What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

    Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses

  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

    Read The Gospel Online.

Stations of the Cross

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Donate View
Septuagint

'seventy! LXX

deuterocanonical

There are many references in the Nt to the deuterocanonical books.
References in New Testament Order
Matthew
Matthew 4:4 Wisdom 16:26
Matthew 4:15 1 Maccabees 5:15
Matthew 5:18 Baruch 4:1
Matthew 5:28 Sirach 9:8
Matthew 5:2ss Sirach 25:7-12
Matthew 5:4 Sirach 48:24
Matthew 6:7 Sirach 7:14
Matthew 6:9 Sirach 23:1, 4
Matthew 6:10 1 Maccabees 3:60
Matthew 6:12 Sirach 28:2
Matthew 6:13 Sirach 33:1
Matthew 6:20 Sirach 29:10s
Matthew 6:23 Sirach 14:10
Matthew 6:33 Wisdom 7:11
Matthew 7:12 Tobit 4:15
Matthew 7:12 Sirach 31:15
Matthew 7:16 Sirach 27:6
Matthew 8:11 Baruch 4:37
Matthew 8:21 Tobit 4:3
Matthew 9:36 Judith 11:19
Matthew 9:38 1 Maccabees 12:17
Matthew 10:16 Sirach 13:17
Matthew 11:14 Sirach 48:10
Matthew 11:22 Judith 16:17
Matthew 11:25 Tobit 7:17
Matthew 11:25 Sirach 51:1
Matthew 11:28 Sirach 24:19
Matthew 11:28 Sirach 51:23
Matthew 11:29 Sirach 6:24s
Matthew 11:29 Sirach 6:28s
Matthew 11:29 Sirach 51:26s
Matthew 12:4 2 Maccabees 10:3
Matthew 12:5 Sirach 40:15
Matthew 13:44 Sirach 20:30s
Matthew 16:18 Wisdom 16:13
Matthew 16:22 1 Maccabees 2:21
Matthew 16:27 Sirach 35:22
Matthew 17:11 Sirach 48:10
Matthew 18:10 Tobit 12:15
Matthew 20:2 Tobit 5:15
Matthew 22:13 Wisdom 17:2
Matthew 23:38 Tobit 14:4
Matthew 24:15 1 Maccabees 1:54
Matthew 24:15 2 Maccabees 8:17
Matthew 24:16 1 Maccabees 2:28
Matthew 25:35 Tobit 4:17
Matthew 25:36 Sirach 7:32-35
Matthew 26:38 Sirach 37:2
Matthew 27:24 Daniel 13:46
Matthew 27:43 Wisdom 2:13
Matthew 27:43 Wisdom 2:18-20


Mark
Mark 1:15 Tobit 14:5
Mark 4:5 Sirach 40:15
Mark 4:11 Wisdom 2:22
Mark 5:34 Judith 8:35
Mark 6:49 Wisdom 17:15
Mark 8:37 Sirach 26:14
Mark 9:31 Sirach 2:18
Mark 9:48 Judith 16:17
Mark 10:18 Sirach 4:1
Mark 14:34 Sirach 37:2
Mark 15:29 Wisdom 2:17s


Luke
Luke 1:17 Sirach 48:10
Luke 1:19 Tobit 12:15
Luke 1:42 Judith 13:18
Luke 1:52 Sirach 10:14
Luke 2:29 Tobit 11:9
Luke 2:37 Judith 8:6
Luke 6:35 Wisdom 15:1
Luke 7:22 Sirach 48:5
Luke 9:8 Sirach 48:10
Luke 10:17 Tobit 7:17
Luke 10:19 Sirach 11:19
Luke 10:21 Sirach 51:1
Luke 12:19 Tobit 7:10
Luke 12:20 Wisdom 15:8
Luke 13:25 Tobit 14:4
Luke 13:27 1 Maccabees 3:6
Luke 13:29 Baruch 4:37
Luke 14:13 Tobit 2:2
Luke 15:12 1 Maccabees 10:29 [30]
Luke 15:12 Tobit 3:17
Luke 18:7 Sirach 35:22
Luke 19:44 Wisdom 3:7
Luke 21:24 Tobit 14:5
Luke 21:24 Sirach 28:18
Luke 21:25 Wisdom 5:22
Luke 24:4 2 Maccabees 3:26
Luke 24:31 2 Maccabees 3:34
Luke 24:50 Sirach 50:20s
Luke 24:53 Sirach 50:22


