Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?
You can't seperate lk 9:27 from vs 26 and previous verses.
24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?
26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels.
27 "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."
So you think that verse 24-27 are all about Jesus' physical return to earth.
Sorry, Verse 27 says what it says. You are trying to force fit your doctrine into this.
This is the point I made earlier, when i quoted John 21:23.
You try to create a whole doctrine around something Jesus said, that you misunderstand.
21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, "But Lord, what about this man?" 22 Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me." 23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die.
Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?" J
ohn 21:21-23
The verses after verse 27, show you the context.
The disciples were show the kingdom of God on the mount of transfiguration.
as verse 27 says - "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death
till they see the kingdom of God."
Stop trying to add to God's word!
JLB
JLB, here is my question from my previous post:
Since the disciples only asked questions about Jerusalems destruction in 70ad and not about the "end of the age", and since the context of Jesus' discourse was also only about Jerusalems destruction in 70ad and not the "end of the age", why does Jesus mention the AOD in verse 14 and his "coming in the clouds" in verse 26; both of which YOU CLAIM are future events which will yet happen in the "end of the age"?
Now I will show how your response was completely inadequate in answering my question.
This will be followed with a question which I fully expect you to answer.
You said: "Thinking that Jesus came already is deception."
Answer: thinking that "coming in the clouds" in Math.34:30 refers to his bodily return is deception.
We have already been over this. Jesus is quoting and combining Dan.7:13, ps.110:1, Isa.19:1 ect. to describe his exaltation and vindication as rightful King as well as his judgment decreed upon Jerusalem.
You said: "Thinking the end of the age has come is entertaining deception."
Answer: thinking that the "end of the age" in Math.24:3 refers to the end of the present "church age" is entertaining deception.
We have been over this also.
Age is defined as: a period of time distinguished from others by it's special characteristics (Websters)
Anyone can see that the "Mosiac system" was a "special characteristic" (i.e. sacrifices, priesthood, feasts etc.) which distinguished it's FUNCTIONING time period from others.
The time of the Mosiac system while it functioned was an AGE! (According to the meaning of "age")
The "functioning" of it's "special characteristics" which distinguished it from all other "systems" ended (ceased) in 70ad.
(It was fulfilled and abolished at the cross in 30ad, but it ceased to "function" in 70ad at the end of "that age" (it's age).
Furthermore:
To believe that the words "....you shall see the AOD..." was not directed at the people to whom it was spoken (first century disciples) but to a generation 2000 years in the future
is to "entertain deception"
To believe the words "this generation" did not refer to the then present first century generation but rather to a generation 2000 years in the future is to entertain deception.
To believe that "this generation" means more than one generation is to entertain deception.
To believe the word "all" and "all these things" does not actually mean "all these things" is to entertain deception.
Etc etc etc.....
My point still stands JLB:
In both Mark and Luke Jesus was not asked about the "end of the age" but ONLY about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad!
There was no need to mention the AOD or his "coming in the clouds" if he was only
answering questions about Jerusalems destruction!
The conclusion is that the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" were NECESSARY for Jesus to mention in order to answer his disciples questions regarding Jerusalems destruction.
Therefore, the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" are CONNECTED with Jerusalems destruction in 70ad and "that generation".
Therefore, the "destruction of Jerusalem" the "end of the age" and "his coming" all speak of the same thing at the same time.... Jerusalem's destruction marked the end of that age which was proof that Jesus had been vindicated as rightful King and had judged Jerusalem as rightful judge!
So here is my question to you JLB:
Since Jesus was asked by his disciples in Mark 13 when Jerusalem would be destroyed and what would be the sign that it was about to happen, why would Jesus mention SEEING the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?