The Gift of Faith

[TrevorL]

Do you consider that some people have the "Gift of Faith" today? Pentecostals and some factions of the Evangelicals claim that they possess the Gifts of the Holy Spirit which the early believers received, but I have not seen any real evidence, although I have only ever attended, on one occasion, one Pentecostal meeting. I could not endorse their Pastor speaking in an unknown (to me at least) tongue, and a young lady "interpreting" what he said. Also the two attempts at healing by the Pastor including the prayers and laying on of hands by two assistants failed to heal the patients. One had a bad knee due to a motorbike accident, the other had a bad case of the flu.

One of my Baptist workmates, when some "activity" occurred in his Baptist Church, and as a result he left and joined another local Baptist Church, and he said to me "THAT is NOT the Holy Spirit." He and his wife were singers who used to visit and sing in the various local Baptist Churches. They seemed to be the old fashioned Billy Graham type Baptists. I saw one example of what was claimed to be the Holy Spirit on You-tube and I consider that this was horrendous and God dishonouring, even though a large audience seemed to quietly endorse this extreme "activity".

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Everybody has a measure of faith.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

So all faith comes from God.

2 Corinthians 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,

The faith we are given can be increased.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith comes by hearing (being taught) the Word of God. This is also how we can grow our faith. We all know there are degrees of faith. There is basic faith where a person believes in Jesus, but their belief does not affect their life. Then, on the other end of the spectrum, is the person who involves their faith in every aspect of their life. Once a person starts living their faith, God can use that person for His glory.

1 Corinthians 13:1-2 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

So we can have all the faith that God can give. But if our faith is not based upon agape (charity or love) it is worth nothing.
What makes faith of value?
Faith needs our agape to be effective for us and for others. Faith through agape reflects God's grace. This is a very good thing.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are God's workmanship through the new creatures we are, created in Jesus, for good works. Reflecting God to a lost world is a very good thing. Our grace, which comes through the faith we have been given, faith matured by hearing God's Word, faith perfected through agape, then reflects the grace of God, and creates need of same in those who are lost. This is what happens when we start living our faith.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[follower]

I saw one example of what was claimed to be the Holy Spirit on You-tube and I consider that this was horrendous and God dishonouring, even though a large audience seemed to quietly endorse this extreme "activity".

It is I think very likely that most religous readers either quietly or with a lot of 'noise'/singing/misc. activity endorse the activities that are not fit nor proper for followers of Jesus, that have nothing to do with serving the One True God in faith; rather are dis-crediting Him by sinful soulish emotional behaviors and choices (of the will).

 

[follower]

So all faith comes from God.

For clarity; where does faith in a antichrist teacher come from ? This is extremely pertinent since so many in the usa and worldwide put their faith in a television personality who was in bed with satan, deliberately and by his own ongoing choice even after being warned in 1948 when he was still young.

 

[hawkman]

Pentecostals and some factions of the Evangelicals claim that they possess the Gifts of the Holy Spirit which the early believers received, but I have not seen any real evidence, although I have only ever attended, on one occasion, one Pentecostal meeting.

Yes , the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are still active among God's people today . We won't bite , you are welcome to attend more meetings .

I could not endorse their Pastor speaking in an unknown (to me at least) tongue, and a young lady "interpreting" what he said.

Why not ?

Also the two attempts at healing by the Pastor including the prayers and laying on of hands by two assistants failed to heal the patients. One had a bad knee due to a motorbike accident, the other had a bad case of the flu.

Not all are healed . I have seen my daughter healed twice when prayed for once the healing was something a doctor said she had to have surgery to repair , the doctor was very perplexed when the problem went away without and surgery .

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Hawkman,

Yes , the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are still active among God's people today . We won't bite , you are welcome to attend more meetings .

The taste of this particular meeting was sufficient for me to cast doubt upon the whole procedure, and it has been backed up by some other encounters without attendance at a specific meeting. I mentioned my Baptist friend at work, who I had great respect for. I could give you a link to a Baptist Minister claiming the Holy Spirit and claiming to be passing this gift onto other Baptist Ministers. To me, he is acting in an absolutely deranged manner, and yet the congregation seem to be approving of his farce. A local Baptist lady changed when the Pentecostal type movement affected some of the local Baptist Churches, and she tried to heal my wife of a cold, and her voice became changed, almost a bit more squeaky, as if she imagined that the Holy Spirit was speaking through her. I put this down to her vivid imagination even though she was very sincere. My wife was not at all happy with her advance.

Why not ?

