Can you, 'personally' change your fleshly nature?

[Imagican]

Are we capable of changing our fleshly ways and 'take on' that which is holy? Are we, as mere mortals, capable of reading and understanding God's will and take this information and successfully apply it to our lives in a meaningful manor?

 

[Heidi]

No. Human nature trying to fix human nature is the blind leading the blind. Together they will fall into a pit. It's like trying to cure fantasizing through fantasizing! Nor, as Paul says, in Romans 7:7-8, can one "decide" not to sin. "For I would have not known what coveting was if the law had not said; 'Do not covet'. But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the law breeds all sorts of covetous desires in me." Trying to stop sinning on our own is like trying not to think of an elephant when someone tells us not to. It's the first thing we think of.

 

[Imagican]

Good one Heidi.

This is the kind of reply that I had hoped to elicit in this thread.

We are at the mercy of God to change us. It is through NOTHING short of the grace of God that we can learn of Him and through this relationship, allow our love for God to grow to the point that our lives change according to this love.

This is the FULFILLMENT of law. That through it, those of the past were given the definition of behavior that is inspired by love. Unfortunately, those that were given the law learned how to circumvent it rather than to follow it's substance. So, Christ was sent to offer an example of it so that we now have NO LAW that we are bound to, we NOW have a PERFECT example of it to emulate and The Spirit to guide us.

Thus, we now have the means to reunite with the Father through His Son. This allows us the freedom to, once again, love God as He loves us. And through this love, our obedience can be offered through this love instead of through law. Law obeyed for the simple purpose of avoiding punishment means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Yet, law obeyed through the changing of one's heart through our love for God means EVERYTHING.

 

[Heidi]

Absolutely. Amen!

 

[Klee shay]

I believe men can desire to change their fleshly nature; but without the aide of God the change will not be permanent.

I've learned this one the hard way. :

 

[gingercat]

We have to have desire to change, then He will help us to change. We always have to make effort for Him. That's what He is seeking always; if we have our will to be obedient. He does not do anything for us without our permission. It goes for everything. If we want to do His will He help us to do His will. period. It is not an automatical thing like many of us believe or preaching.

 

[Heidi]

We have to have desire to change, then He will help us to change. We always have to make effort for Him. That's what He is seeking always; if we have our will to be obedient. He does not do anything for us without our permission. It goes for everything. If we want to do His will He help us to do His will. period. It is not an automatical thing like many of us believe or preaching.

True. We do have to have the desire, but that desire is from God and is how God draws us. That desire does not come from the devil. We always need to give God the credit for what is good in us, not ourselves.

 

[Imagican]

I offer NOTHING automatic.

What I offer is that we are completely unable to resist sin on our own. But, when we begin to love God and develope a personal relationship with the Father through His Son, HE will offer His love in return. Through this love, our hearts WILL change. Through this change, we will begin to obey God through love and NOT through our own personal efforts. We will then begin to do God's will through HIS changing of our hearts.

Otherwise, we are stuck where most are at this time; trying to do it 'our' way. Limited to our miniscule understanding, we are bound to fail.

If, however, we simply offer our hearts to God, He will make the needed adjustments that will allow us to change and follow Him through love.

 

[gingercat]

Imagican, it seems that you are responding to my comments. Did I say anything different than yours? Why did you have to add to what I say? It sounds like you are offended.

 

[Imagican]

Imagican, it seems that you are responding to my comments. Did I say anything different than yours? Why did you have to add to what I say? It sounds like you are offended.

No offense gingercat, I assure you. I was simply offering that you were correct in that we must make an effort to offer our love to God in order to nurture a relationship that brings about God's willingness to 'change' our hearts. And that without the relationship we can't do it on our own.

 

[gazzamor]

Here is the bible's answer:

Jer 13:23 Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

God bless gazzamor

 

[mondar]

Are we capable of changing our fleshly ways and 'take on' that which is holy? Are we, as mere mortals, capable of reading and understanding God's will and take this information and successfully apply it to our lives in a meaningful manor?

