Paganistic Roman Practices - Baptism

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I'd Like to Start a New Post on a Subject Which Most of the Board Members Have Seemed to Ignored. The Fact that Roman Catholicism was born out of the efforts of the post apostolic age by men more desposed to paganism than the Judeo culture from which it sprang. The impotance of this cannot be diminished. If for a fact or at least reasonibly assertained that Romans, under the guise of a "true apostoletic" church willing knew, disguised, or acted with subtrifuge to introduce pagans and paganism into the church (Roman Catholic) for the purpose of bringing everyone under the banner of its authority.

Jer 10:14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Luk 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

This is a short list of various works on Religion, Myth and Ancient Culture. Which could be suppliment by others on the same subjects. Here are a few Quotes made by authors in authority that now exactly the ideas I would like to express in these posts!

The Golden Bough by James Frazier
The Making Of Religion by Andrew Lang
The Master Counterfeiter by Murl Vance
The Cult of the Mother Goddess by E.O. James
Pagan Christs and Christianity and Mythology by J. M. Robertson
Pagan and Christian Creeds: Their Origin and Meaning by Edward Carpenter

Heroes and Hero-Worship by Thomas Carlyle
"Pagan Religion is indeed an Allegory, a Symbol of what men felt and knew about the Universe; and all Religions are symbols of that."

The Religion of Numa by Jesse Benedict Carter
"If we realise that in a primitive religion the name of the god is usually the same as the name of the thing which he represents, the existence of a Greek god and a Roman god with names which correspond to the same Indo-Germanic word proves linguistically that the thing existed and had a name before the separation"

The Queen of the Air by John Ruskin
"To deal with Greek religion honestly, you must at once understand that this literal belief was, in the mind of the general people, as deeply rooted as ours in the legends of our own sacred book; and that a basis of unmiraculous event was as little suspected, and an explanatory symbolism as rarely traced, by them, as by us.

In the preface to Bulfinch's Mythology his purpose was "by [the] telling [of] the stories of mythology ... We have endeavored to tell them correctly, according to the ancient authorities, so that when the reader finds them referred to he may not be at a loss to recognize the reference. Thus we hope to teach mythology not as a study ... [but] to impart a knowledge of an important branch of education ... and make it a Classical Dictionary."

HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH By Philip Schaff
Notwithstanding this essential apostasy from truth and holiness, heathenism was religion, a groping after "the unknown God." By its superstition it betrayed the need of faith. Its polytheism rested on a dim monotheistic background; it subjected all the gods to Jupiter, and Jupiter himself to a mysterious fate. It had at bottom the feeling of dependence on higher powers and reverence for divine things. It preserved the memory of a golden age andof a fall. It had the voice of conscience, and a sense, obscure though it was, of guilt. It felt the need of reconciliation with deity, and sought that reconciliation by prayer, penance, and sacrifice. Many of its religious traditions and usages were faint echoes of the primal religion; and its mythological dreams of the mingling of the gods with men, of demigods, of Prometheus delivered by Hercules from his helpless sufferings, were unconscious prophecies and fleshly anticipations of Christian truths. This alone explains the great readiness with which heathens embraced the gospel, to the shame of the Jews. Matt. 8:10; 15:28. Luke 7:9. Acts 10:35.

This Article for now will only deal with baptism, initiation rites and even possesion and exorcist as strange as that may sound. Then we might move on to Mary worship, or Infalliblity issues. Please site sources. If your a Catholic (or even a Non-Catholic) and you've just come here to destroy this thread don't. If you would like to show evidence against this please do. by showing a secular source that proves your point and some corresponding Bible verse that backs the Idea up. PLEASE KEEP THE ARTICLE TO SCREEN SIZE LENGTH AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE.

 

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http://www.catholictradition.org/Classics/salvation.htm
The Opening Caption Reads "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church"
According to "Bishop HAY'S - Sincere Christian"

Regeneration by baptism is a fundamental article of Rome. So important, according to Rome, is baptism that it is pronounced of "absolute necessity for salvation," insomuch that infants dying without it cannot be admitted to glory. It is pronounced to be "the first door by which we enter into the fold of Jesus Christ, the first means by which we receive the grace of reconciliation with God; therefore the merits of His death are by baptism applied to our souls in so superabundant a manner, as fully to satisfy Divine justice for all demand's against us, whether for original or actual sin." There are two exceptions to this statement; the case of an infidel converted in a heathen land, where it is impossible to get baptism, and the case of a martyr "baptised," as it is called, "in his own blood"; but in all other cases, whether of young or old, the necessity is "absolute."

http://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-salvation.html
Baptismal regeneration is not a Biblical concept. Baptism does not save from sin, but from a bad conscience. Peter clearly taught that baptism was not a ceremonial act of physical purification, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. Baptism is the symbol of what has already occurred in the heart and life of one who has trusted Christ as Savior (Romans 6:3-5; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12).

