful but had fallen from grace, Gal 4:11:

"The word ‘confident’ is a perfect tense--which suggests that due to past experiences, Paul abides in a state of confidence regarding the fruition of the Lord"s work” (Jackson p. 24). This is not a confidence based on "pure emotional hype", rather “The constancy of their fellowship and labor gave to the apostle a personal certainty that the work would be continued” (Lipscomb p. 158). Neither is this a "once saved, always saved", or Paul"s confidence in the "perseverance of the saints". Paul clearly taught that true Christians could become unfaithful (Galatians 5:4). Yet their past (and up to the present) record is a good indication that they were serious about serving God and would continue to do so, especially in the light of the fact that this faithful service had been given even during a time of persecution (1:27-30). Compare with Hebrews 6:9-10." Dunagan's Commentary. (my emp)

Gill evidently thinks there is no such thing as an apostate, but there is, it is not a meaningless word.
Heb 12:2 "looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."
The word "our" is not in the original language. Vine:, “The word ‘our’ should be omitted” (The Epistle to the Hebrews, Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1952, p. 145).

The verse does not say one can only have faith if Christ gives it nor does it say Christ will force a person to maintain faith against one's will. In the original language it says Jesus is the Author and Finisher of 'the faith' with "the faith" referring to the one system of faith (Eph 4:5) found within the pages of the NT. As Paul preached "the faith" Gal 1:23.
Further reading: https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/727-isnt-christ-the-author-of-our-faith

 

[JLB]

There is no contradiction between Jn 11:26 and Jn 15:2. The Christian can fall away from Christ and become lost...no OSAS. This does not fit Gills theology so he 'wrested' the scriptures creating an idea not found in scripture to get around his problem. I see just one Vine spoken about in John 15 and a branch (a man) is ether part of the Vine or not. The branch (a man) that is not fruitful is cut off. One cannot be cut off from what he was never really a part of.

No verse says Simon only to 'professed' to believe;
--an inspired Luke says "Simon himself believed" with the verb 'believed' being indicative mood, a statement of fact. Luke did NOT say Simon faked his belief or Simon just 'professed' to believe but Luke says Simon for a fact did believe.
--Acts 8:12-13 "But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done." Simon did also, exactly as those Samaritans. If Simon did not really believe neither did those Samaritans. If those Samaritans did really believe then also did Simon.

1 Tim 4:1 one cannot depart from the faith if he was never really in the faith.
Phil 1:5-6 "for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;" Paul's confidence God would 'complete it until the day of Jesus Christ' was based upon the fact those Philippians had continued to remain faithful from the first day until now. Paul did not have such confidence in those Galatians who had not remained faithful but had fallen from grace, Gal 4:11:

"The word ‘confident’ is a perfect tense--which suggests that due to past experiences, Paul abides in a state of confidence regarding the fruition of the Lord"s work” (Jackson p. 24). This is not a confidence based on "pure emotional hype", rather “The constancy of their fellowship and labor gave to the apostle a personal certainty that the work would be continued” (Lipscomb p. 158). Neither is this a "once saved, always saved", or Paul"s confidence in the "perseverance of the saints". Paul clearly taught that true Christians could become unfaithful (Galatians 5:4). Yet their past (and up to the present) record is a good indication that they were serious about serving God and would continue to do so, especially in the light of the fact that this faithful service had been given even during a time of persecution (1:27-30). Compare with Hebrews 6:9-10." Dunagan's Commentary. (my emp)

Gill evidently thinks there is no such thing as an apostate, but there is, it is not a meaningless word.
Heb 12:2 "looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."
The word "our" is not in the original language. Vine:, “The word ‘our’ should be omitted” (The Epistle to the Hebrews, Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1952, p. 145).

The verse does not say one can only have faith if Christ gives it nor does it say Christ will force a person to maintain faith against one's will. In the original language it says Jesus is the Author and Finisher of 'the faith' with "the faith" referring to the one system of faith (Eph 4:5) found within the pages of the NT. As Paul preached "the faith" Gal 1:23.
Further reading: https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/727-isnt-christ-the-author-of-our-faith

Yes it plainly says Simon believed and was baptized.

