About how many here hold some preterism views?

[Deborah13]

there is about to be a third temple built.

A third temple can be built but who will make it God's Holy Temple??

There is only One who can make anything holy. The Holy One of Israel.

If He does not make it holy, then it will not be holy.


JLB

So God destroyed the last temple and Jesus became the new Temple built in three days, why would God build another temple? Is He going back to living behind the veil?

 

[JLB]

there is about to be a third temple built.

A third temple can be built but who will make it God's Holy Temple??

There is only One who can make anything holy. The Holy One of Israel.

If He does not make it holy, then it will not be holy.


JLB

So God destroyed the last temple and Jesus became the new Temple built in three days, why would God build another temple? Is He going back to living behind the veil?

History teaches us that the Romans destroyed the Temple in 70 AD.

Do you have scripture that shows God destroyed the Temple in 70 AD?

I never said God was going to build another temple.

I said the Jews are going to build the third Temple.


JLB

 

[endtimesdeut32/70AD]

Lk 9: 27 seem to rephrase matt 23:36; 24:34 and like verses. Its the same message stated in a different way. There are others that accomplish the same idea and emphasis.

Re: God destroying the temple: Isaiah 29:1-4 is one; Heb 10:9 is another. Isaiah 61:2,3; talks of giving beauty of the lives of the believers [the new temple] for the ashes of the old in cintext and associatiin with his prophecied vengeance. There are many others which allude to, imply and refer to it. Is 66:1-10

 

[JLB]

Lk 9: 27 seem to rephrase matt 23:36; 24:34 and like verses. Its the same message stated in a different way. There are others that accomplish the same idea and emphasis.

23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"


JLB

 

[endtimesdeut32/70AD]

Lk 9: 27 seem to rephrase matt 23:36; 24:34 and like verses. Its the same message stated in a different way. There are others that accomplish the same idea and emphasis.

23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"


JLB

Yes, that's another supporting verse and message. Peter was foretold to follow jesus example in his death. John is the only original disciple who remained alive through the war and killings against the saints by Nero/Judaism (matt 23:34, 24:9; Dan 7:21,25) to witness/experience the events of 69+.

John would have been among the 'we who remain' that Paul referred to.

When writing corinthians, Paul mentioned rhat some of the original 500 witnesses to the resurrected Jesus had 'fallen asleep' but that there were others who had remained (alive) to that day. Some would not taste death ( like John) as Lk 9:27 affirms till they witnessed/ knew/ experinced the kingdom.

 

[reba]

Who took the Israelites captive God or Neb?

 

[JLB]

Lk 9: 27 seem to rephrase matt 23:36; 24:34 and like verses. Its the same message stated in a different way. There are others that accomplish the same idea and emphasis.

23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"


JLB

Yes, that's another supporting verse and message. Peter was foretold to follow jesus example in his death. John is the only original disciple who remained alive through the war and killings against the saints by Nero/Judaism (matt 23:34, 24:9; Dan 7:21,25) to witness/experience the events of 69+.

John would have been among the 'we who remain' that Paul referred to.

When writing corinthians, Paul mentioned rhat some of the original 500 witnesses to the resurrected Jesus had 'fallen asleep' but that there were others who had remained (alive) to that day. Some would not taste death ( like John) as Lk 9:27 affirms till they witnessed/ knew/ experinced the kingdom.

Like the other who were standing there that day, you misunderstand what was said, and try to apply the words to something that was not said.

"But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."

Many perceived the kingdom of God after they were born again.

Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John3:3



JLB

 

[endtimesdeut32/70AD]

Luke 9:26 sets the context for vs 27.

Checking the context should be an immediate action for inductive and objectve study.

Take care.

 

[JLB]

Luke 9:26 sets the context for vs 27.

Checking the context should be an immediate action for inductive and objectve study.

Take care.

Yes, and verse 28-35, give us the answer to what Jesus was referring to, The Kingdom of God was witnessed by those who were standing there.

