Will the Real Paul Please Stand Up?

[unred typo]

Note: The title of this thread was changed from "Paul's False Gospel" by suggestion of vic C. and destiny. Paul did not preach a false gospel but what he preached has been perverted into false teaching by misguided theologians. His real gospel was the same as that of Christ and the disciples.

The biggest difference between Paul’s teaching and Christ is the way they are handled by false teachers today. Some have perverted Paul’s writings and made him sound like the vicar of ‘free grace’ and ‘workless faith‘. They have taken his sermons written against making the Gentiles perform ceremonies meant to distinguish the Jews as God’s people and made it sound like he was against following the commands of Christ. They have reduced Paul’s gospel to a few facts about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and omitted the true message of following Christ’s teaching that Paul constantly affirms. When you hear a different gospel quoted from Paul’s writings, you are hearing a false gospel, not what Paul actually preached. This is very serious.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


The disciples, Paul and Jesus all spoke the same truths and preached the same gospel.

Below is a partial list of examples I have found:

On the subject of love and the law:

Matthew wrote, quoting Christ:
Matthew 5:43 You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 46 For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? do not even the publicans the same?

Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Paul wrote:
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 10 Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

As you can plainly see, they were in total agreement. What else did they say about loving one another?

I’m breaking the Bible proofs into sections by popular demand. Skip the next few posts if you would not care to read ALLLLLL that scripture.

 

[Vic C.]

Re: Paul’s False Gospel

1) You need to change the title of the thread.

2) You have to cut down on the size of the posts please. That was WAY too long! :crazyeyes:

 

[destiny]

Re: Paul’s False Gospel

Yep, the title is misleading, unred, I thought someone was about to bash Paul again. ...Turns out I liked the post very much. I've noticed some people break their posts up into two parts (or more), in order to cut the length.

 

[unred typo]

Re: Paul’s True Gospel

vic C. on Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:32 pm wrote:
1) You need to change the title of the thread.
2) You have to cut down on the size of the posts please. That was WAY too long! :crazyeyes:

You’re right, vic, that was a long post. Sorry about that. If you’ll notice though, the OP is really only the first paragraph. All the rest is scriptural backup and since we don’t have the click-on Bible link back yet. I just wanted to make it easier for people to see the actual Bible verses. Unfortunately, not everyone will take the time to go look up the verses and read them in context.

Should I go back and break the verses into sections?

As for the title, the OP is meant to be focused on the fact that the teaching of ’workless grace’ is indeed a false gospel that has been attributed to Paul. I noticed that a thread loses direction easier if the title is not the topic to be discussed. I would like to discuss the problem of this false Pauline ‘gospel.’All that scripture just shows that Paul taught the same message that Christ did and leaving out the teaching of Christ makes it a false gospel that doesn't include what Jesus said we must do in order to be saved.

 

[unred typo]

Re: Paul’s False Gospel

destiny on Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:42 pm wrote:
Yep, the title is misleading, unred, I thought someone was about to bash Paul again. ...Turns out I liked the post very much. I've noticed some people break their posts up into two parts (or more), in order to cut the length.

Thanks, destiny.

I understand what you’re saying and I appreciate the suggestion but it’s the differences between this false Pauline gospel and the real Pauline gospel that I want to focus on. Maybe I should use, “Will the Real Paul please stand up?†What did you think?

I think I will break it into sections but it really is all scripture after the first paragraph and some of the topics I haven’t developed very much. I didn’t want to go into long debates on what verses mean, but that the are the true gospel being taught by both the disciples and Paul, just as Jesus wanted. He said they should make disciples and teach them to observe all things whatsoever he had commanded them. The death. burial and resurrection of Christ are not the whole gospel but make the following of Christ effectual for salvation.

 

[unred typo]

Re: Paul’s true Gospel

More Biblical proofs for the OP:

Matthew wrote:
Matthew 22:39 … You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Peter wrote:
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Paul wrote:
Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us, and has given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savor.

