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So What nation can Field A 200 million man army? ID = China = Kings Of The East. Where will they come 2? Euphrates and Valley of Jehosophat?Wheres That? Modern Iraq and Israel. Who do they fight? The Kings Of The North. Who are they? Confederation of Nations out 2 destroy Israel? Pretty Simple!
 
reznwerks said:
Much of the end times centers on identyfying certain groups (Jews Arabs Christians etc) and their role they will play. The reality is that no one is pure blood anymore (if there ever was such a thing). Nations cannot be pinpointed by genetics as to God promising such and such. The same genes appear through both the Arabs and Jews.

http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/346genetics.html

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

http://www.ariga.com/genes.shtml

These type of genetic studies remind me of the debates that "proved" thus-and-so are not the lost tribes of Israel because they do not have DNA "like the Jew" whatever that is supposed to mean. I never studied genetics much, but I have gone on site after site to get enough of an opinion that a solid conclusion cannot be drawn--- there's too much disagreement yet. However, I am with Doppelganger on this, at least in the sense of nations. I gave up the idea of race, per se, and adopted lineages and nationalities. What does the genealogy say in spite of the supposed DNA?

Back to the lost tribes--- I think that trying to trace their DNA is fruitless. I made one big mistake when I discussed this before by not starting out the conversation with the fact that the bible's mention of them does not require they have the DNA of the Jew. First of all, Ephraim mixed himself with the nations (Hosea 7:8), and the nations of Israel are a culturally diverse stock (Ezekiel 17:23 --- fowl of every wing). So that blows the racist idea. I believe based on prophecy we are to look for a racially diverse group of people, a mighty people, a commonwealth of nations, and those who were traditionally Christian. That's where they all are, right under our noses (that's what the bible shows).

Besides, the Jew is in the lost house of Israel's family tree, but not their pedigree. An illness that affects a Jew will not affect an israelite necessarily because they are cousins, other branches. And the same can be said of all mankind thru Noah---- whose sons BTW genetically diverged, so the same can be said of Jacob's sons over many more generations.
 
race

Tim , you are one of the few people that has moved forward and given up on the idea of linking prophecy to genetics. However the bible is clear in that it uses genetic identification as to prophecy. The reality is that the genetic Israel (for lack of a better term) cannot be surrounded by her enemies because the Arabs and Jews share much of the same genetics. There is no pure distinction. The nation of Israel itself can be surrounded by it's enemies but I really am not of the frame of mind that God is not really a politician and doesn't care about who owns what piece of dirt. To believe this would make God a racist.

As to Dopp's comment of 200 million army. It is open ended and the comment was written by a man who was banished for years alone on an island. What the mental state he was in when and if he wrote it we will never know. As of about a 100 years ago it was possible for the countries in the east to mount an army of 200 million and I would suspect that it will be possible for an army of 200 million to be assembled a thousand years from now. Considerieng the growth of technology it is unlikely that an army of 200 million will be doing any marching at all.
 
LOL u funny REZ!
I'm Just saying its not that difficult to Identify who the Jews are since Hilter tryed to have them exterminated after his talk with Haj Amin el Husseni. Practicing Jews were marked so by their religion. Anyone who would submit to Hebrew Law could be called Jews. Besides that they are of Semitic bloodlines which would also include Israel and other ancient nations of the Middle East. Solomon was half Hittite! Christs lineage isnt even without a few foriegn additions. Likewise its not hard to identify the Lost Tribes. The house of Israel and Judah even to God were 2 distinct entitys. We know the tribes of the house of Israel went over the Caucaus Mtns to Settle and Migrated from there. Josephus tells us so, so does Tacitus. They became the Saka, Sakas & Sakasone (Saxons), Scythians (Succoth-ians Scots), Beth Cumbri (House of Omri) etc... Scythoplis in the Providence of the Tribes of Israel is named after them because they were there for some 20-30 years before they decided to leave on there own. Jeremiah went to the British isles with Baruch and Zedekiah's daughters, because Nebuchadezer thought the kingly line could only be passed through the male lineage. Its not hard to see that China can be the only nation on the planet that can field an army as large as 200 million men!
 
