What is the Great Tribulation?

[reddogs]

Now if you ask, the answer a lot of people give is that is a seven or more years at some time in the future. But the early Church was persecuted from the very beginning, first by the Jews first, then the pagan Romans, then the Papal Romans. So the Church was going through tribulation since it’s beginning, first through the persecution and crucifixion of Christ Himself, then through tribulation in relation to His Apostles, and followers and all through the Dark Ages. Now we find that the dragon or Satan was persecuting the church as soon as as it was founded by Christ and the Apostles.

Revelation 12:1-6
1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The man child is Christ, and the woman was the Church, during a great time of tribulation when the facts of the prophecy are examined closely.

Psalms 2:1-12
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Isaiah 11:1-5
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Revelation 19:13-16
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

The above scriptures are all in relation to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is He who is, and will rule the nations with a rod of iron, and there would be conflict and great tribulation up to then, which we have seen and will be till the end.

 

[LeviR]

I disagree that the man child is Christ because the Revelation is prophecy and prophecy speaks of things to come, not things that already occurred.

 

[miamited]

I disagree that the man child is Christ because the Revelation is prophecy and prophecy speaks of things to come, not things that already occurred.

Hi LeviR

For the record, the writing is about the 'revelation' of Jesus. That begins with his birth.

God bless,
Ted

 

[LeviR]

Hi LeviR

For the record, the writing is about the 'revelation' of Jesus. That begins with his birth.

God bless,
Ted

The revelation of Jesus is called the prophecy of Jesus and the spirit of prophecy, it is of things to come not of things in the past.
Prophecy does not predict who won last years Super Bowl.

 

[miamited]

The revelation of Jesus is called the prophecy of Jesus and the spirit of prophecy,

Hi LeviR

What's your evidence for that? Because the word' revelation' has to do with revealing. I've never heard anyone say that the writing is the 'prophecy of Jesus'.

God bless,
Ted

 

[follower]

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed

That is the work they do, daily.

 

[LeviR]

Hi LeviR

What's your evidence for that? Because the word' revelation' has to do with revealing. I've never heard anyone say that the writing is the 'prophecy of Jesus'.

God bless,
Ted

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,” (Rev 1:1)

The idea of “things which must shortly take place” refers to things that will occur quickly.
If you look at the Greek it will confirm this.

Revelation 1:1 Interlinear: A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did signify it, having sent through his messenger to his servant John,

​

 

[miamited]

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,” (Rev 1:1)

Hi again LeviR

Yes, the main impetus or thrust or intentions of the book we call Revelations, is future prophecy of all that is going to be happening on the earth and also some of what will be happening in heaven. However, I'm not sold on the idea that a book that is 'mainly' about these future events must necessarily not include a sentence or two about 'how' Jesus' life started.

I am, however, willing to look at your understanding of what the woman who travails and gives birth to a child that Satan is waiting to devour, means to tell us. Consider also, as far as Jesus is concerned, once Jesus offered his sacrifice, Satan knew that he wasn't going to devour Jesus. So, in your understanding, 'who' is the woman? 'Who' is the child? And if it's not Jesus, 'why' is Satan trying to devour said child? The Scriptures further tell us that after the child is born and Satan finds that he can't devour the child, we are told that he then goes out to attack those who believe the testimony of Jesus. Has that happened yet or not?

God bless,
Ted

 

[LeviR]

Hi again LeviR

Yes, the main impetus or thrust or intentions of the book we call Revelations, is future prophecy of all that is going to be happening on the earth and also some of what will be happening in heaven. However, I'm not sold on the idea that a book that is 'mainly' about these future events must necessarily not include a sentence or two about 'how' Jesus' life started.

I am, however, willing to look at your understanding of what the woman who travails and gives birth to a child that Satan is waiting to devour, means to tell us. Consider also, as far as Jesus is concerned, once Jesus offered his sacrifice, Satan knew that he wasn't going to devour Jesus. So, in your understanding, 'who' is the woman? 'Who' is the child? And if it's not Jesus, 'why' is Satan trying to devour said child? The Scriptures further tell us that after the child is born and Satan finds that he can't devour the child, we are told that he then goes out to attack those who believe the testimony of Jesus. Has that happened yet or not?