John
John 1:3 Wisdom 9:1
John 3:8 Sirach 16:21
John 3:12 Wisdom 9:16
John 3:12 Wisdom 18:15s
John 3:13 Baruch 3:29
John 3:28 1 Maccabees 9:39
John 3:32 Tobit 4:6
John 4:9 Sirach 50:25s
John 4:48 Wisdom 8:8
John 5:18 Wisdom 2:16
John 6:35 Sirach 24:21
John 7:38 Sirach 24:40, 43[30s]
John 8:44 Wisdom 2:24
John 8:53 Sirach 44:19
John 10:20 Wisdom 5:4
John 10:22 1 Maccabees 4:59
John 14:15 Wisdom 6:18
John 15:9s Wisdom 3:9
John 17:3 Wisdom 15:3
John 20:22 Wisdom 15:11
 
Acts
Acts 1:10 2 Maccabees 3:26
Acts 1:18 Wisdom 4:19
Acts 2:4 Sirach 48:12
Acts 2:11 Sirach 36:7
Acts 2:39 Sirach 24:32
Acts 4:24 Judith 9:12
Acts 5:2 2 Maccabees 4:32
Acts 5:12 1 Maccabees 12:6
Acts 5:21 2 Maccabees 1:10
Acts 5:39 2 Maccabees 7:19
Acts 9:1-29 2 Maccabees 3:24-40
Acts 9:2 1 Maccabees 15:21
Acts 9:7 Wisdom 18:1
Acts 10:2 Tobit 12:8
Acts 10:22 1 Maccabees 10:25
Acts 10:22 1 Maccabees 11:30, 33 etc.
Acts 10:26 Wisdom 7:1
Acts 10:30 2 Maccabees 11:8
Acts 10:34 Sirach 35:12s
Acts 10:36 Wisdom 6:7
Acts 10:36 Wisdom 8:3 etc.
Acts 11:18 Wisdom 12:19
Acts 12:5 Judith 4:9
Acts 12:10 Sirach 19:26
Acts 12:23 Judith 16:17
Acts 12:23 Sirach 48:21
Acts 12:23 1 Maccabees 7:41
Acts 12:23 2 Maccabees 9:9
Acts 13:10 Sirach 1:30
Acts 13:17 Wisdom 19:10
Acts 14:14 Judith 14:16s
Acts 14:15 Wisdom 7:3
Acts 15:4 Judith 8:26
Acts 16:14 2 Maccabees 1:4
Acts 17:23 Wisdom 14:20
Acts 17:23 Wisdom 15:17
Acts 17:24, 25 Wisdom 9:1
Acts 17:24 Tobit 7:17
Acts 17:24 Wisdom 9:9
Acts 17:26 Wisdom 7:18
Acts 17:27 Wisdom 13:6
Acts 17:29 Wisdom 13:10
Acts 17:30 Sirach 28:7
Acts 19:27 Wisdom 3:17
Acts 19:28 Daniel 14:18, 41
Acts 20:26 Daniel 13:46
Acts 20:32 Wisdom 5:5
Acts 20:35 Sirach 4:31
Acts 21:26 1 Maccabees 3:49
Acts 22.9 Wisdom 18.1
Acts 24:2 2 Maccabees 4:6
Acts 26:18 Wisdom 5:5
Acts 26:25 Judith 10:13
 
If you use the Bible gateway search choose the douay-rheumatoid version to find them
 
Kv 44

How do you know what is and what is not scripture?
Click to expand...
Already answered.
KV-44-v1 said:
Two indicators: if it clearly seems to unify with the previous Biblical Books. all the Books seem to be inspired by ONE God.
One indicator: And if it confirms Christianity as gotten from the Bible, and if observed evidence proves it right again and again, nonstop.
Only the 66 Books align with this criteria, any other stuff is from man.
There's no new revelation. God started with Genesis and finished His Word after Revelation.
Click to expand...