It seems Simon was immature not understanding everything he was supposed to when he offered money to Peter.

Does this immaturity mean he was never saved?

I wonder where that fits into the "growth scriptures narrative" ?


JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Does this immaturity mean he was never saved?

I hope not, as I still see myself as immature in many parts of the faith, as I will be the rest of my life.

I'm learning for at least myself, that I will never fully understand, or be as scholarly as some would hope you think they are.

As scripture says, we are to divide the word of God rightly, for me after much prayer, and we are ALL to mature to a point of teaching in Gods truth and LOVE, after we mature into that knowledge, that isn't what we think, but what we know,
or, I LOVE THIS, to "Oida." This is a beautiful Greek word, that means to FULLY KNOW, as opposed to "ganosko" or to "epiganosko", meaning the process of coming to the full knowledge of, as a process to fulfillment.
These when studied, are such fabulously beautiful words with so much depth to learn from, and bring new understandings, as many here probably know very well.

Thank you netchaplain for your amazing words of truth to start off this thread. I'll enjoy following it !!
My name is OLIGOS

By the way, using Koine Greek to explain something biblical is no big deal to me. It's just a way to go deeper in clarifying Gods word .

 

[JLB]

I hope not, as I still see myself as immature in many parts of the faith, as I will be the rest of my life.

I'm learning for at least myself, that I will never fully understand, or be as scholarly as some would hope you think they are.

As scripture says, we are to divide the word of God rightly, for me after much prayer, and we are ALL to mature to a point of teaching in Gods truth and LOVE, after we mature into that knowledge, that isn't what we think, but what we know,
or, I LOVE THIS, to "Oida." This is a beautiful Greek word, that means to FULLY KNOW, as opposed to "ganosko" or to "epiganosko", meaning the process of coming to the full knowledge of, as a process to fulfillment.
These when studied, are such fabulously beautiful words with so much depth to learn from, and bring new understandings, as many here probably know very well.

Thank you netchaplain for your amazing words of truth to start off this thread. I'll enjoy following it !!
My name is OLIGOS

By the way, using Koine Greek is no big deal to me. It's just a way to go deeper in clarifying Gods word .

Amen brother, glad to have you in the thread.

Some of us believe that to be in Christ, means we are joined to Christ and are one spirit with Him because we have been baptized into Christ by the Spirit.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17


IOW, to be in Christ means we have eternal life because we are joined to and are one with the Spirit of Life in Christ.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17


How about you?

What does to be in Christ mean to you, from your studies?



JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

How about you?

What does to be in Christ mean to you from your studies?

JLB my brother.
This is a topic I'm in love with, as the implications are astounding to me. I'll explain why a bit later.

Romans is the book that really speaks to me, on the topic of "Being in Christ."!
Romans 6: 3 says, "Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus, have been baptized into His death." (Where there was "BLOOD" - "MUCH BLOOD of Jesus Christ), and so we come into contact (Symbolically) with the blood of Christ at baptism. See below !!

Then Hebrews 9:22 says, "..the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood (Sacrifice), and without the shedding of blood (sacrifice), there is no forgiveness of sin." (or no remission of sin.)

In Acts 2: 38 we are told to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins.
So, is there any other way NOW, to be forgiven of sins but baptism??
No other way to be forgiven, but through the contact with Christ's (Symbolic) blood at baptism, and without the shedding of blood, Heb. 9:22, there is no forgiveness, because 2 Cor. 5:17, says, " because through the blood of Christ we are redeemed (Bought with the price of Christ's blood), and by His blood we are freed from sin and SAVED.

THIS IS THE EXCITING PART I MENTIONED AT THE BEGINNING.
NOW, remember the Passover, and the Passover lamb and the killing of the sacrificial lambs in Egypt, and the covering of the door post with their blood to save the Israelites from the angel of death and from any harm.