Now, in most respects Catholic doctrine is totally anti-Scriptural; and I'll show it is purely Pagan. The Lord Jesus Christ has declared that infants, "Suffer the little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Yet the most venerable and highly estemed Roman Catholic Bishop Hay, in defiance of very principle of God's own Word, doesn't hesitate to state: " What becomes of young children who die without baptism? If a young child were put to death for the sake of Christ, this would be to it the baptism of blood, and carry it to heaven; but except in this case, as such infant's are incapable of having the desire of baptism ... if they are not actually baptised with water, THEY CANNOT GO TO HEAVEN."

Since this doctrine never came from the Bible, where did it come from? Well, it came from the principles and practices of ancient Rome handed down to the RC church. One can see just from the statements offered here, hints of Roman paganism and the heathen concept of purgatory within it. Aeneas, of Virgil's Aenaid, a Roman, visiting the infernal regions, found the souls of unhappy infants who had died before receiving, "the rites" and I'll say of "Thee Church": "Before the gates the cries of babes new-born, Whom fate had from their tender mothers torn, Assault his ears." These poor souls of babes, to glory, virtue and efficacy of the mystic rites of Paganism, are excluded from the Elysian Fields, the paradise of the heathen, and have among their nearest associates, persons no better company than those of guilty suicide:"The next in place and punishment are they Who prodigally threw their souls away, Fools, who, repining at their wretched state, And loathing anxious life, suborned their fate." Between the infants and the suicides one other class is interposed, that is, those who on earth have been unjustly condemned to die. Hope is held out for these, but no hope is held out for the babes.

 

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William H. Prescott in the "Conquest of Mexico" who is known to have displayed great research, impartiality, and admirable narrative power, talks about the practice of baptismal regeneration found in among the natives in Mexico. Prescott states when Cortez landed on their shores he, his men and the the Spanish Roman Catholic missionaries beheld with astonishment the ceremony of Mexican baptism.

"When everything necessary for the baptism had been made ready, all the relations of the child were assembled, and the midwife, who was the person that performed the rite of baptism, was summoned. At early dawn, they met together in the courtyard of the house. When the sun had risen, the midwife, taking the child in her arms, called for a little earthen vessel of water, while those about her placed the ornaments, which had been prepared for baptism, in the midst of the court. To perform the rite of baptism, she placed herself with her face toward the west, and immediately began to go through certain ceremonies...After this she sprinkled water on the head of the infant, saying, 'O my child, take and receive the water of the Lord of the world, which is our life, which is given for the increasing and renewing of our body. It is to wash and to purify. I pray that these heavenly drops may enter into your body, and dwell there; that they may destroy and remove from you all the evil and sin which was given you before the beginning of the world, since all of us are under its power'... She then washed the body of the child with water, and spoke in this manner: 'Whencesoever thou comest, thou that art hurtful to this child, leave him and depart from him, for he now liveth anew, and is BORN ANEW; now he is purified and cleansed afresh, and our mother Chalchivitylcue [the goddess of water] bringeth him into the world.' Having thus prayed, the midwife took the child in both hands, and, lifting him towards heaven, said, 'O Lord, thou seest here thy creature, whom thou hast sent into the world, this place of sorrow, suffering, and penitence. Grant him, O Lord, thy gifts and inspiration, for thou art the Great God, and with thee is the great goddess.'"

Since Rome believes baptism is absolutely necessary to salvation, it also authorizes midwives to administer baptism. In the quote above the midwife seems to have been a priestess. Here is fused baptismal regeneration and exorcism. According to the venerable Catholic Bishop hays in Sincere Christian "In the Romish ceremony of baptism, the first thing the priest does is to exorcise the devil out of the child to be baptised in these words, "Depart from him, thou unclean spirit, and give place to the Holy Ghost the Comforter." In the New Testament there is not the slightest hint of any suchexorcism accompanying Baptism. It is apurely Pagan practice.

