The sinful nature vs. the spiritual nature

[Heidi]

The sinful nature is all about "I", "me", what can benefit me, who can serve me. The spiritual nature is all about God, what God does, how to glorify God.

The sinful nature says; "I chose to believe in God because I'm intelligent and righteous enough to do so."

The spiritual nature says; "No one seeks God". "God woke me up, opened my eyes, keeps me strong, leads me out of temptation, delivers me from evil, and saves me from my sins."

But sadly, there are too many "Christians" who read the bible with their sinful nature that's all about their works, their choices, their righteousness. That's called self-righeousness because it glorifies the self, not God.

But born again Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit which comes from God. So the righteousness of born again Christians comes from God, not ourselves. That's why born again Christians know that "it does not therefore depened on man's own desire or effort but on God's mercy."

Born again Christians know; "There is not one righteous man, not even one." That's because born again Christians can see the depth and degree of our own sins so we know we're not righteous without the Holy Spirit. We also know that we can't even believe God without the Holy Spirit as 1 Corinthians 2:14 confirms.

So those of you who want to glorify yourselves, thinking it's your choice to come to God, your works that save you, you need to remember Christ's words, "He who exalts hismelf will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

 

[biblecatholic]

The sinful nature says; "I chose to believe in God because I'm intelligent and righteous enough to do so."
The spiritual nature says; "No one seeks God". "God woke me up, opened my eyes, keeps me strong, leads me out of temptation, delivers me from evil, and saves me from my sins.""
But sadly, there are too many "Christians" who read the bible with their sinful nature that's all about their works, their choices, their righteousness. That's called self-righeousness because it glorifies the self, not God.

I agree that God wakes us up. I disagree with your personal interpretation on works(which faith is a work and a grace).

But born again Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit which comes from God. So the righteousness of born again Christians comes from God, not ourselves. That's why born again Christians know that "it does not therefore depened on man's own desire or effort but on God's mercy."

I think you are misrepresenting. All christians know salvation depends on the mercy of God

Born again Christians know; "There is not one righteous man, not even one." That's because born again Christians can see the depth and degree of our own sins so we know we're not righteous without the Holy Spirit. We also know that we can't even believe God without the Holy Spirit as 1 Corinthians 2:14 confirms.

your right to have faith is a gift(grace)...

" none is righteous" I don not agree with the way you personally interpret this verse. There are so many called righteous in the scriptures, even the prayer of the righteous man avails much.

So those of you who want to glorify yourselves, thinking it's your choice to come to God, your works that save you, you need to remember Christ's words, "He who exalts himself will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

What denomination are you? I think it would help me understand your interpretation better

 

[Heidi]

It's not my personal interpretation, it's what the bible says. So since I don't change the bible to have a "personal" interpretation, then I believe Ephesians 2:8-9 as written, unike the catholics who change any words they want; "For it is by Grace you have been saved (notice the past tense, which the Catholics ignore) through faith-and this, not from yourselves-it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."

So since our salvation can't be gained by works, then neither can we lose salvation by a lack of works. Salvation is a gift from God precisely because we cannot be righteous on our own. So you are in error.

Excuse me? Where are my words in that verse? :o They are not there because I didn't write the bible. So claiming that's my interpretation is a blatant falsehood. So until you can discern between the words in the bible and other peopl's interpretation of those words, then you wil be confused as to what the bible actually says. So stick with the bible and stop chaning the words around to make them say something different.

 

[biblecatholic]

It's the way you use the scripture verses when framing your arguments. Which is your interpretation. When you use "none are righteous" from the scriptures to make out like no one is righteous, but the scriptures called John the Baptist righteous. All I'm saying is that I don't agree with the interpretation of the scriptures that you use. What denomination do you belong to, it would help me know in discussing that way I know the lens you look through

 

[francisdesales]

It's not my personal interpretation, it's what the bible says.

One single sentence can mean a LOT. When we read the Bible, it is ALWAYS subject to interpretation.

I believe Ephesians 2:8-9 as written, unike the catholics who change any words they want; "For it is by Grace you have been saved (notice the past tense, which the Catholics ignore) through faith-and this, not from yourselves-it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."

And why were we made again, Heidi? To do what? Oh, to do good works! Your personal interpretation likes to leave that verse out, doesn't it. Even Eph 2:8-9 can be misinterpreted. What does "save" mean, for example? You take too much for granted.

So since our salvation can't be gained by works, then neither can we lose salvation by a lack of works. Salvation is a gift from God precisely because we cannot be righteous on our own. So you are in error.

WHO HAS MADE THE CLAIM THAT WE ARE RIGHTEOUS ON OUR OWN? Typical of you and your "interpretation", you invent some straw man called "Catholic beliefs that are against the Bible" and proceed to beat it up! Where exactly does the Catholic Church say that we are saved by our own works? Where does it say we can be righteous on our own? You are in error because you don't even KNOW what Catholics believe.

Excuse me? Where are my words in that verse? :o

You interpret EVERY verse in the Bible with a particular paradigm in mind. That is how we ALL approach the Bible. IF the Bible was so clear that everyone could read and understand what its intent was, then WHY OH WHY do so many "spirit-filled Protestants" disagree with each other???

Interpretation...

Isn't it clear that people here can go back and forth and list many Scripture quotes that show you in error? Isn't it clear that many people here read Eph 2 a bit differently than you - because they understand God's intent and other Scriptures differently?

Regards