Isn't John the Baptist a miracle too?

[PurpleClover]

Why wasn't John the Baptist's conception considered immaculate? As well as being told she herself would conceive, Mary was also told "your old sister will be pregnant too".
This was advised in a divine conversation and involved a prophecy and, presumably, a miracle in that Mary's sister was too old to conceive. So why isn't John the Baptist considered more holy?

 

[JLB]

Why wasn't John the Baptist's conception considered immaculate? As well as being told she herself would conceive, Mary was also told "your old sister will be pregnant too".
This was advised in a divine conversation and involved a prophecy and, presumably, a miracle in that Mary's sister was too old to conceive. So why isn't John the Baptist considered more holy?

John the Baptist had a man for a father, thus conceived with a body tainted with sin.

Jesus Christ was born of a virgin with a sinless body.



JLB

 

[Randy]

Why wasn't John the Baptist's conception considered immaculate? As well as being told she herself would conceive, Mary was also told "your old sister will be pregnant too".
This was advised in a divine conversation and involved a prophecy and, presumably, a miracle in that Mary's sister was too old to conceive. So why isn't John the Baptist considered more holy?

immaculate - no
spotlessly clean an immaculate kitchen immaculate uniforms. 2 : having or containing no flaw or error an immaculate record of service in immaculate detail. 3 : having no stain or blemish : pure an immaculate heart.
(in the Roman Catholic Church) free from sin.

Miracle - yes
a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.

So by definition of these words Johns birth can be seen as a answer to prayer. A Miracle

So the churches meaning of immaculate conception is that Jesus as the Son of God did not have a sin nature as He was without sin.

All others (mankind) are born with a sin nature. It is through Christ that we are set free from being a slave to sin.
As Jesus testified

They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

The one in us is greater than the one in this world. Born of the Spirit.

 

[eddif]

Why wasn't John the Baptist's conception considered immaculate? As well as being told she herself would conceive, Mary was also told "your old sister will be pregnant too".
This was advised in a divine conversation and involved a prophecy and, presumably, a miracle in that Mary's sister was too old to conceive. So why isn't John the Baptist considered more holy?

Matthew 11:11 kjv
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Jesus exalts John the Baptist ( the man ) to the highest position.

Being born again is different.

eddif

 

[JLB]

So the churches meaning of immaculate conception is that Jesus as the Son of God did not have a sin nature as He was without sin.

Actually the Roman Catholic term Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being born without sin.


Im·mac·u·late Con·cep·tion
/iˈˌmakyələt kənˈsepSHən/

noun

1. the doctrine that God preserved the Virgin Mary from the taint of original sin from the moment she was conceived; it was defined as a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in 1854.

 

[for_his_glory]

John the Baptist had a biological mother and father, but Jesus never had a biological father as Mary was found with child of the Holy Ghost, Matthew 1:1-25. God found favor in John's parents, Zechariah and Elizabeth as Elizabeth was Mary's cousin, that he would be chosen to be the forerunner of Christ preparing the way of the Lord, Matthew 3:1-12.

Luke 1:26-38 Gabriel announces to Mary that of Christ's birth through her as she found favor in God. This all came about before her and Joseph were married so Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Notice in this verse that only Mary is mentioned as normally people would say the son of Joseph and Mary. Jesus had four half brothers, James, Joses, Juda and Simon and some sisters, but it's not known how many sisters he had or what their names were. The reason they were all half brothers and sisters is because Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus.

Mary's descent comes through David's son Nathan, Luke 3:31. To fulfill God's promise to establish David's throne forever, God honored Nathan by making him the ancestor of the promised King (Messiah) who would sit on David's throne throughout eternity, Luke 1:31-33. Mary having no brothers to inherit the throne the inheritance would come to her first son being Jesus.

This is why God found favor only in Mary as still being a virgin before she married. Joseph descent from David was broken in being heir to the throne of David as one of his ancestors named Jeconiah (Coniah) was so evil God cursed him and his descendants from ever sitting on the throne of David, Matthew 1:1-17; Jeremiah 22:24-30; 1 Chronicles 3:17. This doesn't mean that Joseph was evil, but means none of his children could ever sit on the throne of David.

 

[eddif]

John the Baptist had a biological mother and father, but Jesus never had a biological father as Mary was found with child of the Holy Ghost, Matthew 1:1-25. God found favor in John's parents, Zechariah and Elizabeth as Elizabeth was Mary's cousin, that he would be chosen to be the forerunner of Christ preparing the way of the Lord, Matthew 3:1-12.