ÃÂoppleganger said:
LOL u funny REZ!
I'm Just saying its not that difficult to Identify who the Jews are since Hilter tryed to have them exterminated after his talk with Haj Amin el Husseni. Practicing Jews were marked so by their religion. Anyone who would submit to Hebrew Law could be called Jews. Besides that they are of Semitic bloodlines which would also include Israel and other ancient nations of the Middle East. Solomon was half Hittite! Christs lineage isnt even without a few foriegn additions. Likewise its not hard to identify the Lost Tribes. The house of Israel and Judah even to God were 2 distinct entitys. We know the tribes of the house of Israel went over the Caucaus Mtns to Settle and Migrated from there. Josephus tells us so, so does Tacitus. They became the Saka, Sakas & Sakasone (Saxons), Scythians (Succoth-ians Scots), Beth Cumbri (House of Omri) etc... Scythoplis in the Providence of the Tribes of Israel is named after them because they were there for some 20-30 years before they decided to leave on there own. Jeremiah went to the British isles with Baruch and Zedekiah's daughters, because Nebuchadezer thought the kingly line could only be passed through the male lineage. Its not hard to see that China can be the only nation on the planet that can field an army as large as 200 million men!

I'm with you Doppelganger on the Lost Tribes, and Zedekiah's daughters. If Christendom would see this, and Judaism for that matter, we would not have debates about the DaVinci code (as interesting as the movie was) which IMO is the world's substitute for the Davidic throne. In other words, reject the truth and these alternate theories try to fill the gap, and then the church tries to disprove the alternatives, but does not have anything in its place to offer. Like I always say, if one wants to quit smoking, replace it with a beneficial habit---- don't just scare the person into quitting because they may get cancer.
 
end

ÃÂoppleganger said:
LOL u funny REZ!
I'm Just saying its not that difficult to Identify who the Jews are since Hilter tryed to have them exterminated after his talk with Haj Amin el Husseni. Practicing Jews were marked so by their religion. Anyone who would submit to Hebrew Law could be called Jews. Besides that they are of Semitic bloodlines which would also include Israel and other ancient nations of the Middle East. Solomon was half Hittite! Christs lineage isnt even without a few foriegn additions. Likewise its not hard to identify the Lost Tribes. The house of Israel and Judah even to God were 2 distinct entitys. We know the tribes of the house of Israel went over the Caucaus Mtns to Settle and Migrated from there. Josephus tells us so, so does Tacitus. They became the Saka, Sakas & Sakasone (Saxons), Scythians (Succoth-ians Scots), Beth Cumbri (House of Omri) etc... Scythoplis in the Providence of the Tribes of Israel is named after them because they were there for some 20-30 years before they decided to leave on there own. Jeremiah went to the British isles with Baruch and Zedekiah's daughters, because Nebuchadezer thought the kingly line could only be passed through the male lineage. Its not hard to see that China can be the only nation on the planet that can field an army as large as 200 million men!
Hitler was trying to exterminate the genetic Jew. He wasn't trying to exterminate the religion even though he used the religion as a barometer in order to do so. The reality is that Jews and Arabs have the same DNA which I am sure Hitler would have found unbelievable. If we accept your premise that lowers God to a politician who works behind the scenes. I just don't see the creator of the universe being involved in this. The Jews were supposed to be his chosen people. Chosen based on what? Their politics?
As to Josephus and Tacitus telling us where the lost tribes went I would have to see some evidence to that one. Both of them lived long after the supposed events and if what you are saying is true the tradition of the "lost tribes" would not have survived so long and in fact is considered a present day mystery. The rest of your post regarding the Jews is nothing more than a hypothesis put forth by who knows.
Again let me respond to your 200 million man army. It doesn't have to be China as India itself is in the east as well as closer geopgraphically. It is far more likely that India is what is being referred to than China not that it really matters. Many of the religions of India have very similar stories and traditions matching Christianity. You are trying to make the claim that because they have the potential for this manpower the end is imminent. I am telling you that the so called prophecy is open ended as both countries will be able to field that large of an army a thousand years from now.
 
