1 John 1: Against self-justifying doctrine

[JLB]

1 John 1 is not just against sinners saying they have no sin, but is specifically about sinners believing they have no sin condemned by God, because they name His name.

Jeremiah 2 shows this is the main source of the Lord's rebuke in 1 John 1:

Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me. Behold, I will plead with thee, because thou sayest, I have not sinned.

It is God still pleading against His own unrepentant people beleiving God is not angry with their sinning, like that of the heathen.

The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.

Wherefore I will yet plead with you, saith the LORD, and with your children's children will I plead.

And we see the source of such hypocrisy is by changing the doctrine of the Lord to justify themselves in their transgressions.

1 John 1 is not a mandate from God for those walking in the light, to also be sinners. It is the old pleading of God against those walking in darkness in His name, who also say they are in the light.

How canst thou say, I am not polluted, I have not gone after Baalim? see thy way in the valley, know what thou hast done:

Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me.

1 John 1 first preaches the doctrine of Christ to walk as He walked in the light, and then rejects doctrinal self-justification while walking in darkness.

For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD.

1 John is written to born again Christians.




JLB

 

[RBDERRICK]

The Question is: what is the Goal?

The question is: what is the goal of God for man. The problem is man choosing his own goal, which began with Adam's transgression.

No man has any goal of holy heaven, while choosing unholiness on earth.

The present goal of God for man on earth, is holiness unto the Lord.

1 Peter 1:14
As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

This goal of God for man is made known by His salvation of man:

Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

When God's goal becomes any man's goal on earth, then he will repent of all his sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake.

Another words when we surrender our lives to God we have Died, and the kingdom is open to us.

Surrendering our lives to God, without repenting of our sinning against God, is the goal of better religious living by sinners.

it's not the goal of God for sons to live the pure and unspotted religion of Jesus Christ:

Jas 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

That means that if needed we are able to draw from heavens authority; therefore we say " In Jesus Name"

Therefore sons overcome temptation to sin in Jesus' name.

Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

So the Goal isn't necessarily one view-heaven when you physically die, but to get heaven in you now.

Exactly true. By repenting from all sinning for Jesus' sake:

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Luke 13:3
And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

The problem of course is that there are as many different goals of man, as their are heavens to different people.

Any heaven that includes sinning more or less, is not Jesus Christ's everlasting kingdom of heaven.

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Which gives me the thought that the ideal of being sealed with the Spirit as a down payment is assurance that God is faithful.

Saints are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise for assurance of being faithful to God.

God is faithful to give grace to help overcome temptation in time of need. And God is faithful to judge our works righteously, whether unto life or death.

IS THE GOAL HEAVEN WHEN WE DIE? OR HAS THAT ALREADY BEEN ACCOMPLISHED?

No man sinning today on earth, has any goal of sinning not forever.

We either repent of our sinning on earth for Jesus' sake, or we are condemned forever for not doing so.

Any ideals sinful man may have of a heavenly goal after the grave, is dashed to pieces by the righteous Lord's judgment of our works.

Sinners can certainly live their own ideal better homes and garden religion on earth, but only living the pure relgion of Jesus Christ abides forever.

1 John 2:17
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Now is the only time for man to repent and have God's goal of a whole new heart and life of Christ.

Ps 6:5
For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

2 Cor 6:2
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Rom 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

There is no repentance granted by God in the grave, but only sure judgment of works.

Heb 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[RBDERRICK]

1 John is written to born again Christians.




JLB

1 John 1 is first written to born again sons of God walking in the light with His Son Jesus.

1 John 1 then writes to unborn sinners naming the name of Christ, that tell each other they are in the light, while walking in darkness with the world.

Matth 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

There are the few that want Jesus Christ enough to repent of sinning for His name's sake.

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Rev 3:4
Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

There are the many that only want His name, but not His commanded repentance to walk with Him.

Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[JLB]

1 John 1 then writes to unborn sinners naming the name of Christ, that tell each other they are in the light, while walking in darkness with the world.