According to Alexander von Humboldt, A great mind and innovative thinker in the restless pursuit of truth during a time of revolutionary ferment across Europe, on his epoch journey in the New World, says that in regards to the ancient traditions collected by Bishop Francis Nunez de la Vega,"the Wodan of the Chiapanese of Mexico was grandson of that illustrious old man, who at the time of the great deluge, in which the greater part of the human race perished, was saved on a raft, together with his family. Wodan co-operated in the construction of the great edifice which had been undertaken by men to reach the skies; the execution of this rash project was interrupted; each family received from that time a different language; and the great spirit
Teotl ordered Wodan to go and people the country of Anahuac."

This proves the mythology and the doctrine of baptismal regeneration which the Mexicans held in common with other pagans of the Old World. Prestcott, at first, cast doubts on the genuiness of this tradition, as being too exactly coincidental with the Scriptural history to be easily believed. But the distinguished Humboldt, who had carefully examined the matter, and who had no prejudice to warp him, expresses his full belief in its correctness. From Prestcott's own pages, it may be proved that in every essential fact, that name been borne by some illustrious hero was among the ancestors of the Mexican race.

The ancient Mexicans had one of their days called Wodansday, exactly as we ourselves have. This, taken in connection with all the circumstances, is a very striking proof, at once of the unity of the human race concerning myth. Despite the wide spread diffusion of the Mystery System that began at Babel, it was adopted by ancient Aztecs. The doctrine of regeneration by baptism, the commemoration of the flood, of the ark, and the grand events in the life of Noah, was mingled with the worship of the Queen of Heaven and her son.

 

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According to Mallet's Northern Antiquities (referenced through Thomas Bullfinch's work); an Historical Account of the Manners, Customs, Religion and Laws, Maritime Expeditions and Discoveries, Language and Literature of the Ancient Scandinavians, Noah, as known by pagans, as having lived in two worlds, both before the flood and after it, was called "Dipheus,"or "twice-born," and was represented as a god with two heads looking in opposite directions, the one old, and the other young. The name of one of Odin's sons indicates the meaning of Odin's own name. Balder (Tammuz), for whose death such lamentations were made, seems evidently the Chaldean form of Baal-zer, "The seed of Baal." "Balder again, the White God, the beautiful, the just and benignant (whom the early Christian Missionaries found to resemble Christ), is the Sun, beautifullest of visible things; wondrous too, and divine still", Thomas Carlyle Hero's and Hero worship. Baal and Adon both alike signify "Lord"; and, therefore, if Balder be admitted to be the seed or son of Baal, he is the son of Adon; Adon and
Odin must be the same.

Eze 8:14-16 states: Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshiped the sun toward the east.

If these ancient Jews weren't worshiping God, why would Pagan Roman Catholic's be exempt, if the practices and the rituals and the god behind it are the same?

http://www.piney.com/BabLamTam.html
This poem illustrates what Ezekiel may have seen heard in vision, when in spirit he was brought to the northern gate of the temple and heard women wailing for Tammuz. Ezekiel 8:14 George A. Barton, Archaeology and the Bible, Seventh Edition, pg. 533-534 The women were lamenting for Tammuz while the men bowed to the sun in the east.

Excerpts from Lament Of The Flutes For Tammuz
Which shows the Husband, the Son, were one and the same under different names Who they attributed him to be, Associated with the Queen of Heaven.

The lord of destiny lives no more.
Tammuz lives no more.
The bewailed one lives no more.
I am queen, my husband lives no more.
My son lives no more,
Dagalushumagalanna lives no more.
The lord of Arallu lives no more.
The lord of Durgurgurru lives no more.
The shepherd, the lord Tammuz lives no more.
The lord, the shepherd of the folds lives no more.
The concort of the queen of heaven lives no more.
My good maiden, because of the lord,
The hero, your lord has been destroyed.
The god of grain, the child, your lord, has been destroyed.

The same was the case also in Egypt; for there Horus the child was sometimes represented as torn in pieces, as Osiris had been. Clemens Alexandrinus says (Cohortatio), "they lament an infant torn in pieces by the Titans." The lamentations for Balder are very plainly the counterpart of the lamentations for Adonis; and, of course, Balder. The lamentation prove him to have been, the favourite form of the Scandinavian Messiah, or Adon, Aton or "Lord," as well as his father.