For me, today, Jesus is my sacrificial Passover lamb, who shed His blood on the cross that I come into contact with through baptism (Symbolically), and not only allows me to have my sins forgiven, but covers me daily from harm as the NEW Passover lamb that protects me now, like He did at Passover.

Symbolically we come into contact with the blood of Christ through our real baptism, as it says in Romans 6:3, by being baptized into his death (Contact with Christ's blood so we can have forgiveness).

Also today, at communion, I come in contact with the blood of Christ every Sunday to remind me of the price He paid, and that I am still covered by His blood sacrifice to keep me safe, as He did the Israelites, and to never forget, how His blood covering never ceases to protect me FROM HARM.


FINALLY, after all that, Romans 8:1 says, "There is now no condemnation for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS !!

I LOVE ALL OF THIS WITH A PASSION !! God bless all of you.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[JLB]

JLB my brother.
This is a topic I'm in love with, as the implications are astounding to me. I'll explain why a bit later.

Romans is the book that really speaks to me, on the topic of "Being in Christ."!
Romans 6: 3 says, "Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus, have been baptized into His death." (Where there was "BLOOD" - "MUCH BLOOD of Jesus Christ), and so we come into contact (Symbolically) with the blood of Christ at baptism. See below !!

Then Hebrews 9:22 says, "..the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood (Sacrifice), and without the shedding of blood (sacrifice), there is no forgiveness of sin." (or no remission of sin.)

In Acts 2: 38 we are told to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins.
So, is there any other way NOW, to be forgiven of sins but baptism??
No other way to be forgiven, but through the contact with Christ's (Symbolic) blood at baptism, and without the shedding of blood, Heb. 9:22, there is no forgiveness, because 2 Cor. 5:17, says, " because through the blood of Christ we are redeemed (Bought with the price of Christ's blood), and by His blood we are freed from sin and SAVED.

THIS IS THE EXCITING PART I MENTIONED AT THE BEGINNING.
NOW, remember the Passover, and the Passover lamb and the killing of the sacrificial lambs in Egypt, and the covering of the door post with their blood to save the Israelites from the angel of death and from any harm.

For me, today, Jesus is my sacrificial Passover lamb, who shed His blood on the cross that I come into contact with through baptism (Symbolically), and not only allows me to have my sins forgiven, but covers me daily from harm as the NEW Passover lamb that protects me now, like He did at Passover.

Symbolically we come into contact with the blood of Christ through our real baptism, as it says in Romans 6:3, by being baptized into his death (Contact with Christ's blood so we can have forgiveness).

Also today, at communion, I come in contact with the blood of Christ every Sunday to remind me of the price He paid, and that I am still covered by His blood sacrifice to keep me safe, as He did the Israelites, and to never forget, how His blood covering never ceases to protect me FROM HARM.


FINALLY, after all that, Romans 8:1 says, "There is now no condemnation for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS !!

I LOVE ALL OF THIS WITH A PASSION !! God bless all of you.
My name is OLIGOS

Thank you for your reply.


With that being said, are we to conclude that a person who is in Christ is saved?



JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Thank you for your reply.


With that being said, are we to conclude that a person who is in Christ is saved?



JLB

Your welcome.
It all depends on how they think they got in Christ.
I've heard many opinions on that too, but I'm not a critique or finger pointer,
but with us YES!!

 

[JLB]

Your welcome.
It all depends on how they think they got in Christ.
I've heard many opinions on that too, but I'm not a critique or finger pointer.
We're all growing in Christ in different stages.

I don’t know what you mean by finger pointing , or how engaging in a subject you love is somehow considered as finger pointing.


They only way a person comes to be “in Christ” is they are baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ.


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13


If you know of another way we come to be in Christ then please share.


We are born again by the Spirit. It is the work of the Spirit.




JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

If you know of another way we come to be in Christ then please share.

Well JLB
I remember you asking me this once before some time ago, and it caused me to start a study on what
you say you believe about being saved and the Holy Spirit.
I will try to make some progress on it and get back to you.

Yes, I can give short answers .

