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Gendou Ikari
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I have a question. The King James Version of today, is it the Authorized Version or the Revised Version?
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Authorized VersionGendou Ikari said:I have a question. The King James Version of today, is it the Authorized Version or the Revised Version?
No, the revised edition is not corrupt. In fact, if one of the two is corrupt it is the AV, because the RV is based on much earlier manuscripts, and so are closer to the originals. The AV has many more manuscripts, but they are much later and are just copies of the same errors and editions over and over again.Gendou Ikari said:So the revised edition is corrupt?
Just one more question, okay? The Authorized Version of today is not the same one printed in 1611 is it? Because I heard that the 1611 one had like two thousand errors in it. It even said, "thou shalt commit adultery."
Gendou Ikari said:1. So the revised edition is corrupt?
2. The Authorized Version of today is not the same one printed in 1611 is it?
3. Because I heard that the 1611 one had like two thousand errors in it. It even said, "thou shalt commit adultery."
Bottom line is you are blaspheming against God's Word, you are falsely worshipping the error-filled KJV, and your lies are sickening. You will have to account to Christ for all the times you have attacked his word and driven people away from Christ by lying about a translation God's holy word and slandering it. I pray that nobody reading this falls for your hate-speech against God's Word.AVBunyan said:Bottom line - if you have anything other than a King James Bible you have a Roman Catholic bible - plain and simple. And I trust you do not like reading a bible that attacks the diety of Christ and the blood attonement for this is what all modern versions do. Because they uphold the truths in some places does not excuse their devilment in the places where they do attack these doctrines.
Gendou Ikari said:The Authorized Version is far from perfect. And just because another version says something that is different from the KJV does not make it wrong.
1. Ok, my apology - But you atarted out asking a question - I answered and I gave you a link to support what I believed to be so - You responded with three things you thought were wrong with the AV so... my reflector shields went up.Gendou Ikari said:1. I am searching for the truth and I am not, like you said, "Let's find something wrong with the King James because somebody told me something was wrong with it."
2. Hey, AVBunyan, I read from the King James Version (I don't own any other bible). I think that it is awesome, except for a few minor problems. But I believe that every Bible has problems.
3. P.S. I've got those Greek words from Strong's Concordance.
Wow, is this absolutely horrible advice. THe Bible WAS NOT written in English. The Bible WAS written in Hebrew and Greek. You should be careful with the English translations until you have exhausted the Greek and the Hebrew---don't get a KJV which has tons of additions to the original scripture and reflects the biases and misconceptions of the translators--get a interlinear Bible that translates the Greek or Hebrew word for word. Look to what God's word actually says, instead of worshipping some 17th century men who were as imperfect as you and I and have no authority on God's Word.AVBunyan said:3. Be careful with Greek and Hebrew until you have exhausted the English first - try a Webster's 1828 dictionary first - just a suggestion and you don't have to take it. Plus you do not know what Greek or Hebrew the concordances and lexicons are based on.
cubedbee said:1. Wow, is this absolutely horrible advice.
2. THe Bible WAS NOT written in English.
3. The Bible WAS written in Hebrew and Greek.
4. You should be careful with the English translations until you have exhausted the Greek and the Hebrew---
5. don't get a KJV which has tons of additions to the original scripture and reflects the biases and misconceptions of the translatorsâ€â€
6. get a interlinear Bible that translates the Greek or Hebrew word for word.
7. Look to what God's word actually says, instead of worshipping some 17th century men who were as imperfect as you and I and have no authority on God's Word.
The Bible, the Holy Word of God, is a text that is written in Greek and Hebrew. It is God who put us modern English people “at the mercy†of translators. Your advice is to trust just a single set of translators, who happened to live 400 years ago, and who are fallible men just like you and I. My advice is not to trust any translator, to realize that all have biases and that there is not such thing as a perfect translation, and to utilize a wide range of translations. Personally, I recommend a Parallel Bibleâ€â€one with 4 columns such as the KJV, NIV, NASB, and Amplified, is a good start and to supplement this with an interlinear Bible. Read passages in all 4 versions, noting where they agree and disagree. In cases of disagreement, go back to the original Greek and Hebrew in the interlinear, word for word translations that are accepted by all Biblical scholars, and try to determine which of the translations was closest to the original in meaning. My advice doesn’t trust any one set of fallible men to tell me what God’s Word readâ€â€and as such it is better advice than yours.1. So, your advice would be to take someone who doesn’t know Greek/Hebrew and have him be at the mercy of languages spoken by less than 2% of the world today? So, your advice would be to have him be put at the mercy of Greek/Hebrew scholars who disagree all over the place!?!?! Great advice cubed – talk about creating confusion. The common man (coal-miner, farmer, uneducated, native, Indian, steel worker, etc.) of the past had no problem with the KJV English – why do you? Were they “smarter†than you? Maybe not – but they believed what they read to be so without questioning it like your crowd does. God honors simple faith not your scholarship.
Honestly, this isn’t any sort of coherent point, so I will address your sentences one by one.2. Moses and Pharaoh spoke in Egyptian – Moses wrote it in Hebrew – did he miss anything? When you say the Bible to what are you referring to – the originals? Are you saying that all the great missionaries should have taken only the Greek and Hebrew to the cannibals and heathen? The KJV worked fine enough. You mean you can trust God for your salvation but you can’t trust God to get his word to you in English? Small view of God you have cubed.