The fact about Hitler is he wanted to deport the Jews originally, until he met Husseini!
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/

2ndly German scientists of that period were the prime movers of white & aryan sciences
that dealt with race superiority and craniology. This was brought on in part by German
ideology, evolutionistic dogma, irreligious attitudes centered on man not God. It was
recently reporting in the news that once Germany won the war there where plans to
rebuild Germany which included Hitler remaking the capital building in resemblance to
the Vatican but on a larger scale? They were occultist basically, which is why they had
such a fascination with the Ark, the spear of Destiny, and other Judeo, Christian, &
Religious artifacts?

3rdly Tacitus's and Josephus's accounts are widely known even you should know that.
Yair Davidiy a Jew has been doing work on this for years in his book The Location of
Lost Israelite Tribes in the West According to the Bible, Jewish & Non-Jewish Tradition,
and General Fact.

Flavius Josephus Jewish historian in Jewish Antiquaties in his Book 11, ch5, states:
"Wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while
the 10 Tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to
be estimated by numbers". 2nd Esdras 13:40-45 Those are the ten tribes, which were
carried away prisoners out of their own land in the time of Osea the king, whom
Salmanasar the king of Assyria led away captive, and he carried them over the waters,
and so came they into another land. But they took this counsel among themselves, that
they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country,
where never mankind dwelt, That they might there keep their statutes, which they never
kept in their own land. And they entered into the Euphrates by the narrow places of the
river. For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till
they were passed over. For through that country there was a great way to go, namely,
of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth. The Gate of Israel can
be found today in the Caucaus Mtns. 1131 A.D. the famous Rabbi Moses Maimonides, called
the Second Moses', wrote: "I believe the Ten Tribes to be in various parts of Europe".

Perhaps one of the most telling of the commonalities is simply the self-identification as
Israelites -the Hibernians- the name of the Irish and the Scots and the Hebrides Islands
off Scotlands coast. The Milesians, early Celtic peoples to come to Ireland from Spain
had a tradition that they were of the Lost Tribes. The name Heber, Eber, or H’berian is
found throughout early literature to describe the Celts as they described themselves to
be “Of Eber†- the grandfather of Abraham. Celtic scholar, Sir John Rhys, gives strong
evidences of Hebrew colonization in Ireland "it was Ivernii in Ptolomy's time; and he
mentions a town there called Ivernis, and a river Ivernios. To these may be added various
forms of the name of the island such as Juvenal's luuerna, distorted more usually by the
Romans into Hibernia. THEIR EPONYMOUS ANCESTOR ... is variously called EBER, Emer, and
HEBER.' (ibid., p. 262-3) Where Zarah left to on Ships of Dan during the exodus. In Spain
today the city of Zaragosa sits on the Eber river in the valley of Guadalajira, Which
literally translated means wadi=valley of the Iberiu. This is also Proved By the Fact
Solomon Collected Tribute out of Spain. Moses Margoliouth was a learned and respected
minister in the Church of England of the nineteenth century. As his name might indicate,
he was also of Jewish extraction. His book, The History of the Jews in Great Britain states
thats A very interesting discovery of two monuments found in Spain inscibed with “A Hebrew
epitaph†of great antiquity, reads, “This is the grave of Adoniram, the servant of King
Solomon, who came to collect the tribute, and died on the day...†Also, “a large stone near
the gate of the citadel†in Murviedro, Spain “still retains on the front, two lines in the
Hebrew language and characters...’ The sepulcher of Adoniram, the servant of King Solomon’â€Â
Pastor Margoliouth sums up this issue well in saying, “I see no reason for disbelieving that
there were [Israelites] in Spain in the time of David and Solomon - startling as it may appear
There existed colonies of Hebrews all over the world, in the reigns of David and Solomon.â€Â
An Old Song of The Isles Staes Joseph was a tin man! Joseph who? Joseph of Arimetha!