I had the problem that the Pastor was very conscious of my presence when he gave his talk, and he gave his speaking in tongues first, for say 3-4 minutes, and then asked for the interpretation. After this he addressed almost me exclusively, and knowing my particular beliefs he dismissed some of my foundations of faith, the promises given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob concerning the Land. Also the Young Lady who interpreted and her brother were in the car with me and with their mother on the way home, some 30 miles, and they asked my impression of the evenings activities. They tried to convince me of their core belief, as Oneness Pentecostals, and I am very convinced differently, that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is a human, now exalted, sitting at the right hand of God, and is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection. I understand that God endorsed the beliefs and sincere faith of the Samaritans and those with Cornelius by granting them the Holy Spirit. I do not accept the concept that God grants the Holy Spirit and endorses either Trinitarians and Oneness Pentecostals.

Not all are healed . I have seen my daughter healed twice when prayed for once the healing was something a doctor said she had to have surgery to repair , the doctor was very perplexed when the problem went away without and surgery .

Nevertheless I do believe that God and Jesus are in control, and do answer individual prayers on some occasions, and possibly this despite their lack of proper beliefs. I am not willing to assess or comment further on individual cases. God cares for all his creation. But overall, I doubt that any community have the Holy Spirit today as given in the First Century. I believe that it could occur again AFTER the return of Jesus, and accompanying his resurrected faithful as they preach to the nations.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[hawkman]

I had the problem that the Pastor was very conscious of my presence when he gave his talk, and he gave his speaking in tongues first, for say 3-4 minutes, and then asked for the interpretation.

The red flag is asking for an interpretation . I have never seen an instance where an interpretation was asked for after a message in tongues was given out . If the Holy Spirit gives the message He will be ready with the interpretation if needed . 3-4 minutes , wow , most of the messages I hear are of less that 30 seconds .

Oneness Pentecostals

I am not of this group . Church of God , Cleveland TN is mine .

But overall, I doubt that any community have the Holy Spirit today as given in the First Century.

God does not change and there is only one Holy Spirit .

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Hawkman,

The red flag is asking for an interpretation . I have never seen an instance where an interpretation was asked for after a message in tongues was given out . If the Holy Spirit gives the message He will be ready with the interpretation if needed . 3-4 minutes , wow , most of the messages I hear are of less that 30 seconds .

The young Lady who replied also went for about the same length of time and I did not understand what she was talking about.

God does not change and there is only one Holy Spirit .

I consider the gifts of the Holy Spirit were a special provision for the early Ekklesias, as many were isolated and the Apostle Paul moved on, and there was initially not much NT portions written. As the individual members grew in understanding and the availability of the NT became more widespread, the gifts became redundant 1 Corinthians 13, Ephesians 4.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[hawkman]

I consider the gifts of the Holy Spirit were a special provision for the early Ekklesias, as many were isolated and the Apostle Paul moved on, and there was initially not much NT portions written. As the individual members grew in understanding and the availability of the NT became more widespread, the gifts became redundant 1 Corinthians 13, Ephesians 4.

You could consider that , but consider this . I received the gift of tongues at my salvation ( was I ever surprised !) , so that left me with no doubt that the gifts are not "redundant" , well at least if God has anything to say about it .

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Hawkman,

You could consider that , but consider this . I received the gift of tongues at my salvation ( was I ever surprised !) , so that left me with no doubt that the gifts are not "redundant" , well at least if God has anything to say about it .

I will let you determine this for yourself, but I have my doubts as to the reality of this, and whether it is the same as the 1st century gifts. I cannot test your claim. I think more in terms of what happened in Acts 2, where the pilgrims heard their own language, rather than an unknown tongue.

I will mention one other experience. My son-in-law and daughter became more or less isolated in a country region, and decided to go the local Baptist Church. My daughter was continually pestered by a neurotic woman who kept on saying and delivering "I have a message for you", as if the Holy Spirit was speaking through her as its medium. No one else in the Congregation attempted to intervene, or properly befriend them. My family members decided to leave for good after a number of these encounters on a few visits.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[hawkman]

I will mention one other experience. My son-in-law and daughter became more or less isolated in a country region, and decided to go the local Baptist Church. My daughter was continually pestered by a neurotic woman who kept on saying and delivering "I have a message for you", as if the Holy Spirit was speaking through her as its medium.

The woman could of had a "word of knowledge" for them from the Holy Spirit . If they would have let the woman speak they could have tested the Spirit to see if it was from God or not . The Holy Spirit once gave me two words of knowledge and the words were "That's demonic." . I am told things in my dreams too .

No one else in the Congregation attempted to intervene, or properly befriend them.

That is sad that no one would befriend them or ask if they understood why the woman was wanting to talk to them .

My family members decided to leave for good after a number of these encounters on a few visits.

I understand .

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Hawkman,

The woman could of had a "word of knowledge" for them from the Holy Spirit . If they would have let the woman speak they could have tested the Spirit to see if it was from God or not

I did say that she also "delivered" the message. My daughter considered what she said was nonsense. In a sense they felt a little isolated as they had shared a few of their own beliefs, different to a few of the Baptist's views and as a result most members in their meeting did not feel at ease talking to them. This "Holy Spirit" inspired woman felt no such constraints.

