Bible Study Noah and Lot - The Ramifications of the Rapture

[dirtfarmer]

The teaching of the millennial kingdom is found only once in the ecstatic vision of John at Rev 20:4. Since it is highly symbolic, apocalyptic literature, I believe it is imprudent to take a literal view of the passage. The Revelation is the work of its author to record in human language ecstatic visions which cannot be precisely reduced to words. To take a literal view of the his efforts to describe those visions is, IMO, unfounded and prone to serious error.

I take 1000 years to be understood as "a long time" which understanding is in harmony with Jesus' statement at Matthew 28:18 that all power and authority in heaven and on earth had already been given to him prior to his ascension and with the teaching of Paul that the church is the body of Christ (1Co 12:27) being one flesh with Christ (Eph 5:31-32) and is, therefore, the presence of Christ and the kingdom of God on earth.

That Satan will be bound for the symbolic 1000 years is also in harmony with the teaching of Jesus at Mat 16:19 and 18:18 that the church has the power and authority to bind Satan and his minions.

So I do believe in the millennial reign of Christ from an amillennialist perspective of the 1000 years meaning "a long time.."

iakov the fool

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here
How do you interpret Revelation 20:6-7 " Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison."

 

[Jim Parker]

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here
How do you interpret Revelation 20:6-7 " Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison."

The first resurrection: I have been buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, (I) too might walk in newness of life. Ro 6:4.
I understand that to say that a baptized believer has died by being joined with Christ in His death and raised again to new life in Christ. That's the first resurrection.

The second death has no power over those who united to Christ in His death and were born again to newness of life in the waters of baptism.

1000 year reign: Christ said He began his rule in heaven and earth before His ascension. (Mat 28:18)
The church is His body so the church reigns with Christ and has been since Mar 28:18. (Or since Pentecost, anyway)
In light of the fact that, according to Mat 28:18, Jesus has been reigning for 2000 years already, the 1000 years mentioned in the ecstatic, apocalyptic, and highly symbolic literature we call the Revelation mut, therefore, be understood as symbolic of "a long time."

That;s how I see it.

(Individual mileage may vary)

iakov the fool

 

[dirtfarmer]

The first resurrection: I have been buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, (I) too might walk in newness of life. Ro 6:4.
I understand that to say that a baptized believer has died by being joined with Christ in His death and raised again to new life in Christ. That's the first resurrection.

The second death has no power over those who united to Christ in His death and were born again to newness of life in the waters of baptism.

1000 year reign: Christ said He began his rule in heaven and earth before His ascension. (Mat 28:18)
The church is His body so the church reigns with Christ and has been since Mar 28:18. (Or since Pentecost, anyway)
In light of the fact that, according to Mat 28:18, Jesus has been reigning for 2000 years already, the 1000 years mentioned in the ecstatic, apocalyptic, and highly symbolic literature we call the Revelation mut, therefore, be understood as symbolic of "a long time."

That;s how I see it.

(Individual mileage may vary)

iakov the fool

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

Water baptism is not the first resurrection.
Matthew 27:52-53 " And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared to many." What resurrection was this?

 

[Jim Parker]

Water baptism is not the first resurrection.

That is your opinion.
You are free to hold to it and I am free to disagree.

Matthew 27:52-53 " And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared to many." What resurrection was this?

Those people did not rise to eternal life or eternal punishment.
Just like Lazarus and the widow's son whom Jesus raised from the dead, they all died again.
You are conflating two different concepts.

 

[dirtfarmer]

That is your opinion.
You are free to hold to it and I am free to disagree.

Those people did not rise to eternal life or eternal punishment.
Just like Lazarus and the widow's son whom Jesus raised from the dead, they all died again.
You are conflating two different concepts.

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

Where in scripture does it state that they returned to their graves?.

If you study the harvest, you find that the harvest was in 3 stages:
1. The harvest of first fruits. First fruits did not consist of only one stalk of grain but a handful. This was what happened in Matthew 27:52
2. The main harvest . Gathering or calling out of a body of believers. The establishment of the body of Christ. which is happening now
3. The gleanings of the fields. This will happen when the Jewish remnant will be established as the earthly kingdom .

 

[JLB]

By that statement of the angel, I conclude that the teaching of a pretribulation "rapture" is incorrect because (again) in order to "come out" of something (like the "great tribulation") one must first be IN the thing from which one comes out.

I fully agree with you, Jim.

There is no such thing as the pre-tribulation rapture.

The Rapture happens at the time of the resurrection, as one event... at His coming [Parousia].

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Caught up together with them, is the raptured ones caught up together with the resurrected ones. One Event: Rapture/Resurrection.

This is called "The Gathering", whereby all of those who are Christ's are "gathered together" unto Him... at His coming [Parousia].

The same "coming" [Parousia], by which the antichrist is destroyed.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


How can the antichrist be destroyed before the tribulation, by the brightness of His coming?

Answer: the antichrist is destroyed by the brightness of His coming, after the tribulation, at the time of the resurrection/rapture.


JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

Where in scripture does it state that they returned to their graves?.

It doesn't.
Neither does it say that was the "first resurrection."
And I certainly hope you are not trying to say that those people are still walking around today.

 

[Jim Parker]

I fully agree with you, Jim.

There is no such thing as the pre-tribulation rapture.

The Rapture happens at the time of the resurrection, as one event... at His coming [Parousia].

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Caught up together with them, is the raptured ones caught up together with the resurrected ones. One Event: Rapture/Resurrection.

This is called "The Gathering", whereby all of those who are Christ's are "gathered together" unto Him... at His coming [Parousia].

The same "coming" [Parousia], by which the antichrist is destroyed.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


How can the antichrist be destroyed before the tribulation, by the brightness of His coming?

Answer: the antichrist is destroyed by the brightness of His coming, after the tribulation, at the time of the resurrection/rapture.


JLB

Sounds like we're on the same page.

iakov the fool