Are Christians permitted to believe God will provide a Postmortem Opportunity to the Unevangelized?

[Alfred Persson]

Regarding Postmortem Opportunity, I make two claims. The first is that Christians are permitted to believe that God will provide a Postmortem Opportunity to the unevangelized. The language of permission, here, has two senses: (1) epistemological—there is nothing epistemically substandard or irrational about embracing the theory of Postmortem Opportunity—and (2) theological—there is nothing heretical or contrary to the clear teaching of Scripture about Postmortem Opportunity. My second claim is that, for synergists at least, the theory of Postmortem Opportunity is better than other answers to the question of the destiny of the unevangelized.-



James Beilby (PhD, Marquette University) is professor of systematic and philosophical theology at Bethel University in St. Paul, Minnesota. He is the author of Thinking About Christian Apologetics and Epistemology as Theology, the editor of Naturalism Defeated?, and the coeditor of numerous volumes, including The Nature of the Atonement, Divine Foreknowledge, The Historical Jesus, and Justification. His written work has appeared in publications such as Faith and Philosophy, Philosophia Christi, Religious Studies, and Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society.

Beilby, James. Postmortem Opportunity: A Biblical and Theological Assessment of Salvation After Death (p. I). InterVarsity Press. Kindle Edition.


If you answer "yes", join me on this thread to discuss the issue:

Post Mortem Opportunity for Salvation

By calling Abraham "Father" the rich man proves he is not irredeemably wicked. The Rich Man is clearly sorrowful. He has Christian like concern for his family, that they not end up like he. Moreover, the redeemed in heaven want to comfort the Rich Man (Lk. 16:26), but that would be out of place...

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[Who Me]

Except Paul says no as in 2cor
6 As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 For he says,

‘In the time of my favour I heard you,
and in the day of salvation I helped you.’

I tell you, now is the time of God’s favour, now is the day of salvation.

And in hebrews 9,. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

There is no 2nd chance.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Except Paul says no as in 2cor
6 As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 For he says,

‘In the time of my favour I heard you,
and in the day of salvation I helped you.’

I tell you, now is the time of God’s favour, now is the day of salvation.

And in hebrews 9,. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

There is no 2nd chance.

"Now" was in the first century. Aren't you a bit late?

You interpret "now" as when people are alive. Why couldn't "now" be when people die, never having had a chance, born in a country where Islam only was the religion? Couldn't "now" be after you die, as it is appointed for everyone, and after this God Judges after you learn the gospel, repent and then eagerly wait for Christ's second appearing, apart from sin, for salvation?

 

[Who Me]

"Now" was in the first century. Aren't you a bit late?

You interpret "now" as when people are alive. Why couldn't "now" be when people die, never having had a chance, born in a country where Islam only was the religion? Couldn't "now" be after you die, as it is appointed for everyone, and after this God Judges after you learn the gospel, repent and then eagerly wait for Christ's second appearing, apart from sin, for salvation?

Paul was addressing people who were alive. The bible still speaks to people who are alive, so in that way now is always now while you the reader are alive.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Paul was addressing people who were alive. The bible still speaks to people who are alive, so in that way now is always now while you the reader are alive.

My point exactly. Paul was addressing the Corinthians alive about 50 AD. "Now" was a long time ago, neither Paul or the Corinthians he wrote to, are alive anymore.

Just like the dead, you weren't alive when Paul wrote. So why should you get a second chance, but the dead denied one?

You say it doesn't apply to anyone not alive. When Paul wrote, that included you.

Paul didn't write to you, your name isn't in the letter.

So why should God give you a second chance, you missed it. Almost 2,000 years too late.

You should have been alive then, but you weren't.

What makes you deserving of a second chance?

 

[Who Me]

What makes you deserving of a second chance?

Paul wrote to those alive then and to those a.ive when they read the bible.
No one gets a second chance, but everyone gets a chance durring their life.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Paul wrote to those alive then and to those a.ive when they read the bible.
No one gets a second chance, but everyone gets a chance during their life.

Paul wrote to those alive THEN, not you or me.

God is giving us a second chance, because we weren't alive then.

So why wouldn't God give the dead get a second chance also? Many of them weren't alive then either.

Many died before Paul wrote. Or during the first few centuries before Christianity was known in their country.

Why should God give us a second chance, and not them?

It is written:
For there is no partiality with God. (Rom. 2:11 NKJ)

But if God gives us a second chance, and not those who died before Christ, or before Christianity was known to them, then He is partial and the Bible would be wrong. THEREFORE, as God is not partial He would give the dead a second chance also.