1 John was written to born again Christians.


That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:1-10

 

[Hopeful 2]

1 John is written to born again Christians.




JLB

It is written to Christians, and about false-Christians.

 

[follower]

It is written to Christians, and about false-Christians.

Who reads it today ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Who reads it today ?

Apparently, both.
I first read it while I still walked in the darkness-sin.
Now I read it as one who walks in the light-God.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Who are these " luke warm" people who don't preach repentance?

If we read what others write to understand them correctly, then we can at least disagree with them accurately.

And why do "you" say they are not ambassadors?

Not ambassadors for Jesus Christ's sake, but for another christ of their own making.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

2 Cor 11:13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

There are many other gospels preached in the name of Christ, that are not the gospel preached by the chosen apostles of Jesus Christ.

One of the most common is being saved and justified by one's own faith alone, without repetnance to be jusitified by only doing works God's righteousness.

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Jerem 3:10
And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Why do you say they preach another Christ of their own?

See above. Whatever is not the gospel and christ of Scripture, is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Repenting of all our sins and trespasses, is the command of God to recieve, believe, and obey the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Any other manner of repenting is for another gospel of one's own faith alone.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Now I remember why I do not like you.

DISCLAIMER: I am only here to teach the Bible. If anyone can accurately amend or correct the teaching I give from the Bible, then I will be glad to amend or correct it. If anyone is personally offended by it, without sound correction, then their offense is also the with Author of the Bible.

Gal 1
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

Matth 10:24
The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

I was sharing a testimony about what God did for me opening up, putting my life out there and you start rambling on with what you didn't see.

Bearing witness is one thing. Teaching it for doctrine is another. This is God's doctrinal dispute, not a testimonial dinner.

Getting offended at our 'testimony' passing over repentance from sinning and living godly, speaks volumes.

And no one is doubting that the better homes and garden Christianity, is not a blessing in this life. It's certainly better for neighborhoods than doing evil at all times.

But living by our own faith alone without holy living in all our manners, is good for this life only.

As if you were God and my testimony was not real.

See above.

The question you need to ask yourself is have you repented if you still trying to play God.

DISCLAIMER: I am only here to teach the Bible. If anyone can accurately amend or correct the teaching I give from the Bible, then I will be glad to amend or correct it. If anyone is personally offended by it, without sound correction, then their offense is also the with Author of the Bible.

Couldn't you be the luke warm?

The lukewarm aren't hated for preaching lukewarmness.

The gospel of repentance and the cross I preach, is the one that gets the world most offended and angry. Especially the lukewarm.

Mark 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

People don't care what you have to say until they know how much you care.

People who only care about the truth of what is said, don't much care about how sincerely people say it.

Did not them that had Jesus crucified care? Were they not most sincere? Very much so:

John 11:48:
If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

The greatest corruption of ministry in the name of Christ, is preaching what someone most personally cares about, because they most sincerely want to believe it. Agreement from others soothes their soul and conscience.

Matth 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

And so, disagreement from others is called bullying.

There are Christian sabbath commanders, who declare they are being 'persecuted', because their own sabbath commandment preached to others is rejected and not kept by other Christians.

I believe like charges of bullying, it's called projected martyrdom.

Romans 14:4
Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

The judgment is about the master and service done by the servant's words spoken for his master.

Matth 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[Corinth77777]

in us. 1 John 1:1-10

Tks for this one. My brother told me to look this up. And I responded with this question saying: if one is walking in the light in Christ do they have sin? Or is sin looked over?

So here's a thought . If one is cleansed from sin do they still have sin.

So what does that mean: to be cleansed from all sin. Does it mean you no longer have the Guilt that seperates you. It definitely does not mean you never sinned in the past. Does it mean you are still transgressing the Law if you are cleansed.

Or We have no transgressions of the law?

Does it mean being in the body we automatically transgress the law, Yet are forgiven while transgressing the law?

So my question: Is one transgressing the law if they are walking by the Spirit?

Do you believe that one cannot continually walk by the Spirit and remain in the teachings of Christ and at some point they will walk by the flesh.