The name of the other son of Odin, the mighty and warlike Thor, strengthens all the foregoing conclusions. Ninyas, the son of Ninus or Nimrod, on his father's death, when idolatry rose again, was, of course, from the nature of the mystic system, set up as Adon, "the Lord." Now, as Odin had a son called Thor, so the Assyrian Adon had a son called Thouros. The name Thouros seems just to be another form of Zoro, or Doro, "the seed". Photius tells us that among the Greeks Thoros signified "Seed."

 

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Legends of (the two headed) Janus, we find statements not only in regard to his being the "Father of the world," but also his being "the inventor of ships," which must have been borrowed from the history of Noah, and is therefore remarkable in resemblance. The history of the great Diluvian patriarch two-fold life is referred to in the Gen 6:9 says "Noah was just a man, and perfect in his generation(s)," meaning, his life before and after the flood. The mythology of Greece and Rome, as well as Asia, is full of the history and deeds of Noah. In India, the god Vishnu, "the Preserver," who is celebrated as having miraculously preserved one righteous family at the time when the world was drowned, not only has the story of Noah wrought up with his legend, but is called by his very name, through transliteration. Vishnu is the Sanscrit form of the Chaldee "Ish-nuh," "the man Noah," or the "Man of rest."

The connection of "regeneration" with the history of Noah, shows us with special significance in accounts handed down to us in the Mysteries celebrated in Egypt. The most learned explorer of Egyptian antiquities, Sir Gardiner Wilkinson, admits that the story of Noah was mixed with the
story of Osiris. The ship of Isis, and the coffin of Osiris, floating on the waters, pointdistinctly to that remarkable event. There were different periods, in different places in Egypt, when the fate of Osiris was lamented; and at one time there was more special reference to the personal history of "the mighty hunter before the Lord," and at another to the awful catastrophe through which Noah passed. In the great and solemn festival called "The Disappearance of Osiris," it is evident that it is Noah himself who was then supposed to have been lost. The time when Osiris was "shut up in his coffin," and when that coffin was set afloat on the waters, as stated by Plutarch, agrees exactly with the period when Noah entered the ark. That time was "the 17th day of the month Athyr, when the overflowing of the Nile had ceased, when the nights were growing long and the days decreasing." The month Athyr was the second month after the autumnal equinox, at which time the Civil Year of the Jews and the Patriarchs began.

Accordingly, then, Osiris was "shut up in his coffin" on the 17th day of the second month of the patriarchal year. Comparing this with the Scriptural account of Noah's entering into the ark, it can be seen how remarkably they agree. Genesis 7:11 states "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the SECOND MONTH, in the SEVENTEENTH DAY of the month, were all the fountains of the great deep broken up; in the self- same day entered Noah into the ark." The period, too, that Osiris (otherwise known as Adonis, in this tale) was believed to have been shut up in his coffin. It is precisely the same Noah who was confined in the ark, a whole year.

Theocritus speaking of Adonis was delivered by Venus from Acheron, or the infernal regions, after being there for a year. But as the tale of Egypt, is evidently Osiris that ishe refering to, he was the Adonis of the Egyptians. Statements of Plutarch demonstrate that, Osiris in his festivals was looked upon as dead and buried when put into his ark or coffin, and committed to the deep, so, when at length he came out of it again, that new state was regarded as a state of "new life," or "REGENERATION." Plutarch states in De Iside et Osiride, that it was in the character of Osiris represented as having been "buried" in the waters. In his own character, as Osiris, he had another burial altogether.

1 Peter 3:20-21 states When once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight (Adamic) souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

There seems no reason not to believe that passing through the flood, God granted the patriarchal saints, a righteousness representative of the power of the blood and Spirit of Christ, saving from wrath, and cleansing from all sin. Noah and his companions were "sealed" and it was a confirmation of faith to those who believed. Whatever primitive truth pagan priests held, they utterly perverted and corrupted the true meaning of it. They willingly overlook the fact, that it was "the righteousness of the faith" which Noah displayed before the flood, that carried him safely through the waters of that dreaded catastrophe. It ushered him in as it were, from the womb of the ark, by a new birth, into a new world. Pagans on the contrary led their votaries to believe that, if they only passed through the baptismal waters, with the penances connected, that it in and of itself would make them" "twice-born," or "regenerate." This they assumed would entitle them to the privileges of "righteousness", and give them that "new birth" (palingenesia) which their consciences told them they so much needed. The Papacy acts on precisely the same principle; and from this very source has its doctrine of baptismal regeneration been derived. So much has been written and so many controversies have stired about it that it cannot be denied by its dogma's.

