Have Tongues Ceased?

[eddif]

The prophets of the Old Testament had the message, but their minds did not understand the message they spoke. God sent them with the message in spite of their lack of understanding.

I cannot agree

1 Peter1:9 kjv
9. Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10. Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should comeunto you:
11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

I person speaking in tongues in church has a message he may not understand.

Your Sons And Daughters shall prophecy.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

The gospel is presented in easy to understand native languages.
If God grants a person the gift of tongues so they can speak somebody else's native language, (like in Acts 2), I can only hope that the speaker would know what he was saying.
In Acts 2, it seems the apostles and disciples got some feedback from the audience so they knew what was going on

1 Corinthians 1:18 kjv
18. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The Gospel/ good news is the cross.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

1 Corinthians 14:23 kjv
23. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that areunlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24. But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25. And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

In church there can be 2? Types open for a prophetic message:
1. Unbeliever
2, Unlearned
3?

A prophetic message comes how?
In tongues if the receiving person is foreign.
If the person speaks the language of the congregation, then in that language.

A prophecy can be given in group language.

Tongues plus interpretation equals prophecy.

It is the understood prophecy that is important. How it is sometimes delivered differently.

I need to take a break.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[journeyman]

You did provide this caveat..."Please, understand that the speaker himself understands what he's saying."

Right. Edified by understanding,
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 1Cor.14:4 NKJV

While I won't disagree, tongues said in private are just the Sprit talking to God.

No. Speaking in a tongue in private would be someone speaking a foreignearthly language in private.

True.
I, personally, have never spoken in tongues to anyone.
Just in prayer to God.

I won't deviate from what scripture actually says about various language, including the "tower" of Babel. That's Babylon no matter how you slice it.

 

[eddif]

1 Corinthians 14:14 kjv
14. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[journeyman]

I do not want you to be unaware brothers and sisters that I often intended to come to you (and was prevented until now), so that I may have some fruit even among you, just as I already have among the rest of the Gentiles. Rom.1:13 NET

Pauls' understanding would be fruitless if his listeners didn't understand him,

the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace. Col.1:16 NET

 

[eddif]

I was never given an opportunity to become a cessationist and here is why .
I received the Gift of Tongues at salvation, before I left the spot at the front of the church where I received my salvation . I stood there at the altar and words were wanting to come out of my mouth that were NOT my words . I was shocked and thought what is happening to me and I did not let The Holy Spirit have the utterance .

There is another way to look at this.

What God wants is for us to prophecy.
Tradition probably says first tongues, then interpretation, finally prophecy.
Why not English prophecy first for someone. If you had spoken prophecy first, that would still have been the Holy Spirit speaking.

Just a thought.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Hopeful 2]

1 Peter1:9 kjv
9. Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10. Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should comeunto you:
11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

I person speaking in tongues in church has a message he may not understand.

Your Sons And Daughters shall prophecy.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

You changed the subject from speaking in tongues to the OT's prophets foretelling of Jesus and the NT.

 

[Hopeful 2]

1 Corinthians 1:18 kjv
18. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The Gospel/ good news is the cross.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Get back o topic, please.

 

[eddif]

You changed the subject from speaking in tongues to the OT's prophets foretelling of Jesus and the NT.

You think so, but not me. The prophets did not understand totally what they were speaking by the power of the Holy Spirit in them ( they looked in scripture for what they spoke).
Generally the prophets manifested the spiritual gifts:
With of knowledge
Word of wisdom
Healing
Discerning spirits
Raised the dead
etc,
Daniel spoke the tongues on the wall, their meaning (intreptetation too).

God hid information in creation (a lot like tongues).
Jesus interpreted:
The seed is the Word of God
The ground is men’s hearts

There are many parallels we tend to miss.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Hopeful 2]

Right. Edified by understanding,
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 1Cor.14:4 NKJV

OK.
But if it is done in a church setting, or even in public, and there is an interpreter of tongues present, all will be edified.

No. Speaking in a tongue in private would be someone speaking a foreign earthly language in private.

Though not impossible, (as God can do anything), I can't see the Spirit of God speaking to God in French or Chinese.
Why then would it be referred to as the tongues of angels ?

I won't deviate from what scripture actually says about various language, including the "tower" of Babel. That's Babylon no matter how you slice it.

OK.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You think so, but not me. The prophets did not understand totally what they were speaking by the power of the Holy Spirit in them ( they looked in scripture for what they spoke).
Generally the prophets manifested the spiritual gifts:
With of knowledge
Word of wisdom
Healing
Discerning spirits
Raised the dead
etc,
Daniel spoke the tongues on the wall, their meaning (intreptetation too).

God hid information in creation (a lot like tongues).
Jesus interpreted:
The seed is the Word of God
The ground is men’s hearts

There are many parallels we tend to miss.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Your parallels are a digression for the OP.

 

[eddif]

Hey All,
I have questions about the use of the gift of tongues. I see them used in
Acts 2:2-4. (First recorded usage, that I know, of the gift.)

What is your understanding?