I might be splitting hairs, but the answer to the question relates to several things. First, who is the "we?" If the we includes unbelievers, of course the unbeliever is totally in bondage to sin.

A second question involves the word "fleshly ways." Assuming that the "we" refers to only Christians, if the question is can a Christian change is own fleshly nature. We then have an obvious answer. We can no more change our own nature then sprout wings and fly, or as someone quoted the verse of the lepard changing his spots.

After regeneration, when God has changed the nature of the Christian, we still have a sin nature and can serve the flesh so very easily. Yet with the help of the Holy Spirit, the word of God, and the many ministries of the Holy Spirit, I think it is possibly for Christians to lead lives that are not fleshly or carnal. In this statement I am not saying we can be sinless, but I think God will enable us to lead lives that are not carnal and fleshly.

Such a life might be rare, I see so many Christians under the influence of the law or some law. The law makes the flesh come alive, sin revives, and the christian dies spiritually and serves the flesh.

So if I am understanding the question right (maybe doubtful?), I would say yes, with the work of God, the Christian can lead the spiritual life, and not the fleshly life.

 

[cyberjosh]

We cannot do it ourself. It is the Holy Spirit which gives us the power to sanctify ourselves but we must apply it. It is something we can fail to do: apply the empowering grace of the Holy Spirit. But it is clear that when we do utilize it, it is the Holy Spirit which works in us. The Greek word for work is energia, from which we get the word energy. The Holy Spirit empowers and works in us to change us.

~Josh

 

[stranger]

Hi folks,

So long as the word 'change' presupposes 'dying' to sin and therefore dying to the sin nature, I am in agreement with what has been said. The sin nature itself cannot be changed, progressively or otherwise - but only put to death. So long as 'the old man' is reprieved of his death sentence, contrary to Romans 6: 1-4, folks will try to change Dr Hyde. So the dying of the old and the resurrection of the new is expressed severally in scripture: eg New wine in new wineskins, you must be born again, consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus, put off the old man .. put on the new etc. In each description there is a complete death of the old and a resurrection of the new - in contrast to a change of the old into the new.

In other words there has to be a death of the old nature (and this is the point - there was when Jesus died): He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him 2 Cor 5:21.

If you had an 'old coat' worse for wear and a 'new coat' would you wear the old one under the new one? What would you do with the old coat?

 

[unred typo]

Imagican on Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:40 am
I offer NOTHING automatic.

What I offer is that we are completely unable to resist sin on our own. But, when we begin to love God and develope a personal relationship with the Father through His Son, HE will offer His love in return. Through this love, our hearts WILL change. Through this change, we will begin to obey God through love and NOT through our own personal efforts. We will then begin to do God's will through HIS changing of our hearts.

Otherwise, we are stuck where most are at this time; trying to do it 'our' way. Limited to our miniscule understanding, we are bound to fail.

If, however, we simply offer our hearts to God, He will make the needed adjustments that will allow us to change and follow Him through love.

Sounds lovely, lacks substance. Also it is not biblically correct. We are told point blank to resist the devil. When we obey and resist, God is with us. When we disobey and let the flesh rule over us, we risk harm in several ways. We are outside of God’s will, we have grieved his spirit and we set ourselves up for punishment and a fall into perdition if we don‘t repent. To proclaim that we cannot resist sin is to deny the fact that God will not allow us to be tempted above that which we are able to resist.

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that you may be able to bear it.

 

[unred typo]

In answer to your OP question, “Can you, 'personally' change your fleshly nature?†I agree with stranger ’s (Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:02 pm ) post. In our flesh and blood bodies there is no good thing that we are to try to change. We don’t have to reform our self serving egos nor train our bodies to welcome dying to self. We are simply to deny it’s evil desires and put the unholy lusts to death. When we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Ephesians 2:2-3 Wherein in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.