Luke 1:26-38 Gabriel announces to Mary that of Christ's birth through her as she found favor in God. This all came about before her and Joseph were married so Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Notice in this verse that only Mary is mentioned as normally people would say the son of Joseph and Mary. Jesus had four half brothers, James, Joses, Juda and Simon and some sisters, but it's not known how many sisters he had or what their names were. The reason they were all half brothers and sisters is because Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus.

Mary's descent comes through David's son Nathan, Luke 3:31. To fulfill God's promise to establish David's throne forever, God honored Nathan by making him the ancestor of the promised King (Messiah) who would sit on David's throne throughout eternity, Luke 1:31-33. Mary having no brothers to inherit the throne the inheritance would come to her first son being Jesus.

This is why God found favor only in Mary as still being a virgin before she married. Joseph descent from David was broken in being heir to the throne of David as one of his ancestors named Jeconiah (Coniah) was so evil God cursed him and his descendants from ever sitting on the throne of David, Matthew 1:1-17; Jeremiah 22:24-30; 1 Chronicles 3:17. This doesn't mean that Joseph was evil, but means none of his children could ever sit on the throne of David.

I really would like some more insight into this:
Hebrews 5:8 kjv
8. Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9. And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10. Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

No physical importance of physical parents, but a spiritual mention of who he was. (Melchizedek)

eddif

 

[Randy]

Actually the Roman Catholic term Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being born without sin.


Im·mac·u·late Con·cep·tion
/iˈˌmakyələt kənˈsepSHən/

noun

1. the doctrine that God preserved the Virgin Mary from the taint of original sin from the moment she was conceived; it was defined as a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in 1854.

That's a embarrassing snafu but they went of the deep end with Mary. No one comes to the Father except by Christ because in Him is no sin. If Mary had no sin she would not have needed Christ.

For us after Christ - by the Spirit
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Likewise could Jesus have remained faithful by the Spirit in dealing with the same weaknesses? He was clear the Father was living in Him. He of course didn't need the washing and cleansing part as He was without sin. But I do believe He had the same weaknesses and temptations of the flesh as we do but overcame the world as a servant.

 

[D-D-W]

So the churches meaning of immaculate conception is that Jesus as the Son of God did not have a sin nature as He was without sin.

Actually, the "immaculate conception" was of Mary, NOT Jesus. She had to be born sin-free to carry Deity in her womb.

Most protestants do not understand that bit of Catholic doctrine.

 

[JLB]

That's a embarrassing snafu but they went of the deep end with Mary. No one comes to the Father except by Christ because in Him is no sin. If Mary had no sin she would not have needed Christ.

For us after Christ - by the Spirit
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Likewise could Jesus have remained faithful by the Spirit in dealing with the same weaknesses? He was clear the Father was living in Him. He of course didn't need the washing and cleansing part as He was without sin. But I do believe He had the same weaknesses and temptations of the flesh as we do but overcame the world as a servant.

Yes, very sad.

The Catholic dogma teaches that Mary is Co-Mediator (Mediatrix) with Christ.


Mediatrix

Description​

In Catholic Mariology, the title Mediatrix refers to the intercessory role of the Blessed Virgin Mary as a mediator in the salvific redemption by her son Jesus Christ and that he bestows graces through her. Mediatrix is an ancient title that has been used by many saints since at least the 5th century.




JLB

 

[Randy]

Actually, the "immaculate conception" was of Mary, NOT Jesus. She had to be born sin-free to carry Deity in her womb.

Most protestants do not understand that bit of Catholic doctrine.

Yes, thank You

I think most protestants do not agree with a sinless Mary.

 

[Randy]

Yes, very sad.

The Catholic dogma teaches that Mary is Co-Mediator (Mediatrix) with Christ.


Mediatrix

Description​

In Catholic Mariology, the title Mediatrix refers to the intercessory role of the Blessed Virgin Mary as a mediator in the salvific redemption by her son Jesus Christ and that he bestows graces through her. Mediatrix is an ancient title that has been used by many saints since at least the 5th century.




JLB

Apparently the apostles didn't understand that either.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

 

[for_his_glory]

I really would like some more insight into this:
Hebrews 5:8 kjv
8. Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9. And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10. Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

No physical importance of physical parents, but a spiritual mention of who he was. (Melchizedek)

eddif

The importance of Mary was that she was the earthly mother of Jesus who found favor in the Lord to bring forth the Christ child from her womb as she was the biological mother of Jesus. Read the full context of Hebrews 5:1-10 as Jesus is identified as High Priest forever after the order of Melchizedek who was not only a king, but also a priest in his life time as Jesus now assumes the role of King of kings and High Priest for all eternity through His life, death and resurrection as He will return as King of kings and Lord of lords, Rev 19:11-16.