28 Now it came to pass, about eight days after these sayings, that He took Peter, John, and James and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 As He prayed, the appearance of His face was altered, and His robe became white and glistening. 30 And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 But Peter and those with him were heavy with sleep; and when they were fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men who stood with Him. 33 Then it happened, as they were parting from Him, that Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah"--not knowing what he said. 34 While he was saying this, a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were fearful as they entered the cloud. 35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!" Luke 9:28-35

They got to witness the glory of the kingdom of God.


JLB

 

[endtimesdeut32/70AD]

Luke 9:26 sets the context for vs 27.

Checking the context should be an immediate action for inductive and objectve study.

Take care.

Yes, and verse 28-35, give us the answer to what Jesus was referring to, The Kingdom of God was witnessed by those who were standing there.

28 Now it came to pass, about eight days after these sayings, that He took Peter, John, and James and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 As He prayed, the appearance of His face was altered, and His robe became white and glistening. 30 And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 But Peter and those with him were heavy with sleep; and when they were fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men who stood with Him. 33 Then it happened, as they were parting from Him, that Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah"--not knowing what he said. 34 While he was saying this, a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were fearful as they entered the cloud. 35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!" Luke 9:28-35

They got to witness the glory of the kingdom of God.
JLB

Were agreed that the kingdom of God is a present tense reality; and there is an association of belief in Christ as the son of supernatural living God/life-maker [Luke 9:18-20; Matt 16:13-19; Mark 8:27-31] with being born again and entering the kingdom,[John 3]

but what do these verses have to do with something 8 days later?

26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Did some of them taste death between the time of his saying these things and the time of the transfiguration 6-8 days later?

If not, why would he say these things?

Reasonably, they associate the coming of Jesus with the time of the lives of some of those who were standing there.

Perhaps the transfiguration confirmed and rewarded their faith and confession of Christ being the son of the living God; that there were living saints and a real supernatural world after their confession.

In all 3 passages, the mention of his coming with the angels is directly before his mention that some of them would see him coming in his kingdom.

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 16:28. “Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

This would thus also include Matt 25's discourse as referring to same events in the lives of some of those standing there.
Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Mark 9:1. And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”

Luke 9:26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.
Luke 9:27. “But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”

See again Matt 23:36:24:34; Mark 13:10; Luke 11:50,51 and 21:32

The kingdom of God/Heaven is within believers.

Rev 21:3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.

Thanks again for the discussion and exposure.

 

[Hope of glory]

JLB, stop avoiding the question. Answer it please, you are making me repeat myself.

Here it is again:

You say in Math.24 "this generation" (v34) refers to 1 single generation (the generation to see the AOD and Jesus coming in the clouds), and "all these things" in verse 34 refers to both the AOD and Jesus coming in the clouds.

But, in Luke 21 you say "this generation" (v32) refers to "multiple generations" (the generation to see the destruction of Jerusalem and the generation to see Jesus coming in the clouds), and the word "all" in verse 32 refers to the destruction of Jerusalem but not to Jesus' coming in the clouds.

It seems as though you are not being consistent in your interptetation with the words "this generation" (meaning singular and multiple generations), and the word "all" (meaning "all" and "some").

I ask you this one question regarding what I have posted and your interpretation "inconsistencies":

Question:
Why do interpret "this generation" in Math.24:34 as a "single" (one) generation, but not in Luke 21:32, in which you say "this generation" means "multiple" or more than one generation?

If you want me to answer a question, then ask a question, don't form some question then put your own answer in place and say that is what I said.

Ask one question, if you want me to respond.


JLB

JLB, Question:

Are verses 20 and 27 of Luke 21 both included in the "ALL" of verse 32 when Jesus says, "this generation shall not pass away until ALL be fulfilled"? Yes or No

The generation that sees the signs of the sun, moon and stars, will see the son of Man coming in the clouds.

Luke 21 has language that pertains to 70 AD, but as the scripture shows, the the sign of the sun, moon and stars is separated by the time-frame called the times of the Gentiles.