No, I’m no more Greek or Hebrew than I am a 17th century Englishman. I am an American, and American English is my language, and so according to your “logic†I should be using the translations in my language, which I do. The English of the KJV is certainly closer to our language that Greek and Hebrew, but it is not the language we speak today, and despite your claims to the contrary, a high-school educated American will need reference materials to understand what the KJV says, same as I need to understand what the Greek and Hebrew says.3. See point #2 above. You are not a Greek or Hebrew are you? Can you or your buddies speak affluent Greek or Hebrew? I bet you folks haven’t even mastered simple English yet! I mean the average word in a KJV is 5 letters or less! What’s the problem here?[
I use both sets of manuscripts, as do all modern translations. The ones from Asia are more numerous, but they are later and repeat the same additions and errors over and over. The ones from Egypt are older, and thus closer to the original. Personally, I use Strong’s lexicon, but I have never seen any evidence that lexicon’s vary enough to cause any sort of meaningful difference in the translation of the Word.4. Which Greek or Hebrew cubed? I mean there are only at least 50 Greek and Hebrew lexicons based upon multiple sets of conflicting manuscripts? Which ones cubed - the ones from Egypt or Asia Minor?
I am saying God is working his will today just as he was in 1611, that in 1611 the KJV was by far the best translation of the Bible, but that yes, scholars today are smarter and vastly more knowledgeable, and that yes, God has given us at least 150 versions, not of which conflict in the slightest doctrinal issue, and all of which effectively convey God’s word to modern people. Do you not have faith in God that he can still work today? Why do you think God stopped working 400 years ago?5. Do you have a copy of the “originals†cube to show us these “additions� Reflects the bias of the translators huh? Really? You mean the baby sprinkling, a-millennial, Anglicans who put together a pre-millennial Bible that didn’t even reflect their own doctrinal views? So, you are saying God was not working all things after the council of his own will in 1611 but he is today with the latest 150 conflicting versions? Are you saying your crowd is smarter than those 1611 translators were?
God is my final authority. I do believe that the early church, considering that they had codified the Bible with 60 years of Christ’s death, did have a single book of the OT and NT called the Bible, written in Hebrew and Greek. We don’t have that book anymore, and so we have to read imperfect translations of scraps of copies of copies of copies of copies of the originals, and so no, there is no perfect English text that is God’s Word. I use my brain and draw on the resources of scholarly Christians to come as close to the original Word as I can, and all, mature Christians interested in the Truth should do likewise.6. Which Greek and Hebrew is your final authority for this cubed – again there are only 50 lexicons out there to pick and choose from. What is your authority for this cubed? Do you have the “original†bible to compare it to? Are you saying the originals (OT and NT) at one time were together in one book called the bible? Where is this “bible†you speak of cubed?
No, no translation of the Bible is perfect and without error. God is my final authority, and he should be yours as well. There are no authorities on God’s word except God. It is foolish to believe otherwise. The versions today do a better job at translating God’s Word than the KJV. But there will never be a single perfect authoritative English language Bible.7. How do you know what “God’s word actually says†cubed? Do you have the originals? Do you believe any modern version is perfect and without error today? What is your final authority cubed? Yes, these 17th century men were sinners just like David, who was a murderer, and wrote Psalms and Moses, who was a murderer, and wrote the first 5 books of the bible. So, cubed do you worship the modern translators? So, if those men were not authorities on God’s word then who is cubed, you and your crowd??? Are you saying your crowd can do a better job and get more results? Well, you’d think after 150 versions since 1881 they would have gotten it right by now!?!?!?
Actually, your arguments are the ones that have been around for well over 100 years, not changing, not acknowledging facts, twisting history and slandering modern translators, and not oce demonstrating a single doctrine that modern versions do not teach but the KJV does. Keep pretending that you somehow know the fate of billions of people’s immortal souls, and that it’s the KJV that’s “winning them.†I’ll acknowledge that it’s God alone who knows the fates of souls, and that as long as the Gospel is presented, which the modern versions do a superb job of, it is the living Holy Spirit, and not some dead book, which wins souls.No – cubed – you need to re-think through your arguments – they are old and wore out.
I’ll stick with the book God used and blessed to win more souls than all your modern versions put together.
Have a nice day now!
God bless
Now Gendou - I provided you a link toa page that was full of links that covers everything you have asked and have issues with. If you were to review that link and do some research you will find answers - they are there - the links I provided have the information. If you will not review the links so as to get some background then there is nothing more I can do here - those folks in those links have done considerable research and have lots of documentation.Gendou Ikari said:Great post cubedbee! :-D
The King James Version cannot be the inspired word of God. It's gone through thousands of changes since it's release in 1611. How is that inspired? It had apocryphal books does that mean that they are inspired?
Note: Erasmus was a big fan of 'Origin.'
Thanks Gendou - this is all I ask - not for me but for you. If you do check it out with an open mind it would be a mark of your CHristian character even if you do not see what I am saying. The fact the you would check it out is more than most do when presented with the research.Gendou Ikari said:1. Alright, AV Bunyan I'll review the evidence but it is going to take a while.
2. I highly doubt that I will accept this view though. Both Eternal Hell and Universal Salvation are taught in the King James Version, this is something I cannot accept.
2. The AV1611 does not teache Universal salvation but does teach an eternal hell. I stick with the book - never failed me or anybody else yet and despite all the attacks still stands solid as a rock wth no proven errors.