 

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Rome has also copied the Pagan exorcism in connection with baptism. Other practices associated with Romish baptism, such as the use of salt, spit, chrism (A mixture of olive oil and balsam, blessed by a bishop in a special manner and used in the administration of certain sacraments), anointing with oil, and marking the forehead with the sign of the cross, are equally Pagan. Some of Rome's own advocates have admitted that some of these have not been derived from Scripture.

Jodocus Tiletanus of Louvaine, defending the doctrine of "Unwritten Tradition," does not hesitate to say, "We are not satisfied with that which the apostles or the Gospel do declare, but we say that, as well before as after, there are divers matters of importance and weight accepted and received out of a doctrine which is nowhere set forth in writing. For we do blesse the water wherewith we baptize, and the oyle wherewith we annoynt; yea, and besides that, him that is christened. And (I pray you) out of what Scripture have we learned the same? Have we it not of a secret and unwritten ordinance? And further, what Scripture hath taught us to grease with oyle? Yea, I pray you, whence cometh it, that we do dype the childe three times in the water? Doth it not come out of this hidden and undisclosed doctrine, which our forefathers have received closely without any curiosity, and do observe it still."

Louvaine maintains that "the hidden and undisclosed doctrine" of which he speaks, was the "unwritten word" handed down through the channel of infallibility, from the Apostles of Christ to his own time. But shouldn't the reader entertain a different opinion of the sources from which this hidden and undisclosed doctrine must have come? The venerable Catholic Father
Newman himself admits, in regard to "holy water" that, the water impregnated with "salt," and consecrated, are "the very instruments and appendages of demon-worship" that they were all of Pagan origin, and "sanctified by adoption into the Church." What? How can this adoption "hidden and undisclosed" have been passed down by the apostles? Newman also says, that the Church had "confidence in the power of Christianity to resist the infection of evil," and to transmute them to "an evangelical use." What right has the RC Church to entertain such thoughts? Let the history of the Roman Catholic Church bear testimony to the vanity of such a hope.

The rites of baptism to use "spittle" and an examination of the very words of the Roman ritual, in applying it, will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that its use has come from the Ancient Babylonian Mystery System. The Good Old Boy, Bishop Hay says "The priest recites another exorcism, and at the end of it touches the ear and nostrils of the person to be baptised with a little spittle, saying, 'Ephpheta, Be thou opened into an odour of sweetness; but be thou put to flight, O Devil, for the judgment of God will be at hand.'" What vanity, what conceivable connection can there be between spit, and an "odour of sweetness"? (See Mark 7:34)

As you'll see, "spit" In the Mysteries System is just another symbol for the same thing in Roman Catholicism. In Egypt, through which the Babylonian system passed to Western Europe, the name of the "Pure or Purifying Spirit" was "Rekh" according to Baron Christian Von Bunsen diplomat and scholar, but "Rekh" also signified "spittle" according John Parkhurst's Hebrew, Greek and English Lexicons; so that to anoint the nose and ears of the initiated with "spittle," according to the mystic system, was held to be anointing them with the "Purifying Spirit."

Rome adopted the Chaldean ritual in which "spittle" was the appointed emblem of the "Spirit." Bishop Hay says again, "the reason for anointing the ears with spittle, is because by the grace of baptism, the ears of our soul are opened to hear the Word of God, and the inspirations of His
Holy Spirit." So what does the "odour of sweetness" have to do with spit and anointing? The answer is the word "Rekh," which signified the "Holy Spirit," and was represented by "spittle," was connected with "Rikh," which signifies a "fragrant smell," or an "odour of sweetness."

This primitive truth concealed the "spittle," under the spirit of Paganism. It is opposed to the Hebrew Patriarchal Customs, and indeed is intended to make it void, and to draw men away from Scripture, pretending all the while to do homage to it. The magic use of "spittle" became the symbol of the grossest superstition. Theocritus shows with what debasing rites it was mixed up in Sicily and Greece; and Persius scorns the people of Rome on their superstitions to avert the "evil eye."

Our superstitions with our life begin;
The obscene old grandam, or the next of kin,
The new born infant from the cradle takes,
And first of spittle a lustration makes;
Then in the spawl her middle finger dips,
Anoints the temples, forehead, and the lips,
Pretending force of magic to prevent
By virtue of her nasty excrement.