Isn't that logical?

 

[Ezekiel]

The early church believes this and so does Jesus.

Revelations 3
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The early church

John 9
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

Others are sent

1 John 4
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Paul speaks of it

1 Corinthians 6
6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

The Angels shall lead them to the womb that judgement on them. We should pray for our fathers, mothers, brothers all them before and after us.

 

[Ezekiel]

But Jesus died for all these and became alive again so that if you believe on Him and the Father. That if you are blind now open your eyes and see, if you are cripple stand up and walk, if you are dead in your sins awake and be alive , this is the love of your creator that He took all and you shall be healed in Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Who Me]

Paul wrote to those alive THEN, not you or me

By that reasoning nothing Paul wrote applies to us today.
As that is not true, then your reasoning is faulty.

 

[Alfred Persson]

By that reasoning nothing Paul wrote applies to us today.
As that is not true, then your reasoning is faulty.

No, I pointed out your inconsistent logic. You said the Bible is written to all alive. But, you were NOT alive when it was written, contradicting your premise. Many of the dead were not alive when the gospel was preached, they died before Christ was born. So why do you get a "second chance" and not them?

 

[follower]

Paul wrote to those alive then and to those a.ive when they read the bible.
No one gets a second chance, but everyone gets a chance durring their life.

There has long been opposition to the one true faith, the true gospel, by many false gospels including as if there is salvation for everyone no matter what they do in this life.
Since the Savior Himself shows that those who reject Him do not have life,
and since the other fables associated with "second chance" in the next life are
part and parcel with and of false gospel,
it is actually not even proper for followers of Jesus to receive, fellowship, nor share a meal with anyone bringing such/any false gospel.

 

[Alfred Persson]

There has long been opposition to the one true faith, the true gospel, by many false gospels including as if there is salvation for everyone no matter what they do in this life.
Since the Savior Himself shows that those who reject Him do not have life,
and since the other fables associated with "second chance" in the next life are
part and parcel with and of false gospel,
it is actually not even proper for followers of Jesus to receive, fellowship, nor share a meal with anyone bringing such/any false gospel.

Please do not bear false witness. Nothing I said "is salvation for everyone no matter what they do".

That is universalism, not even close to my position. Try reading it again before you opine.

Here is a sample of my posts on the "Annihilationism" thread:

Annihilationism, do the Wicked Perish?

We've been through this. These passages don't prove your point. I've shown that aionios doesn't mean eternal or forever. Not to mention that Revelation is a book of symbolism. Any passage you post from Revelation would need to be established as literal and figurative. Then the passage you quote...

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The wicked (who would rejoice if there were no punishment for their evil works, if death resulted in non-existence or annihilation) should FEAR God, because His wrath can be poured out on both body AND soul.

Gehenna is another name for the lake of fire: "This is the second death"

NKJ Rev. 2:11 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."'
NKJ Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
NKJ Rev. 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
NKJ Rev. 21:8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part (3313 μέρος meros) in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

The wicked "shall have their part" (3313 μέρος meros) in the lake, their "destiny" determined by God, according to their deeds:

3313 μέρος meros
Meaning: 1) a part 1a) a part due or assigned to one 1b) lot, destiny.-Strong's Concordance

Origin: from an obsolete but more primary form of meiromai (to get as a section or allotment); TDNT - 4:594,585; n n


13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:13-15 NKJ)

That is, if their names aren't in the Book of life. If it is, these being "judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books" (among which is the Book of life), are forgiven their misdeeds and enter life.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. (Rev. 20:11-12 NKJ)

All the rest are cast into the Lake of Fire, the "second death."

The destruction body and soul undergo could be annihilation. The range of ἀπόλλυμι includes destruction that ruins so it no longer is fit for its original purpose, as new wine does to old wineskins:

622 ἀπόλλυμι apollumi
Meaning: 1) to destroy 1a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin 1b) render useless 1c) to kill 1d) to declare that one must be put to death 1e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell 1f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed 2) to destroy 2a) to lose.-Strong's Concordance

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy (622 ἀπόλλυμι apollumi) both soul and body in hell. (Matt. 10:28 NKJ)

"And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined (622 ἀπόλλυμι apollumi). (Lk. 5:37 NKJ)

Corroborating this range of meaning, Death and Hades (which are places, not personifications as both are listed with "the sea") are cast into the Lake of fire never to return, they are destroyed. But Satan, False Prophet and Beast are tormented eternally in the same Lake of fire:

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Rev. 20:14 NKJ)

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Rev. 20:10 NKJ)

Last edited: Yesterday at 8:25 PM