JLB

 

[Corinth77777]

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:1-10

There is a dilemma here for me- Even if the author includes Himself. It can be as under those who calls oneself a believer. Like ( if we who are believers " say that we have no sin"

Also here which is good- "if we say we have not sinned" this is in the past

So that leaves one passage to think about- "if we say we have no sin"

If we say we have no transgression of the law:
Here I do not see where it is past or present.
So now it's about going back to context.

Yet if He is writing to those as the Hebrew letter,
those that are in danger of falling under a different teaching. Then yes I can see why He would include Himself.

So with that inference Ill go back and read the book.

 

[Corinth77777]

So lets look at this:

https://classic.net.bible.org/verse.php?book=1Jo&chapter=1&verse=8

This sound like as long as you are in the body you are not free from transgressing the law.

 

[Corinth77777]

Now here is a reason Hopeful 2 I think you are wrong.

Because I believe Abraham was Justified more than once.

So there are particular trust issues that have to be dealt with.

For not only is sin defined as trangressing the law, but - anything that is not of faith.

So you going to tell me that Abraham's repentance was not real. Because in my view if one is justified they have turned to God for the answer. Which means they have repented.

 

[Corinth77777]

So lets look at this:

https://classic.net.bible.org/verse.php?book=1Jo&chapter=1&verse=8

This sound like as long as you are in the body you are not free from transgressing the law.

read the bottom notes: from above url

Sin causes Guilt and one would be lying to say you have fellowship and guilt at the same time.
If He is addressing the sin of not loving the brothern.. referring to the opposition who might believe it is no sin, the author basically would be saying you know it's sin by guilt. So don't believe that lie.

SO IT DOES SOUND LIKE THOSE WITH AN EXISTENCE OF GUILT AT THE PRESENT TIME HE HAS BEEN WRITING. BUT THE POINT ONE CAN TAKE FROM THERE IS THE ONE WITH GUILT IS MOST LIKELY A TRUE BELIEVER.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Tks for this one. My brother told me to look this up. And I responded with this question saying: if one is walking in the light in Christ do they have sin? Or is sin looked over?

So here's a thought . If one is cleansed from sin do they still have sin.

So what does that mean: to be cleansed from all sin. Does it mean you no longer have the Guilt that seperates you. It definitely does not mean you never sinned in the past. Does it mean you are still transgressing the Law if you are cleansed.

Or We have no transgressions of the law?

Does it mean being in the body we automatically transgress the law, Yet are forgiven while transgressing the law?

So my question: Is one transgressing the law if they are walking by the Spirit?

Do you believe that one cannot continually walk by the Spirit and remain in the teachings of Christ and at some point they will walk by the flesh.

JLB

And so we have the argument of being in the light with Jesus Christ, while doing works of darkness with the devil.

And it's argued by philosophy of one looking for ways to sin and be justified with Christ.

Col 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

The necessary questions not asked:

If we sin, are we sinning against God. If we sin, are we sinning with the devil. If we sin, are friends with God or the devil.

What does God say in the Bible? What does the philosopher argue by sophistry?

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:1-10

There is a dilemma here for me- Even if the author includes Himself. It can be as under those who calls oneself a believer. Like ( if we who are believers " say that we have no sin"

The message is to all believers naming Christ.

The separation is between the righteous walking in the light, and the unrighteous walking in darkness.

The rebuke is those walking in darkness with the devil, and saying they are in the light with Jesus Christ. (Philosophically speaking...)

Also here which is good- "if we say we have not sinned" this is in the past

Which is anytime any believer has sinned and repents not. The same as any unrepentant sinner on earth, though they are at least not shaming the naming Christ.

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

And the devils are at least trembling at the judgment of their works to come.

So that leaves one passage to think about- "if we say we have no sin"

When we sin, we are lying to ourselves that we are in the light with Christ, when sinning against God.

Yet if He is writing to those as the Hebrew letter,
those that are in danger of falling under a different teaching.