Fortescue & Coke, state that the Brutus and Molmutine laws have always been regarded
as the foundation and bulwark of British liberties, and are distinguished for their
clearness, brevity, justice and humanity. The original laws of this land were composed
of such elements as Brutus first selected from the ancient Greek and Trojan institutions.
A Trojan law mentioned by E.O.Gordon, decreed that the sceptre might pass to a queen as
well as to a king; this law was embodied by King Molmutius who built Concord. Diodorus
Siculus states, 'These people obtain the tin by skilfully working the soil which produces
it.'Herodotus speaks of the British Isles under the general term 'Cassiterides or the Tin
Islands. Sir Edward Creasy, in his History of England, states: "The British tin mines
mainly supplied the glorious adornment of Solomon's temple, and thence also came the chief
material of the armour of the kings and chieftains of heroic Greece".

Sharon Turner, famous historian, states: "The Anglo­Saxons, Lowland Scots, Normans and
Danes all sprung from that great fountain of the human race which we have distinguished
by the terms Scythian & Gothic. The first appearance of the Scythian tribes in Europe may
be placed in the seventh century before the Christian era. The migrating Scythians crossed
the Araxes, passed out of Asia, and suddenly appeared in Europe in the 6th century B.C."
(Note: This was the exact time of the release of the 10 Tribes from their captivity). John
Milton, writing in his History of Britain (1670), says of the Saxons: "They were a people
thought by good writers to be descended of the Sacae, a kind of Scythians in the north of
Asia, thence called Sacasons, or sons of Sacae..." (pp 506-7, l835 edn). (Sacae was derived
from Saac, another name of the same people. Saac was derived from Isaac, the 'I' being
unpronounceable in Hebrew, as they had no letter 'I'. Hence also Saac-sons).

The Rev Jacob Torillin, in his Comparative Vocabulary of 48 Languages, states: "About one
fourth of the words in our own Saxon tongue bear an affinity with the Hebrew in primary or
secondary degree. Not only in words does this affinity exist... but in the arrangement of
ideas and in the single structure of the sentences it also has a near agreement". Thompson,
in his work, Outline of Manx Literature and Language says that “in several respects Gaelic
syntax has similarities with that of languages like Hebrew and Arabicâ€Â. In the 18th century,
historians discovered exciting proof of Phoenician-Celtic ties. An ancient Roman dramatist,
Titus Maccius Plautus wrote a play, the Penulus in which he placed then current Phoenician
into the speech of one of his characters. Some of the Tribe of Asshur were known as!

PHOENICIAN OF PLAUTUS:

Byth lym mo thym nociothii nel ech an ti daisc machon

Ys i do iebrim thyfe lyth chy lya chon temlyph ula.

EARLY IRISH-CELTIC:

Beth liom' mo thime nociaithe, niel ach an ti dairie mae coinne

Is i de leabhraim tafach leith, chi lis con teampluibh ulla.

The name “Britain†itself “is a corruption of the Hebrew words Barat Anach,†or islands of tin. We read that “an eminent Cornish scholar of last century, who devoted a great deal of his time to prove the affinity between the Hebrew and Welsh languages, observes, ‘It would be difficult to adduce a single article or form of construction in the Hebrew grammar, but the same is to be found in Welsh, and that there are many whole sentences in both languages exactly the same in the very words.’†Two columns of quotations follow, showing the connection between the Hebrew and Welsh languages, after which Pastor Margoliouth asks, “where could [the early Britons] have got hold of such whole Hebrew, purely Hebrew, sentences?â€ÂProper names are next referenced. Kings of ancient Britain often had Hebrew names, such as Solomon (three different kings!), Daniel, Abraham, Asaph, and Adam, “from which circumstance some antiquarians attempted to prove that the Welsh are descendants of the children of Israel.†Pastor Margoliouth
expresses that he is being “very moderate†in establishing that at the very least, ancient Israelites had been “mixing with the Britons†in forming the foundation of the modern British people. Charles Hulbert, in his Religions of Britain (1825) states: "So near is the resemblance between the Druidical religion of Britain and the Patriarchal religion of the Hebrews, that we hesitate not to pronounce their origin the same". Cassell's History of England states: "The Druidical rites and ceremonies in Britain were almost identical with the Mosaic ritual". To the Celts, time was circular rather than linear. Like Hebrew each day began at dusk rather than at dawn.