The New Testament quotes extensively from these 7 books I have a list of you are interested.
Click to expand...
Show it.

The canon book of scripture was decided by the apostolic authority Christ gave to his church, with the guarantee of the spirit of truth!
Click to expand...
Did you know that the Church is any body of believers? Not just your own?
 
donadams said:
Both scripture and the apostles have the same authority!

Both are God breathed!

Both Inspired!

Both come from the same source and are of divine origin & authority!


God is the source of truth and the author of the life of grace. Jn 1:16-17 Jn 14:6

Then why don’t you believe the Apostles; His Apostolic Church?

God is the ultimate authority, Christ is the authority of God, sent By God and therefore the Apostles; His Apostolic Church are the authority of Christ and sent by Christ!

The Apostles; His Apostolic Church is the extension of God & Christ with His authority to every place and time!

Under the explicit authority and command of Jesus Christ to teach & sanctity all men unto eternal salvation, with our obedience to them being implied! Matt 28:19 Lk 10:15 Jn 20:21-23

All under the guarantee & inspiration of the Holy Ghost! Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

Where does Christ or scripture ever say: “this applies to what they have written ALONE”?

The apostles taught us in person, preaching teaching as the witnesses of Christ (acts 1:8 & 16:17) and the “Mouthpiece of God”!

Thirty plus years before the first letter of the Gospel or New Testament was written, Christ handed down (tradition) or transmitted the fullness of truth to the Apostles; His Apostolic Church, and they exercised authority, teaching, and sanctifying. (administration of baptism, and the sacraments)

Then decades later some of the Apostles wrote some of these truths under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost!

The fullness of divine revelation was complete with the ascension of Christ, and there is no new public revelation, but the apostolic authority continues in the threefold mission that of His Apostolic Church, teach, govern, and to sanctify!

Sacred Scripture & Tradition are God breathed and inspired!

All Christians are bound (Matt 16:18-19 & 18:17-18) to believe and obey! (Rom 16:26)

If God is the ultimate authority and Christ is sent by God and exercise His authority then Christ is also the ultimate or equal authority!

If the apostles are sent by Christ and exercise His authority, and act in His name then the Apostles or His Apostolic Church are also the ultimate or equal authority!

Sacred Scripture & Tradition have equal authority and are the ultimate authority!

Verified by scripture:

2 thes 2:15
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:17
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:19-20
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 1:1-2
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 16:17


The holy gesture (sign of the cross) in its roots was a prayer in apostolic times.

Fourth-century Father of the Church St. Basil (329–379) said that the Apostles “taught us to mark with the sign of the cross those who put their hope in the Lord”—that is, those who presented themselves for Baptism.

Notice the level of authority He assigned to this statement: “the Apostles taught us”!

He could not say that if He believed that Sacred scripture was the “only authority”!
Click to expand...
You miss. What the 12 Biblical Apostles of Jesus taught is right in the Bible. The Bible records their teachings. Apostolic teaching is literally a part of sola Scriptura BECAUSE their teachings are in the Bible! What a surprise.

But they are now physically dead today, so they aren't giving any teaching.


Or,
are you talking about something ELSE?
 
donadams said:
Both scripture and the apostles have the same authority!

Both are God breathed!

Both Inspired!

Both come from the same source and are of divine origin & authority!


God is the source of truth and the author of the life of grace. Jn 1:16-17 Jn 14:6

Then why don’t you believe the Apostles; His Apostolic Church?

God is the ultimate authority, Christ is the authority of God, sent By God and therefore the Apostles; His Apostolic Church are the authority of Christ and sent by Christ!

The Apostles; His Apostolic Church is the extension of God & Christ with His authority to every place and time!

Under the explicit authority and command of Jesus Christ to teach & sanctity all men unto eternal salvation, with our obedience to them being implied! Matt 28:19 Lk 10:15 Jn 20:21-23

All under the guarantee & inspiration of the Holy Ghost! Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

Where does Christ or scripture ever say: “this applies to what they have written ALONE”?