The teaching of being in the light of Christ, while doing works of darkness with the devil.

Then yes I can see why He would include Himself.

The apostles were not highminded in Christ, and so included themselves in the same warning against sinning with the flesh, and especially against while naming Christ as in the light.

Rom 11:20
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

1 John {2:1}
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
1 Cor 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
The doctrine of justification by Christ is to repent of all our sinning, and recieve His faith with grace to do His good and righteous deeds justified by God the Father.

The self-justifying gospel of sinful man is to believe we are saved by our own faith alone, and by grace not be judged with the world when doing the same unrighteous deeds.

Their doctrine requires the sophistry of arguing how to be in the light, while walking in darkness...

 

[RBDERRICK]

This sound like as long as you are in the body you are not free from transgressing the law.

Not just sounds like it but is true, for everyone transgressing the law with the body.

The lie sounds like no one on earth is free from transgressing the law, and so those in the body of Christ are still transgressors, but justified by Christ.

Gal 2:17
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

God condemns anyone saying transgressors are in His Son's body, which makes His own Son a sinful Head ministering sin to His own body.

It's the same lie in 1 John 1 of them that say they are in the light of Christ, while sinning in darkness. It makes the true God and Christ minister of light and darkness to His own body.

God forbid such vain sophistry of sinful trasngressors.

 

[Free]

The evil fruit is sin.

Then, no. Christians struggle with sin. True believers have been set free from the power and penalty of sin, but still need to walk in the Spirit so as not to give in to temptation to sin. That is what much of the NT addresses, including 1 John.

No, he is not.
Some accommodator of sin made that interpretation up to both keep his own sin, and to keep others in bondage to the devil.

He certainly is. That is why he tells those to whom he is writing to continually confess their sins. If all one had to do was confess once and that was it, then what John states makes no sense. Again, it's about understanding what John actually wrote, since he didn't write in English as you seem to think.

It is the word of God.
God's seed, and every other kind of seed can only bring forth after itself.
As apple seeds will never bring forth onions, so too, God's seed will never bring forth liars, adulterers, or thieves.

Of course, I agree. However, what you keep failing to accept, is that everything takes time to grow to maturity. Everything. As seed is a seed, not a plant or a tree.

By "sinner", I means someone who commits a sin.
All sinners are unbelievers.

Except this isn't true. John and the rest of the NT writers make it clear that all believers, including themselves, struggle with sin. All unbelievers are sinners, but not all sinners are unbelievers. The NT makes a very clear distinction between those whose lives are characterized by unrepentant, wilful, habitual sin, and those who are justified by grace who still struggle with sin as the seed of God in them continues to grow towards maturity.

True believers don't commit sin.
True believers have cast off the flesh, and walk in the Spirit.

That doesn’t mean true believers don’t sin.

If they need to confess a sin, the sin manifests that they are not born of God's seed.
One cannot have the Holy Spirit in them, and commit sin.

Nowhere is that stated on Scripture. John is absolutely clear that believers do struggle with sin, which is why they are to continually confess their sins for forgiveness.

There is no error in the fact that God's seed cannot bring forth liars, murderers, or thieves.

You need to be much more clear in what you are saying. To call someone a liar is to state something about their character, something that defines them, based on a repeated pattern of purposeful, unconfessed behaviour. But that is far different from someone, who in the heat of a moment, without thinking, responds with a lie but then later confesses. There is a significant difference.

As I said..."I will remind you of 1 John 3:10..."In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
All the unregenerated "practice" sin.
If they had ever actually "ceased from sin", your point might be worth considering, but they never quit sinning in the first place, so their entire life is "in sin".

Again, John is talking about those whose life is characterized by wilful, unrepentant, habitual sin. Look closer at what else John states:

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. (ESV)

Those who do not practice righteousness are not of God; they cannot do righteousness. True believers, however, can and do practice righteousness. What John is pointing out in 1 John is that while true believers practice righteousness, they still struggle with sin when tempted, and unbelievers' lives are not only characterized by sin, but they cannot do righteousness.