The List goes on and on and I've barely Stratched the Surface, so I'll stop here, & end with this!

Gen. 13:16 And I will make your seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall your seed also be numbered. This means that a staggering number of people would eventually descend fm Abraham, introduces two related points: (1)
A number of this magnitude  as the [grains of] dust of the earth  has to be far more than just the Jews, and (2) a passage suggesting other nations must be included.
 
Doppelganger:

You are knowledgable, too, regarding the lost house of Israel. I love reading about the stuff you just posted.

I'll tell you what, however, Don't knock yourself out trying to prove this to skeptics. You have good company with me, and maybe for some open-minded people who have not come to any conclusions yet (Jesus called it new wine) but don't try putting this stuff into old wineskins. Lord knows, I tried and I could write posts a thousand miles long containing all the evidence (as it is based on tons of scripture, and it is what the bible is about, frankly) and many still don't get it.

They are not supposed to get it, I presume. The Lord hid the lost tribes so well, that they can be under our noses and people won't see them. As a matter of fact, that's one sign of an Israelite, i.e. when they are too thick-headed to see it. God's Word said this would be the case, otherwise, they would not be lost tribes. Just be thankful you are able to see it, and understand with all spiritual knowledge and discernment.
 
facts

Dopple all of you "facts' are questionable at best. There were many many theories of what happened to the so called lost tribes if in fact there were any at all. Josephus was only rehashing what was told up to his time but he has no facts to speak of as the incident occurred long before him and Tacitus was probably only copying from Josephus. Regardless of if and where they may have gone the tribes have intermingled and no pure tribes exist. Your post on Hitler assumes and he was wrong that pure bred national geneologies existed.That is why is was so interested in evolution. He assumed the fair skinned, light hair, blue eyed German was superior genetically and was pure. Here is a long list of theories of where the lost tribes might have been.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... 5&letter=T
 
I agree Tim he just dont get it, probably the 3 greatest mysteries that God has given us in the OT is the Pyramid of Giza, The Gospel in the Stars and The Identity of The Lost Tribes. No other explaination qualifies! And why are Scythians in the Holy Land, and why would a city be named after them?This is almost a qualifier and those sources aren't at all vague! I could have named more Jewish sources That state the same thing?!? I guess no matter how much reliable info you give them its never enuf! I could have post the geneologies of western europe that date back to Davids Line but whats the use! I JUST HAVE TO LOOK AN ENCYCLOEDIA OR TO THE JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA THATS ALL! ROFLOL! Ah anyways thats it 4 me in this post! Peace!
 
ÃÂoppleganger said:
I agree Tim he just dont get it, probably the 3 greatest mysteries that God has given us in the OT is the Pyramid of Giza, The Gospel in the Stars and The Identity of The Lost Tribes. No other explaination qualifies! And why are Scythians in the Holy Land, and why would a city be named after them?This is almost a qualifier and those sources aren't at all vague! I could have named more Jewish sources That state the same thing?!? I guess no matter how much reliable info you give them its never enuf! I could have post the geneologies of western europe that date back to Davids Line but whats the use! I JUST HAVE TO LOOK AN ENCYCLOEDIA OR TO THE JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA THATS ALL! ROFLOL! Ah anyways thats it 4 me in this post! Peace!

I love the study of the pyramid and God's Word in the stars as well. You really are my Doppleganger, or perhaps I'm yours. It almost sounds as if I am posting to myself or my brother. I've been busy doing mundane things these days, working, raising teenage sons, etc. but now you diverted my interest back again to reading more about the pyramid. That made my day!

I love to look at things mathematically. I find it hard how anyone can dismiss the pyramid inch, and not be able to relate that to the lost tribes being in Britain as associated nations. And the 25.0265 inch sacred cubit and all that neat stuff. I really laugh my you-know-what off when for example in biblical measure many of these so-called experts believe in the 18" cubit and 5.8 gallon bath and then try to force 2000 of these into Solomon's laver described in the book of Kings. Can't hardly get half of the volume of water into it.

I started to realize the issue was not about truth, as mathematics does not lie. The real issue is that no matter how infallible the proof is, it will still be dismissed in favor of "traditions of men".
 
