Was Paul Heretical in Teaching Sinless Perfection?

[Hopeful 2]

With the thread that perfect obedience to God is a heresy, I thought I would search out some of the things Paul said about it.
Rom 3:20-22..." Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:"
I don't consider that heretical.
I have faith that his words are true, so the righteousness of God can be mine through that faith !

Rom 12:1..."I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."
I don't consider that heretical.
I have 66 more verses with more commands and exhortations to purity, righteousness, and perfection.
Besides the ones from Paul, I also have 34 more from the other apostles that agree with Paul.

We can be perfectly sinless, here on earth.

 

[Hopeful 2]

With the thread that perfect obedience to God is a heresy, I thought I would search out some of the things Paul said about it.
Rom 3:20-22..." Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:"
I don't consider that heretical.
I have faith that his words are true, so the righteousness of God can be mine through that faith !

Rom 12:1..."I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."
I don't consider that heretical.
I have 66 more verses with more commands and exhortations to purity, righteousness, and perfection.
Besides the ones from Paul, I also have 34 more from the other apostles that agree with Paul.

We can be perfectly sinless, here on earth.

Here are a couple more...
"Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Cor 1:8)
And..."Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:" (1 Cor 2:6)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

With the thread that perfect obedience to God is a heresy, I thought I would search out some of the things Paul said about it.

Only Jesus was perfectly obedient to God, there is no one else righteous, no, not one. No one is sinless except Christ.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Only Jesus was perfectly obedient to God, there is no one else righteous, no, not one. No one is sinless except Christ.

Jesus was the first one, and now, our example.
It is written..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." ( 1 John 2:3-6)

Is John exhorting the impossible ?
No.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Jesus was the first one, and now, our example.
It is written..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." ( 1 John 2:3-6)

Is John exhorting the impossible ?
No.

John didn't say, claim or imply that we can be sinless like Jesus, because this world is sinful and fallen, no one can be sinless as no one lives in a vacuum.

 

[Hopeful 2]

John didn't say, claim or imply that we can be sinless like Jesus, because this world is sinful and fallen, no one can be sinless as no one lives in a vacuum.

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." (1 John 2:3)
If we know Him we will walk as He walked.
If we don't know Him, we won't.
The reborn are not of this world.

 

[GodsGrace]

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." (1 John 2:3)
If we know Him we will walk as He walked.
If we don't know Him, we won't.
The reborn are not of this world.

THE OP TITLE HAS BEEN CHANGED TO SUIT YOUR INTENDED TOPIC.

 

[Hopeful 2]

THE OP TITLE HAS BEEN CHANGED TO SUIT YOUR INTENDED TOPIC.

Thanks, but...
My intention was to make the adherents of a sinful life admit Paul was not a heretic even though he preached perfect obedience to God.
If perfect sinlessness is a heresy, the preachers of it are heretics.
Please change the OP title back.

It is written, by Paul..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks, but...
My intention was to make the adherents of a sinful life admit Paul was not a heretic even though he preached perfect obedience to God.
If perfect sinlessness is a heresy, the preachers of it are heretics.
Please change the OP title back.

It is written, by Paul..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)

Will send a PM.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If we know Him we will walk as He walked.
If we don't know Him, we won't.
The reborn are not of this world.

Again, John didn't say, claim or imply "sinless perfection", he only said keep the Lord's commandments - love God with all your heart, soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. It's essentially the same as Jesus himself asked in Jn. 14:15 - "If you love me, keep my commandments."

 

[Hopeful 2]

Again, John didn't say, claim or imply "sinless perfection"

If Jesus was sinless, and we are to walk as He did, won't we be sinless too ?
Of course we will !

he only said keep the Lord's commandments - love God with all your heart, soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. It's essentially the same as Jesus himself asked in Jn. 14:15 - "If you love me, keep my commandments."

Do you think anyone loves God ?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If Jesus was sinless, and we are to walk as He did, won't we be sinless too ?
Of course we will !

No we won't. I told you before, the more mature one is in Christ, the more one will be aware of their sins and shortcomings, instead of pretending they're sinless and looking down at everybody else as sinners.

Do you think anyone loves God ?

Depends on whether you think of "love" as a feeling or an action. I can't speak for you.

 

[JLB]

With the thread that perfect obedience to God is a heresy, I thought I would search out some of the things Paul said about it.
Rom 3:20-22..." Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:"
I don't consider that heretical.
I have faith that his words are true, so the righteousness of God can be mine through that faith !

Rom 12:1..."I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."
I don't consider that heretical.
I have 66 more verses with more commands and exhortations to purity, righteousness, and perfection.
Besides the ones from Paul, I also have 34 more from the other apostles that agree with Paul.

We can be perfectly sinless, here on earth.

There is no such teaching in scripture called sinless perfection.

The way we are to be cleansed of our sin is by confessing our sin.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

• If you say you have NO SIN you deceive yourself, and the truth is not in you.

Furthermore -

• If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

The way we are cleansed and forgiven our sins is by confessing our sin.

• If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The Apostle John here says if we, meaning himself and those who follow Christ Jesus, confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive us.


Do you claim to be sinless?