So believers are not "natural" ?
If one still needs to put off sin, or the "flesh", they are not believers.
They are the not yet regenerated.

The point is that in nature, such things are unnatural, and that is the basis as to why James says, "these things ought not to be so":

Jas 3:9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God.
Jas 3:10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. (ESV)

And, that is why Paul says the following:

Col 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
Col 3:6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming.
Col 3:7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them.
Col 3:8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. (ESV)

This is a meaningless command if these things were impossible for true believers. That is the message throughout the NT--to live holy and stop sinning against each other and God, precisely because it is inconsistent with being a follower of Christ. What it does not mean is that they aren't true followers of Christ.

1Co 3:1 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready,
1Co 3:3 for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?
1Co 3:4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?
1Co 3:5 What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each.
1Co 3:6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth.
1Co 3:7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth.
1Co 3:8 He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor.
1Co 3:9 For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building.
...
1Co 3:21 So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours,
1Co 3:22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours,
1Co 3:23 and you are Christ's, and Christ is God's. (ESV)

Notice first that Paul calls these people "brothers," "infants in Christ," and "God's field, God's building." He also states that they have "believed, as the Lord assigned to each" and that belong to Christ. Believers through and through. Yet, we then clearly notice that they are sinning, "as people of the flesh" and "behaving only in a human way," by being jealous and creating strife. The third thing we notice is that they were fed "with milk, not solid food," and were even then "not yet ready" for "solid food." That sure sounds like there needs to be growth towards maturity and that happens by putting away the fleshly struggles with sin. There are numerous such examples throughout the NT.

Also:

1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. (ESV)

Do you not think it is a sin to tolerate such sin? Paul certainly seems to think so.

There is even a direct example of Peter having sinned:

Gal 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
Gal 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.
Gal 2:13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?” (ESV)

 

[Free]

Believers don't struggle with sin.

They absolutely do, as the previous examples show. Any "believer" who claims to be without sin is self-deceived, doesn't have the truth, makes God a liar, and doesn't have his word in them (1 John 1:8, 10).

The struggle for those reborn of God, is temptation.
But we have plenty of help with that.
1 Cor 10:13 comes to mind, and James 4:7 too.

Of course, but believers still have to make the choice to follow the leading and conviction of the Holy Spirit or to give in to temptation.

How can you say that, and still deny we can stop sinning ?
The exhortations are to be obeyed by those with the Spirit of God in them.
Those without the Spirit will continue to walk after the "flesh".

Because that is what the NT plainly teaches. True believers are commanded to stop sinning and live according to the Spirit, which is utterly meaningless if they cannot sin.

Then you do disagree.
Believers walk in the light, but not in darkness.
Walking in darkness manifests unbelief.

No, I don't disagree. Your error is that you presume that walking in the light means believers don't and can't sin, which is precisely the error John addresses in 1 John 1:8-10.

Sinners walk in darkness.
They don't know God.
They have no fellowship with God.
THEY cannot say they have no sin.

Yes, that goes without saying.

God is the light.
There is no sin in God.

Of course. That goes without saying.

There can be no sin in those in God.

This is nowhere taught in Scripture.

That is the accommodators of sin's interpretation, not John's or the Holy Spirit's

No, it is based on what John actually wrote, which was in the Greek, not English.

If continued confession is necessary, a continued walk in darkness is also manifested.

Which contradicts your position, since, according to you, one a person repents they cannot sin.

You must have misread it.
He starts his scenarios with "IF".
IF we walk in darkness, these are the results...verses 6, 8, and 10.
IF we walk in the light, these are the results...verses 5, 7, and 9 to start it off.

You need to stop dodging and actually start addressing the points being made against your position. From the beginning of chapter and into chapter 2, John uses "we," "us," and "our," which can only mean that he is including himself and the other apostles, and every believer.

Wouldn't that be the truth Jesus said could free us from sinning, in John 8:32-34 ?