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love you need not that I write unto you: for you yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

Romans 12: 9-10 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. 10. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor; Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honor preferring one another;

On vengeance and forgiveness:

Matthew and Luke wrote, quoting Christ:
Matthew 5:43 You have heard that it hath been said, you shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Matthew 6: 14-15 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Luke 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smites you on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that takes away your cloak forbid not to take your coat also. 30 Give to every man that asks of you; and of him that takes away thy goods ask them not again.

Paul said:
Romans 12: 14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, said the Lord. 20 Therefore if your enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing you shall heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Eph 4:32 And be you kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you.

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongs unto me, I will recompense, says the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

On judging another:

Matthew and Luke wrote, quoting Christ:
Matthew 7:1-2 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven

Paul wrote:
Romans 2 :1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
Romans 14:10,13 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

On the judgment of God:

Matthew, quoting Christ, and Peter wrote:
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment
1 Peter 1:17And if you call on the Father, who without respect of persons judges according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:
Mat 16:17For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Paul wrote:
2 Corinthians 5
10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongs unto me, I will recompense, says the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasure up unto yourself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

On holiness and godly living:

The disciples wrote:
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.
Matthew 5:48 Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that you look for such things, be diligent that you may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
Matthew 10:38. And he that takes not his cross, and follows after me, is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mark 8:34. And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Paul wrote:
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness

1 Tim 4:8For bodily exercise profits little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw yourself. But godliness with contentment is great gain.
But you, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

2 Corinthians 6:1-3, 1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that you receive not the grace of God in vain. 2 (For he says, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succored thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) 3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
7 :1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Eph. 4:22 That you put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts…

 

[unred typo]

Re: Paul’s True Gospel

More Scripture backing for the OP:

On charity and giving to the poor:

Matthew, John and Luke wrote, quoting Christ:
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
5:42 Give to him that asks you, and from him that would borrow of you turn not you away.
Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If you will be perfect, go and sell that you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing you lack: go your way, sell whatsoever you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Luke 12 :33 Sell that you have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old

Acts of the Apostles 20:35 I have showed you all things, how that so laboring you ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and sees his brother have need, and shuts up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwells the love of God in him?

Paul wrote:
2 Corinthians 9:7. Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Eph. 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labor, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needs

Gal 2:10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

On teaching the commands of Jesus:

Matthew wrote, quoting Christ:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul wrote:
1 Thessalonians 4:2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God;

2 Timothy 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which you have heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Titus 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Savior;

Phil 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither labored in vain.

Romans 10:8 But what says it? The word is near you, even in thy mouth, and in your heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

On the power of the words and teaching of Jesus:

John and Luke wrote, quoting Christ:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? you have the words of eternal life.
Luke 6:47 Whosoever comes to me, and hears my sayings, and does them, I will show you to whom he is like: 48 He is like a man which built an house, and dug deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Luke 11:28 But he said, Yes rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Paul wrote:
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(continued)

 

[unred typo]

Re: Paul’s True Gospel

More scriptual proof of the OP:

On the light of the world:

In the gospels and writings of the disciples:
1 John 2:9 He that says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness even until now.10 He that loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no occasion of stumbling in him.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 8:12 Then spoke Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walks in darkness knows not which way he goes. 36 While you have light, believe in the light, that you may be the children of light.
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believes on me should not abide in darkness.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Paul wrote:
Ephesians 5:8 For you were sometimes darkness, but now are you light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Philippians 2:15 That you may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom you shine as lights in the world;

1 Thessalonians 5:5 You are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

2 Cor 4: 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

On the love of money:

The disciples wrote:
Luke 16: 13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
Luke 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for you have received your consolation.
Matthew 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Luke 12 :33 Sell that you have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that fails not, where no thief approaches, neither moth corrupts. 34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Mark 10:24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answered again, and said unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

James 5 :1. Go to now, you rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Come now, you rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. 2. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth eaten. 3. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. You have heaped treasure together for the last days.