If you do, the scripture plainly and clearly states that you are a liar, and you make our Lord to be a liar, and that you have deceived yourself.



JLB

 

[Hopeful 2]

No we won't. I told you before, the more mature one is in Christ, the more one will be aware of their sins and shortcomings, instead of pretending they're sinless and looking down at everybody else as sinners.

Nobody is unaware of their sins.
Every sin requires enticement, temptation, lust, and conception. (James 1:14-15)
Without those elements, there is no sin.
We are to walk as Jesus walked, and it is quite possible to do, for those with the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Depends on whether you think of "love" as a feeling or an action. I can't speak for you.

Feelings are manifest with actions.
Stealing from a neighbor doesn't illustrate love.
Neither does any other sin.
Only righteousness can manifest love.

 

[Hopeful 2]

There is no such teaching in scripture called sinless perfection.

You are correct.
They used terms like righteousness, and sanctified, and blameless..

The way we are to be cleansed of our sin is by confessing our sin.

Confession certainly comes before water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin.

Do you claim to be sinless?

Yes, I have confessed my past sins and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for their remission.
My repentance from sin has stood the test of time.
I walk in the light.
Praise and glory to God for showing us the way !

If you do, the scripture plainly and clearly states that you are a liar, and you make our Lord to be a liar, and that you have deceived yourself.

Then nobody walks in the light.

I know I have posted this before, but it won't hurt to post it again...
Verses 5, 7, and 9, of 1 John 1, are addressing those who walk in the light, which is God, in Whom is no sin.
Verses 6, 8, and 10, of 1 John 1, are addressing those who walk in darkness, which is sin.
Those walking in sin cannot say they have fellowship with Father, or that they have no sin.
Those walking in God can say both !
It is an A-B, A-B, A-B, system of writing the juxtaposes one condition against another, in this case, walking in light-God and walking in darkness-sin.
Paul used the same system of writing in Romans 8, juxtaposing walking in the flesh against walking in the Spirit.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Nobody is unaware of their sins.
Every sin requires enticement, temptation, lust, and conception. (James 1:14-15)
Without those elements, there is no sin.
We are to walk as Jesus walked, and it is quite possible to do, for those with the gift of the Holy Ghost.

If there's no sin, why did Christ have to die on the cross? Why do we have to maintain a continuous relationship with Jesus and take up our own crosses? With this attitude of insisting that you're sinless, you're not walking as Jesus walked, you're walknig as Satan walked - with pride.

Feelings are manifest with actions.
Stealing from a neighbor doesn't illustrate love.
Neither does any other sin.
Only righteousness can manifest love.

More often than not, feelings are just feelings, they come and go, not manifest with any actions. Maybe a few empty words, but no solid action ensues that actually mean anything. That's why most people think as love, but that's not love, that's just a feeling.

 

[Hopeful 2]

If there's no sin, why did Christ have to die on the cross?

Because there was sin.

Why do we have to maintain a continuous relationship with Jesus and take up our own crosses?

To both go to our own crucifixion, and to keep the old man dead.

With this attitude of insisting that you're sinless, you're not walking as Jesus walked, you're walknig as Satan walked - with pride.

Did Jesus ever command anyone to quit sinning ?
"Go, and sin no more."
Why do you think that command is unperformable ?

More often than not, feelings are just feelings, they come and go, not manifest with any actions. Maybe a few empty words, but no solid action ensues that actually mean anything. That's why most people think as love, but that's not love, that's just a feeling.

As we were talking about "love", true love will be acted on.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Because there was sin.

And there still is.

To both go to our own crucifixion, and to keep the old man dead.

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” (1 Cor. 15:50-54)

Last time I checked, we're still living corruptible bodies, everyone is living in a corruptible body, no one but Jesus is glorified into an incorruptible body.

Did Jesus ever command anyone to quit sinning ?
"Go, and sin no more."
Why do you think that command is unperformable ?

Because no one can live a perfectly sinless life except Jesus himself.

As we were talking about "love", true love will be acted on.

I tend to avoid using it because it's THE most abused word in English language. Our language is being corrupted.

 

[Hopeful 2]

And there still is.

And there will be sin until Jesus returns to give every man what he deserves

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” (1 Cor. 15:50-54)
Last time I checked, we're still living corruptible bodies, everyone is living in a corruptible body, no one but Jesus is glorified into an incorruptible body.

The vessel will rot away, but converts walk in the Spirit and place no value on the vessel.
It's not the vessel that will get judged on the last day.

Because no one can live a perfectly sinless life except Jesus himself.

Him and everybody "in Him".

I tend to avoid using it because it's THE most abused word in English language. Our language is being corrupted.

OK.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

And there will be sin until Jesus returns to give every man what he deserves

Then why do you still persistently advocate for "sinless perfection"?

The vessel will rot away, but converts walk in the Spirit and place no value on the vessel.
It's not the vessel that will get judged on the last day.

Wrong, the vessel is a temple of the Holy Spirit! Disregarding physical body is gnostic dualism - "material bad, spiritual good". That's a common philosophy, but it ain't biblical.
"Do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? " 1 Cor. 6:19

Him and everybody "in Him".

No, only him.