I've point out before that Jesus is saying the same thing as John--he is speaking about continual, wilful, unrepentant sin that characterizes a person. True believers are set free from being slaves to sin (the power of sin), but still struggle with sin as they continue to grow in holiness.

How come what you present doesn't free us from service to sin ?

But it does, if you have been reading what I actually wrote, you would see that. The issue is that you erroneously and unbiblically think once a person is truly saved, they immediately cease from sin. However, the biblical teaching is that while believers are freed from the power and penalty of sin, we still struggle with sin. What happens is that as we grow in Christ and strive for holiness with the help of the Spirit, we continually confess our sins, sinning less and less as we mature. We attain sinless perfection only at glorification.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Sin causes Guilt and one would be lying to say you have fellowship and guilt at the same time.

Which is not what 1 John 1 says. Jesus says it is a lie to say we have fellowship with Him in the light, while sinning in darkness at the same time.

Which is why the liars preach only against guilt, not against the sinning.

Matthew
{1:21} And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

They preach being saved from the guilt of sin, not from the sinning.

Ezek
{18:27} Again, when the wicked [man] turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. {18:28} Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

God says to cast away our transgressions, not our guilt while transgressing.

Preaching about guilt alone, and not about the sinning, is the conscience-searing doctrine of no more being guilty and condemned of sin, while sinning.

Which is why some also preach being past forgiven for all present and future sinning: they thereby sear the conscience to any convicting guilt from God for their sin.

Where there is past forgiveness, there is no present guilt. Where there is no condemnation, there is no sin.

Therefore, any present and future sinning, that is already forgiven and has no condemnation, there is no present nor future sin to forgive, nor to condemn.

By faith in their own doctrine alone, them that are sinning, can and do say they have no sin.

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

If we sin, and believe we are past forgiven and have no condemnation, then we can say we have no sin, nor have sinned, nor have any need of confessing our sinning to be forgiven, washed clean of sin, and uncondemned.

Sinful atheists never acknowledge any deed as 'sin against God', and so deny any need of forgiveness from any 'God'.

Sinful believers in God, can be seduced into the same lie about their own sinful deeds and works.

However, devils have more fear of God's judgment of their works, than the seduced believers and atheists alike.

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Tks for this one.

You are welcome.

My brother told me to look this up. And I responded with this question saying: if one is walking in the light in Christ do they have sin? Or is sin looked over?

If they are walking in the light, and 1 John 1:5 says "God is light", they cannot have sin in/on them.
That verse continues with..."and in him is no darkness at all."
Be aware, that darkness is sin..."The way of the wicked is as darkness:" (Pro 4:19)
If we are "in Him" there cannot be sin/darkness in/on us either.

So here's a thought . If one is cleansed from sin do they still have sin.

No, they do not.

So what does that mean: to be cleansed from all sin. Does it mean you no longer have the Guilt that seperates you.

It means the blood of Christ has washed away all your past sins.

It definitely does not mean you never sinned in the past. Does it mean you are still transgressing the Law if you are cleansed.

The past has been dealt with.
If we are walking in God (the light) we will not sin again.

Or We have no transgressions of the law?

If your repentance from sin was true, you won't sin again.

Does it mean being in the body we automatically transgress the law,

If by "body" you mean the vessel we walk around in, how can that be counted for sin ?
It is just the carrying case for the new creature, and the gift of the Holy Ghost after repentance and cleansing.
There is nothing inherently sinful about skin and bones.

Yet are forgiven while transgressing the law?

If you transgress, your repentance from sin has turned out to be a lie to God.
You had nothing to do with God, and won't, until you truly repent of sin.

So my question: Is one transgressing the law if they are walking by the Spirit?

They are not transgressing if they are walking in God.

Do you believe that one cannot continually walk by the Spirit and remain in the teachings of Christ and at some point they will walk by the flesh.

Nope.
I believe walking in the Spirit can be done all the time, without interruptions.
Perfect obedience to God is not only commanded by God, and Jesus Christ, but made possible by them too.
For instance, it is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Thanks be to God for His escapes !