I suggest that Abram had the same kind of DNA that he had after becoming Abraham.

And all the tower of Babel ones? It would seem that they were all of the ONE heavenly language prior to the language change. And their DNA was now to be changed, what scripture says that??? And the spiritual Jew of Romans 2:28-29 merits some type 'less' pedigree in their DNA.

Naw, I firmly believe (Ephesians 4:14) being Born Again does not change ones blood type! :wink: And that the Righteousness of Christ is the Blood TYPE that is the Eternal Gospel Requirement!---John
 
CLAIMS

ÃÂoppleganger said:
I agree Tim he just dont get it, probably the 3 greatest mysteries that God has given us in the OT is the Pyramid of Giza, The Gospel in the Stars and The Identity of The Lost Tribes.
God gave us the Pyramid of Giza? I don't think so. Gospel in the stars? How so? The identity of the Lost Tribes? You may be able to make an assumption of where they might have gone but the reality is that they no longer exist genetically. As I said I don't believe the creator dabbles in politics .



No other explaination qualifies! And why are Scythians in the Holy Land, and why would a city be named after them?
Having the same name might be a clue as to their origins but you still fail to understand that it is now meaningless.

This is almost a qualifier and those sources aren't at all vague! I could have named more Jewish sources That state the same thing?!? I guess no matter how much reliable info you give them its never enuf! I could have post the geneologies of western europe that date back to Davids Line but whats the use!

I don't know where you get these ideas. The tradition of last names started about a thousand years ago. You can track anyone beyond a few hundred years. Even the geneology of the bible and Joseph contradicts itself.

I JUST HAVE TO LOOK AN ENCYCLOEDIA OR TO THE JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA THATS ALL! ROFLOL! Ah anyways thats it 4 me in this post! Peace!
Why on ROFLOL? They take it as seriously as you take yourself.
 
Yes Doppleganger--- I see what you're up against. It's hard enough to talk about lost tribes to those who claim to believe the bible (e.g. evangelical Christians). But when you are up against someone who does not even believe the bible itself, in this case, geneaologies as an example, when God's geneologies are infallible, it's doubly hard.

I won't even begin to debate with someone who does not believe the bible, because the bible is the basis for the prophecies about the lost tribes, as you well know, and then corroberating evidense shows that is the case.

Lost Tribes doctrine has its basis in the bible in other words and can stand by itself without the evidence. But the skeptics think we take the evidence first, twist the bible to fit it and thus create our own story. I already knew about lost tribes as a kid just by reading the bible before I was ever exposed to all these other ideas. So that blows that theory to you know where.
 
geneology

tim_from_pa said:
Yes Doppleganger--- I see what you're up against. It's hard enough to talk about lost tribes to those who claim to believe the bible (e.g. evangelical Christians). But when you are up against someone who does not even believe the bible itself, in this case, geneaologies as an example, when God's geneologies are infallible, it's doubly hard.
The bible can hardly be an example of reliable geneology. Do some homework and compare Matthew 1:1-16 and Luke 3:23-38

I won't even begin to debate with someone who does not believe the bible, because the bible is the basis for the prophecies about the lost tribes, as you well know, and then corroberating evidense shows that is the case.
The bible is the ONLY basis for the prophecies of the lost tribes. However what you fail to understand is that the "lost tribes" no longer exist so any prophecy is null and void.

Lost Tribes doctrine has its basis in the bible in other words and can stand by itself without the evidence.
That may be what you believe but does it make sense? All the genes have become interminged forever ending any possibility of identity.

But the skeptics think we take the evidence first, twist the bible to fit it and thus create our own story.

I couldn't have said it better myself. You have spoken like a true Christian. As usual and you admit as much when you take the assumptions first and then look for the evidence to confirm it. If none exists that just means it hasn't been found yet but the assumptions stand as assumed. Can I ask where you went to school?