These scriptural signs are both common in Luke 21 and Matthew 24, and both apply to those who see these signs -

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Luke 21:25-27

and -


29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31
As you can see from both Matthew and Luke, the signs of the sun,moon and stars are seen by all the tribes of the earth and all the tribes of the earth that see these signs, will witness jesus Christ coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

What makes Luke unique is the phrase times of the Gentiles.

What makes Matthew unique is the phrase Abomination of Desolation.

JLB

JLB, you again did not answer my question, so here it is again.

Are verses 20 and 27 of Luke 21 both included in the "ALL" of verse 32 when Jesus says, "this generation shall not pass away until ALL be fulfilled"? Yes or No

Simply give a YES or NO answer, thanks.

 

[JLB]

but what do these verses have to do with something 8 days later?

28 Now it came to pass, about eight days after these sayings, that He took Peter, John, and James and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 As He prayed, the appearance of His face was altered, and His robe became white and glistening. 30 And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 But Peter and those with him were heavy with sleep; and when they were fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men who stood with Him. 33 Then it happened, as they were parting from Him, that Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah"--not knowing what he said. 34 While he was saying this, a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were fearful as they entered the cloud. 35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!" Luke 9:28-35

That was the fulfillment of Jesus words to them.


"But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."


JLB

 

[JLB]

Are verses 20 and 27 of Luke 21 both included in the "ALL" of verse 32 when Jesus says, "this generation shall not pass away until ALL be fulfilled"? Yes or No

Verse 20 - No.

Verse 27 - Yes.

You chose two verses that are on either side of an event that is two thousand years long, called the times of the Gentiles.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Are verses 20 and 27 of Luke 21 both included in the "ALL" of verse 32 when Jesus says, "this generation shall not pass away until ALL be fulfilled"? Yes or No

Verse 20 - No.

Verse 27 - Yes.

You chose two verses that are on either side of an event that is two thousand years long, called the times of the Gentiles.


JLB

I don't have an answer for this question.

How do you know we are still in the "time of the Gentiles"?

I am still unsettled on this. What are the scriptures, please? Thanks

 

[JLB]

Are verses 20 and 27 of Luke 21 both included in the "ALL" of verse 32 when Jesus says, "this generation shall not pass away until ALL be fulfilled"? Yes or No

Verse 20 - No.

Verse 27 - Yes.

You chose two verses that are on either side of an event that is two thousand years long, called the times of the Gentiles.


JLB

I don't have an answer for this question.

How do you know we are still in the "time of the Gentiles"?

I am still unsettled on this. What are the scriptures, please? Thanks

How do you know we are not?

And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:24

June, 1967 The Six-Day War. Jerusalem is liberated from Jordanian control and for the first time in nearly two thousand years the Jews are in complete control of Jerusalem.

Is Jerusalem still trampled by Gentiles today?

JLB

 

[Deborah13]

How do you know we are not?

I don't that is why I said, "I don't have an answer for this question."

Once you gave me the scripture then I could look up some other commentators thoughts. But I still don't know and neither do they.
Here is the quote from Matthew Henry. Everything before v24 they attribute to 70 AD but v24?

VIII. Here is one word of prediction that looks further than the destruction of the Jewish nation, which is not easily understood; we have it in Luke 21:24: Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, till the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 1. Some understand it of what is past; so Dr. Hammond. The Gentiles, who have conquered Jerusalem, shall keep possession of it, and it shall be purely Gentile, till the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled, till a great part of the Gentile world shall have become Christian, and then after Jerusalem shall have been rebuilt by Adrian the emperor, with an exclusion of all the Jews from it, many of the Jews shall turn Christians, shall join with the Gentile Christians, to set up a church in Jerusalem, which shall flourish there for a long time. 2. Others understand it of what is yet to come; so Dr. Whitby. Jerusalem shall be possessed by the Gentiles, of one sort or other, for the most part, till the time come when the nations that yet remain infidels shall embrace the Christian faith, when the kingdoms of this world shall become Christ’s kingdoms, and then all the Jews shall be converted. Jerusalem shall be inhabited by them, and neither they nor their city any longer trodden down by the Gentiles. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021:24&version=NASB