Paul agrees:
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

On heaven and eternal life:

The disciples wrote:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Paul wrote:
Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;


On faith, obedience and works:

The disciples wrote:
Luke 17:9 Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. 10 So likewise you, when you shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Matthew 5:48 Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

John 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:24 He that loves me not keeps not my sayings: and the word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

James 1:22 But be you doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
5:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Paul wrote:
Phil 2:12Wherefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 6:9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak..
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him
Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be you transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
16: 25 Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which works by love.13 For, brethren, you have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself. 15 But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 6: 1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear you one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know you not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except you be reprobates? 6 But I trust that you shall know that we are not reprobates. 7 Now I pray to God that you do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that you should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. 11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Eph 2: 8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father


1 Tim 2:10 But (which becomes women professing godliness) with good works. 6:8That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate..

2 Tim 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Titus 3:8 [This is] a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

There are many more verses that could be sited, but I think by now you get the picture.... :

 

[Guest]

unred - would you be so kind to provide an example of the "they" that you speak of in the OP. You provided some generalities, however, do you have some preacher in mind that you are referring to? Would you be able to provide some actuall quotes?

Thanks....

 

[unred typo]

aLoneVoice on Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:54 pm
unred - would you be so kind to provide an example of the "they" that you speak of in the OP. You provided some generalities, however, do you have some preacher in mind that you are referring to? Would you be able to provide some actuall quotes?
Thanks.…

Actually, I would rather discuss the issue with those who believe as ‘they’ do, rather than make it against a particular person or church or ministry who can‘t defend their position on this forum. If you don’t believe that the gospel message is only the death, burial and resurrection of Christ without the message of Christ and his teaching as an integral part of the gospel, I guess it wouldn’t be you. Do you think Paul’s gospel was different than the gospel that Jesus taught? Have you ever compared them?

 

[unred typo]

Solo, I'm going to repost the portion of my post to your locked Catholics thread since it was so much off topic. I must have been asleep when I wrote it. It wasn't a bad post but it didn't really have anything to do with Catholics. We hate when that happens. : I tried to delete it at the same time VicC was locking it. But since it has little to do with Catholics and more to do with this topic, I thought you would like to answer it here.

Solo on Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:03 pm
<Jesus says> "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."John 5:24

This is the crux of the difference between Paul’s real gospel and the false one attributed to him. It’s in what you define as “My wordâ€Â. What does this “My word†say?

If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive. If we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. If we forgive others, God will forgive us. If we suffer with him, we shall also reign with him. If we keep his commandments, we know him and have assurance that we know him. These are ‘if’ statements. These promises are conditional. This is what Paul preached.

What was not conditional was the forgiveness offered to those who repent. The blood was freely given to pay for those sins. He freely gave his blood and you are not paying for your sins by your obedience, since obedience is not going to ‘right’ your wrongs. Only the blood (or your own eternal death) can permanently remove the offence of your sins. Praise God he has provided this perfect sacrifice. This is the good news!


Why do people on here seem to resent it? Sometimes I feel like I’m telling children there is no Santa Claus. I feel more like the bearer of the ‘bad news’ instead of the ‘good news.’ Why is that?

Well, think of the starving orphans in Uganda or some other poor country. If a rich philanthropist offered to give each of them two cups of uncooked brown rice every day for the rest of their lives, just for showing up at his door, they would rejoice and celebrate the good news. No more certain starvation! As long as could trust this man to keep his word, they would rejoice in this good news.

Now imagine that this same offer is made to American school children. Everyday for the rest of their lives they will be given just two cups of uncooked brown rice as their food for the day. Will they rejoice? Hardly. They will bemoan their fate as if you had just pronounced a death sentence.

We’ve been spoiled by the empty promises of the wicked one.

Colossians 2:4-8

4And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
5For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ.
6As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk you in him:
7Rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.