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A few last questions for the Catholics

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Heidi

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Since I'm getting tired of the catholics changing or not believing scripture, then I only have a few last questions for them:

If God didn't want us to carve out images in the form of a man or a wom, how do you think he should have told us that?

If Jesus didn't want us to call anyone on earth 'father' particularly religious leaders, how do you think he should have told us that?

If Mary was a virgin all of her life, then how do you think God should have told us that?

And if Mary was sinless, how do you think God should have told us that? Since sinlessness implies divinity, then why do the Catholics think that God didn't tell us that Mary was a divine being?

No evasions, or attacks, please. Just simple and non-contradictory answers from Catholics.
 
Since I'm getting tired of the catholics changing or not believing scripture, then I only have a few last questions for them:

If God didn't want us to carve out images in the form of a man or a wom, how do you think he should have told us that?
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God never said that was wrong. God in fact ordered the making of some images(the bronze serpent, ark of the covenant cherubim). What God did not want was for us to worship images. If you have a taken a picture of someone you have "carved out images in the form of a man or a woman".

If Jesus didn't want us to call anyone on earth 'father' particularly religious leaders, how do you think he should have told us that?
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Again you take Jesus' word and isolate them from the rest of the Bible. What of Acts 7:2 or Romans 9:10? And did not Jesus also tell us not to call any man on earth rabbi(teacher)? Do you call someone a doctor(doctorate)?

If Mary was a virgin all of her life, then how do you think God should have told us that
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God would tell us through the Church :)

And if Mary was sinless, how do you think God should have told us that? Since sinlessness implies divinity, then why do the Catholics think that God didn't tell us that Mary was a divine being?
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What? Sinlessness does not imply divinity! Adam and Eve were sinless at one point but they were not divine for that time. The angels are sinless yet they are not divine.
 
aj830 said:
What? Sinlessness does not imply divinity! Adam and Eve were sinless at one point but they were not divine for that time. The angels are sinless yet they are not divine.
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You didn't answer my questions: If God didn't want us to make images of anything on earth or in heaven, how should he have told us that? :-? It's not a hard question...unless the answer incriminates you. Once again, the truth is always simple and straightforward. It's lies that need evasion.

So if God would tell you through the church, then what do you need the bible for? The bible tells us that Mary was not a virgin her whole life. The catholic church tells us that she was. So why do you think the church and the bible contradict each other?
 
You didn't answer my questions: If God didn't want us to make images of anything on earth or in heaven, how should he have told us that? It's not a hard question...unless the answer incriminates you. Once again, the truth is always simple and straightforward. It's lies that need evasion.
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If God wanted to tell us he would tell us through Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture.
 
aj830 said:
If God wanted to tell us he would tell us through Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture.
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The problem is that there is a discrepancy between what the bible says and what the tradition of the Catholic church says. So then what are Christians supposed to do? Believe God's word, or the word of the pope? Your answer will show who you worship. The pope or God. So which is it? :o
 
Heidi said:
Since sinlessness implies divinity....
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I think this statement is rather obviously false - Adam and Eve didn't have to sin (I believe). If they had no sinned, would that have made them divine. I don't think so.
 
There is no discrepancy between the Bible and the Church. So your one choice or the other is irreleevent. You have yet to show one contradiction in all your posts. There is a discrepancy between your theology and the Bible, however. You just said sinlessness implies divinity, this is obviously wrong. You subscribe to sola scriptura, a self defeating doctrine of men.
 
Sinlessness - to me this term is stating that one would be unable to sin.

If someone did not have sin - such as Adam prior to him sinning, he would be described as "sinless".

So, doesn't sinlessness imply someone who is not only without sin, but also NOT ABLE to sin?

Therefore, to me it seems that sinlessness does in fact imply diety - since the only one who is UNABLE to sin is God.
 
aLoneVoice said:
Sinlessness - to me this term is stating that one would be unable to sin.

If someone did not have sin - such as Adam prior to him sinning, he would be described as "sinless".

So, doesn't sinlessness imply someone who is not only without sin, but also NOT ABLE to sin?

Therefore, to me it seems that sinlessness does in fact imply diety - since the only one who is UNABLE to sin is God.
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Well, since you put it that way, than I would say Mary didn't possess "sinlessness". And a lot of people would debate whether Jesus was "sinlessness" in that definition, as well.