The apostles taught us in person, preaching teaching as the witnesses of Christ (acts 1:8 & 16:17) and the “Mouthpiece of God”!

Thirty plus years before the first letter of the Gospel or New Testament was written, Christ handed down (tradition) or transmitted the fullness of truth to the Apostles; His Apostolic Church, and they exercised authority, teaching, and sanctifying. (administration of baptism, and the sacraments)

Then decades later some of the Apostles wrote some of these truths under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost!

The fullness of divine revelation was complete with the ascension of Christ, and there is no new public revelation, but the apostolic authority continues in the threefold mission that of His Apostolic Church, teach, govern, and to sanctify!

Sacred Scripture & Tradition are God breathed and inspired!

All Christians are bound (Matt 16:18-19 & 18:17-18) to believe and obey! (Rom 16:26)

If God is the ultimate authority and Christ is sent by God and exercise His authority then Christ is also the ultimate or equal authority!

If the apostles are sent by Christ and exercise His authority, and act in His name then the Apostles or His Apostolic Church are also the ultimate or equal authority!

Sacred Scripture & Tradition have equal authority and are the ultimate authority!

Verified by scripture:

2 thes 2:15
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:17
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:19-20
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 1:1-2
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 16:17


The holy gesture (sign of the cross) in its roots was a prayer in apostolic times.

Fourth-century Father of the Church St. Basil (329–379) said that the Apostles “taught us to mark with the sign of the cross those who put their hope in the Lord”—that is, those who presented themselves for Baptism.

Notice the level of authority He assigned to this statement: “the Apostles taught us”!

He could not say that if He believed that Sacred scripture was the “only authority”!
Click to expand...
I wonder, do you actually believe that the apocripha was written by ANY Apostles??
 
donadams said:
There are many references in the Nt to the deuterocanonical books.
Click to expand...
No. Not references. Things that happen to be similar.
Fakeabees : 15 they said that against them had gathered together men of Ptolema′is and Tyre and Sidon, and all Galilee of the Gentiles,“to annihilate us.”

Matthew:
14 This happened so that what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet would be fulfilled:

15 “The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali,
By the way of the sea, on the other side of the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles—

Tolmais and tyre or zebulun and napthtali??
By whatever logic you used to call them "references", I'll turn it around and say "CONTRADICTIONS!!!"

Matthew 4:4 mentions bread. But Wisdom mentions fruits.




donadams said:
Acts 12:23 Judith 16:17
Click to expand...
How is this any "reference"?? Do you know what a reference is?? One is about Herod being killed and the other: "17 Let all thy creatures serve thee: because thou hast spoken, and they were made: thou didst send forth thy spirit, and they were created, and there is no one that can resist thy voice."


Just because there are similarities does not mean "references". And your case is not helped. In fact - HINDERED.

"But if the Apocrypha is a Scripture, then it should not have any errors. But since it does have errors, as will be demonstrated below, this puts into question whether or not the Roman Catholic Church has properly used its self-proclaimed position as the teaching authority of the Christian Church. If it can error in such an important manner as what is Scripture, can it be trusted to properly teach the Christian Church? The following references can be verified at http://www.newadvent.org/bible.

Problems in the Apocrypha​

When we look into the Apocrypha itself, we find numerous problems. For example, we see it advocating magic where the smoke of a fish heart on a fire drives away devils.

Condones the use of magic​

Tobit 6:5-7, “Then the angel said to him: Take out the entrails of this fish, and lay up his heart, and his gall, and his liver for thee: for these are necessary for useful medicines. 6 And when he had done so, he roasted the flesh thereof, and they took it with them in the way: the rest they salted as much as might serve them, till they came to Rages the city of the Medes. 7 Then Tobias asked the angel, and said to him: I beseech thee, brother Azarias, tell me what remedies are these things good for, which thou hast bid me keep of the fish? 8 And the angel, answering, said to him: If thou put a little piece of its heart upon coals, the smoke thereof driveth away all kind of devils, either from man or from woman, so that they come no more to them.”