 

[JLB]

Well JLB
I remember you asking me this once before some time ago, and it caused me to start a study on what
you say you believe about being saved and the Holy Spirit.
I will try to make some progress on it and get back to you.

Yes, I can give short answers .

I know we all are going to need God’s supernatural love filling us and empowering us to walk in love as we see the days growing dark, and that Day fast approaching. The Lord said that in these last days the love of many will grow cold. I don’t want that in my life. I am desperate for God everyday to fill me with His Spirit, with His supernatural love, because I have seen how pathetic my love is.


We also are in need of developing a love for the truth, even if it goes against some things we currently believe.


Paul says it this way —


The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:9-10

• with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Do we love the truth?



JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

With spiritual growth issues there can be varying beliefs, but only the doctrines that are settled in the “truth” will liberate you from disappointment (Jhn 8:32). Concerning the issue of receiving salvation, there can be no varying beliefs on the essentials of believing in the Lord Jesus’ expiation for our sins. Scripture is directly clear for ease of understanding the latter, but is not always so clear in the former, which answers to the various interpretations concerning spiritual growth issues.

Myself, I believe the difficulties with interpreting the growth truths (esp. the Pauline Epistles) are to allow us to exercise love to one another in the proper manner of patience with wanting to understand one another. After all, everything God does is to this end, to live in His love to Him and to one another (Jhn 13:35); and not as we love ourselves but as He loves us (Jhn 15:12). I believe those with the correct understanding of the growth truths will continue to grow and increasingly find less, if any, disappointments (we should never be disappointed); and those who struggle more than not in apprehending the growth truths will continue to encounter disappointments—but yet are retained in their salvation.

At face value, the spiritual growth truths of the NT of Scripture often appear contradictory (which of course is never actual), and answers to the reason why most Bible commentators utilize the method of “necessary inference” (which opponents call “new inference”) in order to maintain a unified agreement between scriptures. Some commentators use the method of Biblicism (literalism) but results with less success and accurate interpretation.

Example: “Whosoever lives and believes in Me shall never die” (Jhn 11:26).
Apparent contradiction: “Every branch in Me that bears not fruit He takes away” (Jn 15:2).
Inference: Many if not most understand the phrase “in Me” to mean “believes in Me,” and understandably so considering the way it reads. But to avoid contradiction between these two passages it’s required to assume (infer) that “in Me” has the intention that “everyone who professes to believe in Me,” otherwise contradiction cannot be avoided.

John Gill – “There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him, as Simon Magus did; are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ, being in a church state, as the churches of Judea and Thessalonica, and others, are said, in general, to he in Christ; though it is not to be thought that every individual person in these churches were truly and savingly in him.”

John 15 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

Study John 15 using John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible to better understand Scripture with full outline and verse meaning.

www.christianity.com

Example: “in the latter times some shall depart from the faith” (1Ti 4:1).
Inference: “some shall depart from the profession of the faith,” since God keeps those who truly are in the faith from leaving it (Phl 1:6).

John Gill – “that is, from the doctrine of faith, notwithstanding it is indisputably the great mystery of godliness, as it is called in the latter part of the preceding chapter; for from the true grace of faith there can be no final and total apostasy, such as is here designed; for that can never be lost. It is of an incorruptible nature, and therefore more precious than gold that perishes, and Christ is the author and finisher of it.”

1 Timothy 4 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

Study 1 Timothy 4 using John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible to better understand Scripture with full outline and verse meaning.

www.christianity.com

My reason for sharing this is only to be informative of some of the ways commentators reason the Scriptures. I do not expect most to be receptive of this information, but I believe some will benefit. Personally I believe the present lack of spiritual growth will continue until the translation of the Church, in which of course all will come to light.

God’s guidance to all who seek truth over self-justification, and God be blessed in the highest!

Thank you.
I've been asking you for 8 years to address in this manner.
I never had the words.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Thank you for your reply.


With that being said, are we to conclude that a person who is in Christ is saved?



