aLoneVoice said:
For the readers of this Forum, there has been heated debates lately about some Roman Catholic teachings. While I am sure, they have felt on the hot-seat in defense of their beliefs, I believe it is important to continually discuss and at times debate Scripture - so to make sure that the saints are not following false teachings - so as to not be led astray.
Much has been said on both sides of the issue of Sola Scriptura, the "sinlessness" of Mary and her perpetual virginity - to name a few of the recent debates/discussions.
While I have provided my explaination of 2 Thes 2:!5 - I have one question for our Roman Catholic friends. Since you believe in the 'sinlessness' of Mary and her perpetual viriginity - beliefs that have been confessed to as not finding support in the Bible - but rather in Apostolic teaching:
Exactly which Apostle found in the Bible taught those two beliefs?
As 2 Thess 2:15 teachings, we are to hold fast to the teachings of the Apsotles - both oral and written - therefore, to make sure that the teachings of the Roman Catholic teachings are "apostolic" - which Apostles taught them?
A fair question. I will attempt to address it.
We believe that Christ gave His community of believers a body of men with authority to bind and loosen. No one dared to join this body of men unless they were specially called by God. From the very beginning, the Church has had a heirarchy of men who were in charge. These men KNEW they were given a charge by whom THEY believed was God Himself - to go out and teach and preach EVERYTHING taught by Jesus Christ to the entire world. Baptize them. Heal them. Bring along their conversion. And finally, ensure that the doctrine given remained uncorrupted.
It cannot be denied. Christ did NOT leave writings. He did not EVER teach that individuals were meant to pick up Scriptures (presumably OT Scriptures) and read them outside of the understanding of the community. Even in Jesus' time, the Pharisees were to be OBEYED (Mt 23:3). This did not change with the New Covenant. Throughout, we see exhortations to obey those whom God has put above us. Whether secular leaders, or the leaders of the Church.
Now. We have established that Christ left a duly-apppointed body of men to watch over the community. To act as shepherds. To feed the sheep. Christ's sheep. And He promised that He would send His Spirit to guide these men. Thus, the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth - not the Bible. It is THESE MEN whom God is guiding. He even guided them to WRITE letters to other communities - and these communities were able to identify that THOSE writings were inspired by God. Why? Because the people KNEW what they had been taught. ORALLY. From the beginning, Christianity grew as a result of oral teachings.
Now. You want me to tell you which specific apostle taught the "virginity of Mary". That question is not answerable because THAT apostle didn't tell anyone he was the first to relate that teaching. What we DO know is that ALL teachings, both oral and written, were taught to the first Christians. Part of that teaching was that God had given particular men the charism of interpreting and meditating on the meaning of the doctrines given by Christ.
When we consider the role Christ gave to His leaders within the Church and the power to bind and loosen, when we consider the writings that followed the very first generation of Christians, we come to the conclusion that we have some Church teachings as a mustard seed. Thus, some teachings would not become fully developed until later musing upon the Tradition (oral and written) would unlock them.
Thus, Justin the Martyr and Ireneaus and Tertullian were writing that Mary was the New Eve, just as Jesus was the New Adam. These men of the Church had been given the Tradition, the teachings of the Apostles and further analyzed them. What did God reveal to us through these teachings? Anyone who has studied the Sacred Writ will agree with me that we are always unlocking new things about God's written Word. Is it amazing to understand that the second generation would explore and find the kernel of a particular concept within the Apostolic Tradition?
So in closing, what we do is look at what the first Christians believed and did. What did they teach? We presume that God was guiding them to correctly interpret and pass down what THEY had been given. From this body of teachings passed down, they were able to define particular questions that eventually came up...
What WAS the relationship between God and Jesus Christ? This is not clear from Scriptures without any interpretation. Who is the Holy Spirit - if this IS a person? Again, when we take the entire Body of teachings given, the "doctrine" to be preserved, we understand that Christ INTENDED that man continue to discover and learn about Himself. Does anyone think that Paul completely and fully taught the entire doctrine of the Trinity as expounded by Chalcedon some 400 years later? NO! Paul taught a body of teachings. The following leaders of the Church, tasked with continuing to bind and loosen, with feeding the sheep, continued to explore what Paul and others taught, fleshing out what exactly that kernel meant. Thus, the men of Chalcedon, guided by the Spirit, was able to define more precisely what the relationship that Jesus had with His Father.
The same is true of many other teachings that the Church presents to us. They call them Apostolic when they originate from that kernel, that deposit of faith first given to the Apostles. Is it in continuity with the very beginning of our faith? Is it something that the earliest Church appeared to have believed in, even if not completely understanding its full theological implications? If so, then we consider it an Apostolic teaching. Thus, we call the Trinity an Apostolic teaching because the kernel of that doctrine emitted from the oral and written Word given by those apostles. The Scriptures, read through a particular understanding, gave way to properly defining more precisely what we believed all along. Thus, we can say that the Church "always" believed in the Trinity, without fully knowing the theological implications of that belief. Thus, the people could answer "Yes, that is what I believe", not "OK, let's believe that now."
The Church defines for us what we already believe. As such, the Church has stated that it has believed that Mary was sinless when it looks at the Sacred Scriptures in its own particular way, guided by the Spirit and taught by the Apostles.
Regards