Is it true that the smoke from a fish’s heart, when burned, drives away evil spirits? Of course not. Such a superstitious teaching has no place in the word of God."

-------
There is absolutely no evidence that any apocryphal book is inspired.

If they were, they would be in largely known Bibles like NASB and its variants, NIV, KJV and its variants, paraphrase Bibles like NLT, and more.

God has kept His Word free from the unverified Apocryfake.
 
More evidence that Apocryfake is fake:


"Teaches that forgiveness of sins is by human effort.​

Salvation by works:

  • Tobit 4:11, “For alms deliver from all sin, and from death, and will not suffer the soul to go into darkness.”
  • Tobit 12:9, “For alms delivereth from death, and the same is that which purgeth away sins, and maketh to find mercy and life everlasting.”
We know from Scripture that alms (money or food given to the poor or needy as charity) does not purge our sins. The blood of Christ is what cleanses us – not money or food given to poor people. “But if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin,” (1 John 1:7).

Money as an offering for the sins of the dead:

2 Maccabbees 12:43, “And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection.”

Can anyone truly accept that money isn’t offering for the sins of dead people? Such a superstitious and unbiblical concept has no place in Scripture.

Historical Errors​

Wrong historical facts:

  • Judith 1:5, “Now in the twelfth year of his reign, Nabuchodonosor, king of the Assyrians, who reigned in Ninive the great city, fought against Arphaxad and overcame him.”
  • Baruch 6:2, “And when you are come into Babylon, you shall be there many years, and for a long time, even to seven generations: and after that I will bring you away from thence with peace.”
The book of Judith incorrectly says that Nebuchadnezzar was the king of the Assyrians when he was the king of the Babylonians.1

Baruch 6:2 says the Jews would serve in Babylon for seven generations where Jer. 25:11 says it was for 70 years. “And this whole land shall be a desolation and a horror, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”

Conclusion​

Obviously, the Apocrypha has serious problems. From magic to salvation by works, to money as an offering for the sins of the dead, and blatant incorrect historical facts – it is full of false and unbiblical teachings. It isn’t inspired by God. Likewise, neither is the Roman Catholic Church, which has stated the Apocrypha is inspired. This shows the Roman Catholic Church is not the means by which God is communicating his truth to his people, that the Magisterium has erred greatly, and that it is infested with man’s false tradition rather than God’s absolute truth."
 
KV-44-v1 said:
You miss. What the 12 Biblical Apostles of Jesus taught is right in the Bible. The Bible records their teachings. Apostolic teaching is literally a part of sola Scriptura BECAUSE their teachings are in the Bible! What a surprise.

But they are now physically dead today, so they aren't giving any teaching.


Or,
are you talking about something ELSE?
Click to expand...
the apostles continue till Christ returns Matt 28:19-20 & acts 1:8

Scripture and the apostles are the same effect, no difference

1 John 1:4
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

The apostolic church was established before the New Testament!
The apostolic church taught and exercised authority before the New Testament!
The church was taught by Christ in person for three years!
The apostolic church does not require sacred scripture to know the truth or to teach the “word of God”!
Acts 8:25
The apostolic church wrote the New Testament and decided the canon of scripture!

Acts 8:4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

How if the NT scripture was not even written for decades, 30 plus years, and not an approved authorized canon until 381?
 
KV-44-v1 said:
I wonder, do you actually believe that the apocripha was written by ANY Apostles??
Click to expand...
No that’s Old Testament
The New Testament was written by holy mother church as inspired by the Hs
 
donadams said:
Does the Christian church require sacred scripture to know the truth?
Click to expand...
Yes.
donadams said:
""The apostolic church does not require sacred scripture to know the truth""
Acts 8:25
Click to expand...
That verse is referring to specific people. DESCriptive - not perscriptive.

How Shall They Hear Without A Preaacher?
donadams said:
holy mother church
Click to expand...
There is no "holy mother" church.
The NT was written by individual GOD FOLLOWERS.
donadams said:
What about the faith story of Susana in Dan 13?
Click to expand...
I don't see Daniel 13. Or her faith story. Can you cite?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Donate View
Back
Top