God bless,
Ted

The time of trouble is a time that never was since there was a nation. This time of Jacob’s trouble will be unlike any time of trouble in the past which Israel experienced.
The woman is the remnant of the twelve tribes of Israel who are believers and who will conquer and rule the world under the execution of God’s judgments that are being poured out upon His people and the nations during this short time(7 years).
The man child is a mortal man like David who is to be king over God’s kingdom to be established on earth.
Christ, and the resurrected and immortal(unseen) saints, rule the kingdom as immortal kings and priests.
It will be similar to when God ruled from His throne in heaven. God was King over Israel but had setup David to be king over Israel.
In the restoration of this, Christ will be King like God was, and a man like David will rule over Israel and the nations with a rod of iron.

There was an immortal Kingdom of God and His angels in the past and a mortal kingdom on earth.
So it will be again. There will be an immortal kingdom of Christ and his saints, and a mortal kingdom on earth consisting of the twelve tribes of Israel under their man child king.

 

[JLB]

Now if you ask, the answer a lot of people give is that is a seven or more years at some time in the future. But the early Church was persecuted from the very beginning, first by the Jews first, then the pagan Romans, then the Papal Romans. So the Church was going through tribulation since it’s beginning, first through the persecution and crucifixion of Christ Himself, then through tribulation in relation to His Apostles, and followers and all through the Dark Ages. Now we find that the dragon or Satan was persecuting the church as soon as as it was founded by Christ and the Apostles.

Revelation 12:1-6
1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The man child is Christ, and the woman was the Church, during a great time of tribulation when the facts of the prophecy are examined closely.

Psalms 2:1-12
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Isaiah 11:1-5
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Revelation 19:13-16
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

The above scriptures are all in relation to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is He who is, and will rule the nations with a rod of iron, and there would be conflict and great tribulation up to then, which we have seen and will be till the end.

Your scripture from Revelation 12 is right on the money.


The great tribulation that Jesus refers to just before His coming and the end of the age is described for us in The Olivet Discourse.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21


And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:14-21

• Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), … For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

A good understanding of what was written in the book of Daniel about this subject, especially since it was given to Daniel directly by the angel Gabriel, will lead to the conclusion that the great tribulation is three and a half years, which is also written as 1260 days, and a time, times and a half of time.


Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days. Revelation 12:6


Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
Daniel 12:7


The understanding of this time frame is further developed in Daniel 12 as we see 1290 days and 1335 days mentioned, which correlate to the key phrase and start of the great tribulation which is “the abomination of desolation”.


“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
Daniel 12:11-12


Hopefully we can all discuss these things from the scriptures, not from the teachings of man.






JLB

 

[miamited]

The time of trouble is a time that never was since there was a nation. This time of Jacob’s trouble will be unlike any time of trouble in the past which Israel experienced.
The woman is the remnant of the twelve tribes of Israel who are believers and who will conquer and rule the world under the execution of God’s judgments that are being poured out upon His people and the nations during this short time(7 years).
The man child is a mortal man like David who is to be king over God’s kingdom to be established on earth.
Christ, and the resurrected and immortal(unseen) saints, rule the kingdom as immortal kings and priests.
It will be similar to when God ruled from His throne in heaven. God was King over Israel but had setup David to be king over Israel.
In the restoration of this, Christ will be King like God was, and a man like David will rule over Israel and the nations with a rod of iron.

There was an immortal Kingdom of God and His angels in the past and a mortal kingdom on earth.
So it will be again. There will be an immortal kingdom of Christ and his saints, and a mortal kingdom on earth consisting of the twelve tribes of Israel under their man child king.

Hi again LeviR

And the final question I don't see an answer for here. Has this time that is spoken of when Satan goes out to attack those who believe in the testimony of Jesus, happened yet?

God bless,
Ted

 

[LeviR]

Hi again LeviR

And the final question I don't see an answer for here. Has this time that is spoken of when Satan goes out to attack those who believe in the testimony of Jesus, happened yet?

God bless,
Ted

No, the adversary of believers during this time of trouble is the Antichrist or man of sin king of Israel who sets up the abomination of desolation in the temple.
The temple has not yet been rebuilt.

 

[JLB]

The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.
Daniel 7:24-25

• Then the saints shall be given into his hand for a time and times and half a time.

JLB

 

[LeviR]

The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.
Daniel 7:24-25

• Then the saints shall be given into his hand for a time and times and half a time.

JLB

The persecution of the remnant of believers in Israel under the reign of Antichrist 3.5 years.

 

[miamited]

No, the adversary of believers during this time of trouble is the Antichrist or man of sin king of Israel who sets up the abomination of desolation in the temple.
The temple has not yet been rebuilt.