JLB

Is a majority needed for it to apply?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I know we all are going to need God’s supernatural love filling us and empowering us to walk in love as we see the days growing dark, and that Day fast approaching. The Lord said that in these last days the love of many will grow cold. I don’t want that in my life. I am desperate for God everyday to fill me with His Spirit, with His supernatural love, because I have seen how pathetic my love is.


We also are in need of developing a love for the truth, even if it goes against some things we currently believe.


Paul says it this way —


The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:9-10

• with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Do we love the truth?



JLB

I love the truth.
But I don't always agree with you.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Is a majority needed for it to apply?

To me we have to be our own person in Christ.
Romans 14:22 says, "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God,
happy is he who doesn't condemn himself in what he approves."

My name is OLIGOS

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

My name is ROLLO

 

[JLB]

To me we have to be our own person in Christ.
Romans 14:22 says, "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God,
happy is he who doesn't condemn himself in what he approves."

My name is OLIGOS

Amen. The main thing is we are in fact “in Christ”.

I think we can all agree on this one crucial point.

If we are “in Christ” we have eternal life.


The context of Romans 14:22 is about certain foods that were at one time forbidden by the law of Moses but now those of faith have liberty to eat. However even though we have liberty to eat certain foods, it’s not the way of love if our Liberty makes our brother stumble.

Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense.
It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
Romans 14:20-23



JLB

 

[JLB]

Thank you.
I've been asking you for 8 years to address in this manner.
I never had the words.

Im surprised. There are lots of commentaries out there that are aligned with your beliefs. Gill is just one of many.

8 years is a long time to wait. I encourage you to find some good commentaries that believe the way you do, and quote from them.


JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

If we are “in Christ” we have eternal life.

JLB
Because I have such an expanded view on salvation from all my years of study, and staying away from most of the conventional voices of wisdom, and over many decades searched out more and more of the truth on my own through the Holy Spirit and His leading, creating a pretty large library,
the idea of receiving ETERNAL LIFE is much more complex and in depth than many try to simplify and streamline into a sort of "one size fits all", very conventional, contemporary faith, that for me today, can hardly save anyone, because of all that has been lost over nearly 2000 years of the first "Recognized" controlling and political "Church", that not only outlawed certain initial proclaimed Christian values and commands, but murdered many of those believers at the time for not turning away from the heart of their commitment.
The church was literally killing and murdering true believers in huge numbers, and many thousands of others gave in to the changes rather than being slain.

I've studied Church history for decades, back to before the church came through Christ, and I've studies bible history. The honest truth about church history is "shocking."
Do some studying when you can, you'll be "stunned" at the truth.

To me, the expanded view today of who can be saved through nearly any doctrine of belief in Christ, as long as you believe in Christ, and you can attain eternal life through that doctrine, is totally beyond my comprehention that anyone could teach that, let alone believe it.
But that's todays highly evolved Christian type culture.
Matthew 7:14, "FEW WILL BE SAVED.
Luke 13: 23-24, Someone said to Jesus, "Lord are there just a few being saved and Jesus said to them, strive to enter by the narrow door, for many I tell you, will seek to enter, and will not be able."
Matthew 7:21, Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to me LORD, LORD, will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my father.
FEW !!!

My name is OLIGOS

What I have learned and built my own foundation of faith on, has taken decades to find through the Holy Spirit.
What I have come to conclusions about can't be explained in an hour, or a day, or a year, without the foundation I have built, and the leading of the Spirit who has built on that for many, many decades.
It's like learning to be a doctor in an hour - IMPOSSIBLE.
That's why God gives us a life time to study and dig, and use every resource we can find to move us through this labyrinth of almost incalculable opinions of what Christianity is TODAY, so we can find the truth for ourselves, if for no one else, that we can live by and grow from, to be our best for Him, the best we know how.

The most important weapon we have against satan, is our voice before God in prayer, seeking and asking for NOTHING but the truth, and be willing to accept it, as we hear the Holy Spirits voice, and be willing to change whatever we believe at the time, to what we are called to believe as I did, by the Holy Spirit.

It doesn't matter what I say or believe, but pray and listen and ask for nothing but the truth, and you'll find it for your eternal life that you seek.