I already knew about lost tribes as a kid just by reading the bible before I was ever exposed to all these other ideas. So that blows that theory to you know where.
The bible is the only place you are going to find anything about the lost tribes and the bible is not a textbook. Some things are accurate and some things are not. Prophecy can't be fulfilled when they have been corrupted genetically. The tribes no longer exist
 
Like I said, won't debate anything if the bible is not accepted because I am a Christian. There's nothing in common or any point of reference to talk apples when the other only knows about oranges.
 
One other thing Reznwerks. Matthew's genealogy and Luke's genealogy do not contradict. One is from the father's lineage and the other from the mother's lineage. I do my own family genealogy and I can word the generations to sound exactly like the bible's acoount, and its not a contradiction. The genealogy sounds logical to me.

Sounds like you have a (negative) preconceived notion and the bible is twisted to fit that notion to support your view (i.e., the erroneous claim that it contradicts).
 
links

tim_from_pa said:
One other thing Reznwerks. Matthew's genealogy and Luke's genealogy do not contradict. One is from the father's lineage and the other from the mother's lineage. I do my own family genealogy and I can word the generations to sound exactly like the bible's acoount, and its not a contradiction. The genealogy sounds logical to me.

Sounds like you have a (negative) preconceived notion and the bible is twisted to fit that notion to support your view (i.e., the erroneous claim that it contradicts).
=======
Tim they never used the mothers lineage to trace anything. If it was ever suggested that the bible was doing this they would have laughed it all the way down the street. The geneology does contradict and all you have to do is as I suggest and get a piece of paper and write down what you find. In it you will discover contradictions in parents, missing members etc. However let me humor you a bit and accept your premise of Jesus being decended through Mary. In it you will find that JOSEPH is in line rather than Mary. How does this happen? Further getting past this is another problem because Mary is decended though NATHAN not Solomon making the prophecies in 2 Samuel 7:12-16 and 1 Chronicles 22:10 false.

Another problem with the Mary lineage is that Mary's cousin Elizabeth was decended from the house of Aaron of the tribe of Levi . LUKE 1:5
If we use the Matthew lineage we find that Jesus is decended through Jeconiah and this was cursed line by GOD himself. God cursed them so that neither of these men would have any decendent to the thrown of David. The Jews really know what they are talking about when they don't accept Jesus as the Messiah.Matthew 1:11-12 + Jeremiah 22:28-30 and 1 Chronicles 3:16 + Jeremiah 36:30 versus Luke 1:32
Then we have the age old problem of the conflict which is if Joseph is Jesus father then he is not the son of God. You can't have it both ways.You really should give atheists a lot more credit for what they know.
 
Re: links

reznwerks said:
Tim they never used the mothers lineage to trace anything. If it was ever suggested that the bible was doing this they would have laughed it all the way down the street. The geneology does contradict and all you have to do is as I suggest and get a piece of paper and write down what you find. In it you will discover contradictions in parents, missing members etc. However let me humor you a bit and accept your premise of Jesus being decended through Mary. In it you will find that JOSEPH is in line rather than Mary. How does this happen? Further getting past this is another problem because Mary is decended though NATHAN not Solomon making the prophecies in 2 Samuel 7:12-16 and 1 Chronicles 22:10 false.

The answer to that is simple. The lineage of Jesus' father Joseph is his legal lineage thru Solomon, which entitles him to the throne, without being the blood lineage but an adopted son frees him of the blood lineage from Jehoiachin. However, if he was from the lineage of Nathan, that makes him a blood son of King David. So if he is a blood son of David, and a legal heir, he has the right to the throne. Meanwhile, that's one reason that I believe in lost tribes doctrine. The promise of an eternal Davidic throne (if we believe the bible) is for all generations. That lineage was then perpetuated thru Zedekiah's daughter , an alternate lineage, and yes, we are allowed to trace inheritance by daughters if the male heirs are missing (c.f. Numbers 36), so I do not agree about not tracing lineage by the mother. (c.f. also Ezekiel 17:22-24) 'tender twig')

reznwerks said:
Another problem with the Mary lineage is that Mary's cousin Elizabeth was decended from the house of Aaron of the tribe of Levi . LUKE 1:5

Mary could be a Levite but that does not mean she was just because her cousin was. Already you snagged yourself by showing you did not think this out clearly. You came to an improper conclusion there.
 
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