I would say He COULD not sin, but many would disagree with that.

Regards
 
francisdesales said:
Well, since you put it that way, than I would say Mary didn't possess "sinlessness". And a lot of people would debate whether Jesus was "sinlessness" in that definition, as well.

I would say He COULD not sin, but many would disagree with that.

Regards
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Perhaps we have found the first thing that we agree on - well maybe not the first.... but I think you know what I mean.

I agree - Jesus COULD NOT sin.
 
Drew said:
I think this statement is rather obviously false - Adam and Eve didn't have to sin (I believe). If they had no sinned, would that have made them divine. I don't think so.
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So if Adam and Eve were sinless, then why did they succumb to temptation when Jesus didn't? :o
 
francisdesales said:
Well, since you put it that way, than I would say Mary didn't possess "sinlessness". And a lot of people would debate whether Jesus was "sinlessness" in that definition, as well.

I would say He COULD not sin, but many would disagree with that.

Regards
Click to expand...

And alot of people disagree with Jesus when he says he's the only way to God. So who do you think Christians believe? Jesus or the opinions of those who disagree with Jesus? Or don't you know? :o
 
aLoneVoice said:
Sinlessness - to me this term is stating that one would be unable to sin.

If someone did not have sin - such as Adam prior to him sinning, he would be described as "sinless".

So, doesn't sinlessness imply someone who is not only without sin, but also NOT ABLE to sin?

Therefore, to me it seems that sinlessness does in fact imply diety - since the only one who is UNABLE to sin is God.
Click to expand...

Jesus was tempted to sin. But because the Father lived in him, he could overcome temptation whereas Adam could not.

And Mary was thankful that she needed a savior so she indeed admitted she needed one. Therefore, there is nowhere in the bible that says that Mary was sinless. The only reason the Catholics say she is is because they believe everything the pope says, even when he blatantly disagrees with scripture. That is a cult.
 
Heidi said:
Jesus was tempted to sin. But because the Father lived in him, he could overcome temptation whereas Adam could not.
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Yes - Jesus was tempted, but being fully God - Jesus could NOT sin. However, in his humanity, Jesus provided for us an example as to how we could overcome the temptations of sin.
 
aLoneVoice said:
Yes - Jesus was tempted, but being fully God - Jesus could NOT sin. However, in his humanity, Jesus provided for us an example as to how we could overcome the temptations of sin.
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God's in control of what sins he will take from us and which ones he will leave as in the case of the thorn in Paul's flesh. Notice that paul asked God to take it away, instead of relying on his own effort. And God said "no" so that paul would not become conceited.

So yes, only Jesus can take away sins. But God is the one who decides how much each of us can bear and the measure of faith given to each of us. :)
 
Heidi said:
God's in control of what sins he will take from us and which ones he will leave as in the case of the thorn in Paul's flesh. Notice that paul asked God to take it away, instead of relying on his own effort. And God said "no" so that paul would not become conceited.

So yes, only Jesus can take away sins. But God is the one who decides how much each of us can bear and the measure of faith given to each of us. :)
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Perhaps best suited for a new thread, but is Paul's reference to a 'thorn in the flesh' referring to "sin"?
 
aLoneVoice said:
Perhaps best suited for a new thread, but is Paul's reference to a 'thorn in the flesh' referring to "sin"?
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Many believe this thorn in the flesh to be his blindness or demon oppression...
I believe the Latter
 
jgredline said:
Many believe this thorn in the flesh to be his blindness or demon oppression...
I believe the Latter
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While I can't venture a guest on what it was - I do not believe that it was 'sin' that he was referring to. I believe the lesson is in not what it was but how Paul handled it.
 
aLoneVoice said:
While I can't venture a guest on what it was - I do not believe that it was 'sin' that he was referring to. I believe the lesson is in not what it was but how Paul handled it.
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Exactly right !!
 
aLoneVoice said:
Yes - Jesus was tempted, but being fully God - Jesus could NOT sin. However, in his humanity, Jesus provided for us an example as to how we could overcome the temptations of sin.
Click to expand...
Exactly Right! :smt023
 
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