Remember this.
If you honestly want Gods truth about all of Christianity, go to Him "HUMBLY" in prayer and lay your heart out bare before the Lord, and ask for nothing but the truth, and God will bless you with a faith beyond anything you could imagine asking for, and so much more as a bonus, that will simply "BLOW YOU AWAY."
He did me !!

 

[JLB]

JLB
Because I have such an expanded view on salvation from all my years of study, and staying away from most of the conventional voices of wisdom, and over many decades searched out more and more of the truth on my own through the Holy Spirit and His leading, creating a pretty large library,
the idea of receiving ETERNAL LIFE is much more complex and in depth than many try to simplify and streamline into a sort of "one size fits all", very conventional, contemporary faith, that for me today, can hardly save anyone, because of all that has been lost over nearly 2000 years of the first "Recognized" controlling and political "Church", that not only outlawed certain initial proclaimed Christian values and commands, but murdered many of those believers at the time for not turning away from the heart of their commitment.
The church was literally killing and murdering true believers in huge numbers, and many thousands of others gave in to the changes rather than being slain.

I've studied Church history for decades, back to before the church came through Christ, and I've studies bible history. The honest truth about church history is "shocking."
Do some studying when you can, you'll be "stunned" at the truth.

To me, the expanded view today of who can be saved through nearly any doctrine of belief in Christ, as long as you believe in Christ, and you can attain eternal life through that doctrine, is totally beyond my comprehention that anyone could teach that, let alone believe it.
But that's todays highly evolved Christian type culture.
Matthew 7:14, "FEW WILL BE SAVED.
Luke 13: 23-24, Someone said to Jesus, "Lord are there just a few being saved and Jesus said to them, strive to enter by the narrow door, for many I tell you, will seek to enter, and will not be able."
Matthew 7:21, Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to me LORD, LORD, will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my father.
FEW !!!

My name is OLIGOS

What I have learned and built my own foundation of faith on, has taken decades to find through the Holy Spirit.
What I have come to conclusions about can't be explained in an hour, or a day, or a year, without the foundation I have built, and the leading of the Spirit who has built on that for many, many decades.
It's like learning to be a doctor in an hour - IMPOSSIBLE.
That's why God gives us a life time to study and dig, and use every resource we can find to move us through this labyrinth of almost incalculable opinions of what Christianity is TODAY, so we can find the truth for ourselves, if for no one else, that we can live by and grow from, to be our best for Him, the best we know how.

The most important weapon we have against satan, is our voice before God in prayer, seeking and asking for NOTHING but the truth, and be willing to accept it, as we hear the Holy Spirits voice, and be willing to change whatever we believe at the time, to what we are called to believe as I did, by the Holy Spirit.

It doesn't matter what I say or believe, but pray and listen and ask for nothing but the truth, and you'll find it for your eternal life that you seek.

Remember this.
If you honestly want Gods truth about all of Christianity, go to Him "HUMBLY" in prayer and lay your heart out bare before the Lord, and ask for nothing but the truth, and God will bless you with a faith beyond anything you could imagine asking for, and so much more as a bonus, that will simply "BLOW YOU AWAY."
He did me !!

Thanks for sharing brother.

I see that we have eternal life, now in this life by being
“in Christ”.

IOW, we who have the Spirit of Christ in us, have the Spirit of Life in Christ dwelling in our spirit, by which we know we are sons of God, and call out abba Father.

This Spirit in us is eternal life; this is knowing Him, being one spirit with Christ.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3


But I also see that we will “inherit” eternal life at the resurrection, when we have been judged according to our deeds, in which we will be given eternal life.

Here are a few scriptures that speak to the eternal life we will receive in the future.


But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:4-7


The hope of eternal life speaks about the future. Paul is using the language of faith... the substance of things hoped for.


And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


We have eternal life now because we have His Spirit, the Spirit of Life, which empowers us to live before Him in love, righteousness and peace; to live according to the Spirit rather than the flesh.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


We also have the hope of inheriting eternal life, In the future at the Judgement seat of Christ, because we have His Spirit.







JLB