The OP
Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[journeyman]

OK.
But if it is done in a church setting, or even in public, and there is an interpreter of tongues present, all will be edified.

Yes if you had a visitor who could converse with a congregation member or another visitor.

Though not impossible, (as God can do anything), I can't see the Spirit of God speaking to God in French or Chinese.
Why then would it be referred to as the tongues of angels ?

Because it's a heavenly gift for angels not to be confused by any of mankinds babble. Angels apparently understand any human language. This doesn't mean a person possessing this gift could speak every human language, but only as the Holy Spirit shared it. Paul said,

I thank my God I speak with tongues more than ye all. 1Cor.14:18 KJV

He was Apostle to the gentiles. Paul wasn't speaking in some unearthly language that couldn't be understood.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes if you had a visitor who could converse with a congregation member or another visitor.

Because it's a heavenly gift for angels not to be confused by any of mankinds babble.

For angels ?
Got a scripture for that idea ?

Angels apparently understand any human language. This doesn't mean a person possessing this gift could speak every human language, but only as the Holy Spirit shared it.

Agreed.

Paul said,
I thank my God I speak with tongues more than ye all. 1Cor.14:18 KJV

Was he referring to the gift of tongues that believers receive with the Holy Ghost ?
Or was he referring to the ability to speak with foreigners ?

He was Apostle to the gentiles. Paul wasn't speaking in some unearthly language that couldn't be understood.

If he prayed privately in tongues, he was praying with the tongues of angels.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
See, l just don't believe you could pull any tongue (language) out of a hat, and Paul could speak it.

Tongues is a gift of the Spirit. The person speaking is just the vessel. And if pay attention to the passage in Acts, they heard one language, Galilean, being spoke: But understood that language in their native language. I count sixteen different locations, and presumably languages, mentioned. I have never seen this happen.

The scoffers blamed it on the new wine. If wine could make you do that, I might start drinking it.


Acts 2:7-13 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.


I have heard unintelligible gibberish with an English interpretation. The interpretation was uplifting but nothing specific. It was conducted in an orderly fashion. So maybe. But I would think if the Holy Spirit speaks through someone it would be so powerful, there would be no questions. In Acts 2, the people were amazed. In the church I was attending, it seemed like like business as usual. I am not sure tongues, in their true form, would be such a nonchalant occurrence.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hey All,
See, l just don't believe you could pull any tongue (language) out of a hat, and Paul could speak it.

Tongues is a gift of the Spirit. The person speaking is just the vessel. And if pay attention to the passage in Acts, they heard one language, Galilean, being spoke: But understood that language in their native language. I count sixteen different locations, and presumably languages, mentioned. I have never seen this happen.

The scoffers blamed it on the new wine. If wine could make you do that, I might start drinking it.


Acts 2:7-13 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

They all heard it in their own languages.
The apostles were speaking in those languages.

I have heard unintelligible gibberish with an English interpretation. The interpretation was uplifting but nothing specific. It was conducted in an orderly fashion. So maybe. But I would think if the Holy Spirit speaks through someone it would be so powerful, there would be no questions. In Acts 2, the people were amazed. In the church I was attending, it seemed like like business as usual. I am not sure tongues, in their true form, would be such a nonchalant occurrence.

I agree.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[journeyman]

For angels ?
Got a scripture for that idea ?

Anywhere angels speak to humans it's obvious humans understand what the angel is saying.

Was he referring to the gift of tongues that believers receive with the Holy Ghost ?
Or was he referring to the ability to speak with foreigners ?

The only gift of tongues imparted by the Holy Spirit is the ability to speak a language that a believer didn't learn through study.

If he prayed privately in tongues, he was praying with the tongues of angels.

Paul said if the congregation doesn't understand the language that's spoken, then be quiet... because,

Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me.....You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.
1Cor.14:10-11,17 NIV

 

[Hopeful 2]

Anywhere angels speak to humans it's obvious humans understand what the angel is saying.

For sure, but I don't include that in the Spiritual gift of tongues of the OP.

The only gift of tongues imparted by the Holy Spirit is the ability to speak a language that a believer didn't learn through study.

I disagree, as Paul sys..."Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." (Rom 8:26-27)
Praying in tongues doesn't have to be done in French or Japanese.

Paul said if the congregation doesn't understand the language that's spoken, then be quiet... because,..
Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me.....You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.
1Cor.14:10-11,17 NIV

That is right, but speaking in tongues during a service is not the same as praying in tongues in private.
The first is done for the edification of the group...if there is an interpreter.
But the second is done in the privacy of personal communication between the Spirt the repentant receive and God; and is for personal edification.

 

[electedbyhim]

1 Corinthians 14:14 kjv
14. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

1 Corinthians 14:14-17

Paul continued to speak sarcastically (cf. 1Co_14:16; 1Co_4:8-10) about counterfeit tongues, so he used the singular "tongue" (see note on 1Co_14:2-39), which refers to the fake gift. He was speaking hypothetically to illustrate the foolishness and pointlessness of speaking in ecstatic gibberish. The speaker could not understand; and what virtue is there in praying to God or praising God without understanding? No one can "Amen" such nonsense.