JLB, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I find that to be unfruitful every time. I rather discuss and share.
That's why I had asked you how a temple built by unbelievers could be Holy. I wanted your point of view and hoping that might strike a cord with you as well.
I can't see where God ever talks about changing the covenant back to the blood of lambs and goats , wouldn't that be what Hebrews warns the Jews about, trampling on the blood of Jesus?
For me to believe that another temple will be made Holy by God and for me to believe that there will be a return to animals sacrifices by the will of God, I would have to see something very clear in scripture. If there is one thing God has made clear are His covenant and who they are with.

 

[jasoncran]

uhm to say the Jerusalem is controlled by isreal alone means has NO clue about the power of the U.N. to sway isreal from doing what they would like to do.

 

[JLB]

That's why I had asked you how a temple built by unbelievers could be Holy. I wanted your point of view and hoping that might strike a cord with you as well.

No Ma'am, that is not what you asked -

Here is the question you asked -

So God destroyed the last temple and Jesus became the new Temple built in three days, why would God build another temple? Is He going back to living behind the veil?

Here is my answer -

History teaches us that the Romans destroyed the Temple in 70 AD.

Do you have scripture that shows God destroyed the Temple in 70 AD?

I never said God was going to build another temple.

I said the Jews are going to build the third Temple.

I can't see where God ever talks about changing the covenant back to the blood of lambs and goats , wouldn't that be what Hebrews warns the Jews about, trampling on the blood of Jesus?

The covenant we Have with God, through Jesus Christ our Lord is everlasting -

Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Hebrews 13:20

Notice, this is not a seven year covenant.


The reason the Jews want to build another temple is, they believe if they build it He [Messiah] will come.

Here is the link to their website, so you can search and find out the answers to all the questions you have about this subject yourself.

http://www.templeinstitute.org/

They had a promotional ad that stated IF WE BUILD IT HE WILL COME.

Meaning the Messiah would come.

That is what Judaism teaches, that the messiah will come through the eastern gate.The scriptures teach it will be a false messiah who goes to the temple of God, and proclaims himself as God, and ends up being destroyed by the "brightness" of Jesus coming.

The scripture also teach that God Himself will send them strong delusion that they would believe a lie!


11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

Why would God allow this temple to be built?

To send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie!

The Lawless one is the person of this delusion.

The Temple is the place of this delusion.

The lying signs and wonders are the things of this delusion.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

No Ma'am, that is not what you asked -

Here is the question you asked -

I don't have an answer for this question.

How do you know we are still in the "time of the Gentiles"?

I am still unsettled on this. What are the scriptures, please? Thanks POST 428 and 430

So God destroyed the last temple and Jesus became the new Temple built in three days, why would God build another temple? Is He going back to living behind the veil?

This question was asked in POST 415

I can't see where God ever talks about changing the covenant back to the blood of lambs and goats , wouldn't that be what Hebrews warns the Jews about, trampling on the blood of Jesus?

Then I ask this in POST 430

I was taught 'dispensational' even took a class many years ago. So I have a little background in the thought, but poor memory. And we were not taught some of the things I have learned in the last months. I was very young then and a baby Christian. I read but I didn't no what some of it meant so I just really only got part of it.

Thanks for answering my questions.

 

[Hope of glory]

Are verses 20 and 27 of Luke 21 both included in the "ALL" of verse 32 when Jesus says, "this generation shall not pass away until ALL be fulfilled"? Yes or No

Verse 20 - No.

Verse 27 - Yes.

You chose two verses that are on either side of an event that is two thousand years long, called the times of the Gentiles.


JLB

That's funny brother! You have made another statement which contradicts Jesus' words. Verse 24 (the times of the Gentiles) is also included in the "all" that Jesus said would be fulfilled within that generation. The statement that the "times of the Gentiles" is "2000 years long" is not biblical, just your opinion. (I will come back to this, but first have another question).

Question: Do Jesus' words "this generation" refer to a single (one) generation? YES or NO