That is sad that no one would befriend them or ask if they understood why the woman was wanting to talk to them .

Judging from what my daughter said, many of the members may have felt at ease avoiding being pestered themselves by this particular woman with a bad habit.

Another experience is that in the division of the Baptist Church nearer to where I worked, we had one Baptist who stayed and another who joined the local Pentecostal Church and then became a part time Pastor. We used to have a lunch time Bible Class once each two weeks. On one occasion he damaged himself in a surfing accident and he shared with me that he asked his Senior Pastor if he wanted his injury to be an healing occasion. The Pastor suggested that he had better go to the Doctor over that type of injury.

Getting back to the OP, have any of your members been given "The Gift of Faith"? or is there only tongues and healing?

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[hawkman]

Gifts of the Holy Spirit , 1 Corinthians 12 .

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Getting back to the OP, have any of your members been given "The Gift of Faith"? or is there only tongues and healing?

I would trust God that some do have the Gift of Faith , could it be that you TrevorL have the Gift of Faith ?

What do you think a Gift of Faith would be ?
We are not given much info above in the verses .

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Hawkman,

I would trust God that some do have the Gift of Faith , could it be that you @TrevorL have the Gift of Faith ?
What do you think a Gift of Faith would be ?
We are not given much info above in the verses .

I do not believe in the present possession of the Holy Spirit Gifts 1 Corinthians 13 and Ephesians 4. My faith has grown in quantity and quality over many years, with many factors contributing, but not primarily by direct Spirit infusion. I look to the example of Abraham and the various stages in his development as a pattern for the faithful.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[hawkman]

Getting back to the OP, have any of your members been given "The Gift of Faith"? or is there only tongues and healing?

Word of Knowledge is another Gift of the Holy Spirit I have , as I said in a previous post .

The Holy Spirit once gave me two words of knowledge and the words were "That's demonic." . I am told things in my dreams too .

TrevorL , have you ever had a dream of your future ? God can send you one , it happened to me .

I hope and pray ALL Christians are part of " them that believe" .

Mark 16

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

[Josef]

For clarity; where does faith in a antichrist teacher come from ? This is extremely pertinent since so many in the usa and worldwide put their faith in a television personality who was in bed with satan, deliberately and by his own ongoing choice even after being warned in 1948 when he was still young.

Hey All,
Do you consider this person the antichrist? Or is he just an antichrist? There have been many antichrists. The word "antichrist" is only found in the apostle John's letters.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

What constitutes being called an antichrist?
They are a liar.
They deny Jesus is the Christ (Messiah).
They deny Jesus has come in the flesh.


If this person was warned in 1948, and he was old enough to understand the warning, this would put him around 85-90 years old now.
1948-2024 = 76 years
But then we need to add enough time for the person to be mature enough to understand what he is being warned about. Even if we say he is a genius, he needs to be mature enough to understand world affairs, and biblical prophecy. If we give him somewhere between age 10 -15, that would put this person between 86 - 91 years old.
That greatly narrows down who it might be. It also narrows down the time he has to act. At that advanced of age, time is not on his side. Plus, whoever it is, he/she is not the last one.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Tenchi]

Do you consider that some people have the "Gift of Faith" today?

God has given to every normally-functioning person a measure of faith (Romans 12:3). You can see this is so in their exercise of faith in all sorts of things every day. Even atheists have faith in their spouse, doctor, dentist, barber, etc. Anyway, are there folks with a special ability to "have faith"? No, I don't think so. Some may be more credulous, even gullible, willing to believe things without good cause for doing so, but I don't think this is anything like the sort of faith God intends for us as His children to exercise. Faith and knowledge go hand-in-hand, the greater the latter the greater the former. And so, the Bible says things like;

2 Timothy 1:12
12 ...for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me.

Romans 10:14
14 ...how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?...

1 John 4:16
16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us...

2 Timothy 3:14-15
14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of...

And so on.

I suppose there are some televangelists who want to make out that the credulous, gullible Christian, willing to believe blindly, has a "gift of faith" that they should exercise fully in trusting all that the televangelist says to them, but the spiritually-mature believer will have none of this sort of "faith."

 

[LovethroughDove]

The gift I see in believers would be................

Galatians 5:22-25 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

This is the true gift. The Spirit trains us to live on how it is in heaven.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,

"This is the true gift. The Spirit trains us to live on how it is in heaven." Quote from LovethhroughDove

Please explain further.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Hawkman,

Word of Knowledge is another Gift of the Holy Spirit I have

Did you bypass the following method?
Proverbs 2:1–11 (KJV): 1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; 2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; 3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; 4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; 5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. 6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. 7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly. 8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints. 9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.
10 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul; 11 Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:

Kind regards
Trevor