Hi LeviR

Here's the passage:

Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
And two references explaining for us 'who' the dragon is:
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

So, I'm not sure that your understanding that the 'dragon' is the Antichrist would be in keeping with the Scripture's instructions as to 'who' the dragon is.

God bless,
Ted

 

[JLB]

The persecution of the remnant of believers in Israel under the reign of Antichrist 3.5 years.

The great tribulation which is persecution of the saints of God; the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is 3.5 years.

Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:13-17




JLB

 

[LeviR]

Hi LeviR

Here's the passage:

Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
And two references explaining for us 'who' the dragon is:
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

So, I'm not sure that your understanding that the 'dragon' is the Antichrist would be in keeping with the Scripture's instructions as to 'who' the dragon is.

God bless,
Ted

The antichrist is called the fiery red dragon. Fiery, because he is to try those who dwell on earth, as if by fire. Red, because he spills the blood of many. And dragon because he is an evil king.
The antichrist is the one who claims himself to be God and who demands worship of himself. The ones who refuse to worship him he persecutes and kills for 3.5 years until he is cast down from his high place as ruler over Israel. He is called Satan, that old serpent and the devil because he is the adversary of those who hold the testimony of Christ.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The tribulation cannot begin amidst "peace treaties" & "Cease Fires".
It can only begin at a point that the Nation Israel appears absolutely doomed, with enemies on every side closing in for what looks like without a doubt the fulfillment of " From The River To The Sea". death to all Jews.
This is when Satan's man is revealed & comes on the scene to do what no one believed any human being could do.
All this as Bloody Biden prepares to cut the Jews loose to fend for themselves as he aligns America with Iran .
Setting the table for it all to happen Bloody Biden is .
Hezbollah now just waiting for Bloody Biden to give them the word.
Hezbollah having ten times the firepower, technology , and manpower that Hamas had.
The arrogance of this Nation believing that God does not intervene in the affairs of nations by whatever means He chooses.
This belief as we allow ourselves to be overrun up to our armpits with terrorists streaming across our border by the tens of thousands.
All the while maintaining our arrogance & pride, as our biggest concern is our basketball brackets.
We are literally begging God to make an example of us.
God took a Communist club to Germany and beat them near to death when they turned on the Jews.
God does not change , if He did it to Germany He will do it to America only with us I believe God will finish the job.


For centuries, Petra seemed secure in its unassailable fortress of rock, but today its ruins lie uninhabited, in fulfillment of the prophetic word: “‘As Sodom and Gomorrah were overthrown, along with their neighboring towns,’ says the LORD, ‘so no one will live there; no people will dwell in it’” (Jeremiah 49:18).

 

[JLB]

The antichrist is called the fiery red dragon.

The antichrist is one of his horns... the little horn.

“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words. Daniel 7:7-8


The ten horns are ten kings who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them; he shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings. He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, and shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand for a time and times and half a time. Daniel 7:24-25


Later on he will be called the king of the North, and can be identified by his "pompous" or "blasphemous words"


“Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done. He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. Daniel 11:36-37

• I believe Paul had Daniel 11:36 in mind when he wrote his second letter to the Thessalonians -

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

• the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

• he shall exalt himself above them all. Daniel
• who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God... 2 Thessalonians

JLB

 

[LeviR]

The great tribulation which is persecution of the saints of God; the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is 3.5 years.

Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:13-17




JLB

The execution of God’s judgments take place in the land of Israel. It is when God brings His judgments first upon His people Israel and then upon the nations who have gathered in her land.
The remnant of believers in Israel are of the twelve tribes of Israel and are Jews.
Those remnant are persecuted by the antichrist fiery red dragon king of Israel who demand’s worship of himself and the beast of nations who he allies himself with.
After the dragons time is fulfilled(3.5 years)he will be cast down to the earth from his high place of worship. Which simply means he will be brought low among the people of the earth from his elevated position as king over the earth(people of Israel).
The casting down of the dragon king is brought about by the turning of the nations upon the harlot and her king and his messengers.
This is represented by the war in heaven whereby the angel Micheal and his angels fight unseen against the dragon king and his messengers by and through the enemy nations.
After the judgment has been executed upon the Israelites, God will then judge the nations who were made to judge God’s people and they will fall upon the mountains of Israel.
The remnant of Israel, the 144,000 mortals will have conquered in the end by the working of the invisible king, Christ, and his invisible saints working with them.
Thus begins the kingdom of God on earth. In The land of Israel and Jerusalem where Christ is to reign.