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Paul said they are not all Israel, that are of Israel. (Rom 9:6) His point is, the Israel of God is not the same as simply being of fleshly descent from Israel. There is a distinction. In Romans 9, 10, 11, he further explains. I know it is tough to understand, but he expected his first century readers to understand it. Here is the way I see it. Paul knew that all of BELIEVING Israel, in his own day, -- the apostles, added to 3000 on the day of Pentecost, plus the thousands of other Israelites who had believed, plus himself --were the Israel of God. But there were many more among the ethnic Israel that had NOT YET believed, but WOULD be saved, because God foreknew them. All of them would be saved before the end of the age. (the Mosaic age of Temple sacrifices and ritual.) The unbelieving Israelites would be destroyed with their city and temple. But all the TRUE Israelites would be saved, even if they had not, at the time of Paul's letter, believed in Christ. There was still a remnant that would come to faith by hearing Paul and other preachers BEFORE the end of the age, AD 70. (If, as some say, all the Israelites would be saved, thousands of years into Paul's future, at once, in the nation of Israel, presumably, what about the millions of them who have died without Christ in the intervening centuries? We're they saved? If "all Israel" meant every ethnic Jew, ever, then Paul's message would make no sense at all.)Greetings
Has anyone figured out who the "All Israel Will Be Saved" verse from the Preterist point of view? Which seems to be the only view that makes sense.
Obviously, not all Jews are saved or will be. But your explanation begs a question: what does Paul mean by "until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in"? It seems like it means that until the bulk of gentile elect are saved, the partial hardening of Israel will continue, which would mean that the partial hardening is still in effect, since it appears that only a remnant is being saved. And the context is contrasting Israel as a nation against the gentiles, which would mean that "all Israel will be saved" means the whole nation. I'm trying to understand the context. What is your take on Paul's phrase "the fullness of the Gentiles"?Paul said they are not all Israel, that are of Israel. (Rom 9:6) His point is, the Israel of God is not the same as simply being of fleshly descent from Israel. There is a distinction. In Romans 9, 10, 11, he further explains. I know it is tough to understand, but he expected his first century readers to understand it. Here is the way I see it. Paul knew that all of BELIEVING Israel, in his own day, -- the apostles, added to 3000 on the day of Pentecost, plus the thousands of other Israelites who had believed, plus himself --were the Israel of God. But there were many more among the ethnic Israel that had NOT YET believed, but WOULD be saved, because God foreknew them. All of them would be saved before the end of the age. (the Mosaic age of Temple sacrifices and ritual.) The unbelieving Israelites would be destroyed with their city and temple. But all the TRUE Israelites would be saved, even if they had not, at the time of Paul's letter, believed in Christ. There was still a remnant that would come to faith by hearing Paul and other preachers BEFORE the end of the age, AD 70. (If, as some say, all the Israelites would be saved, thousands of years into Paul's future, at once, in the nation of Israel, presumably, what about the millions of them who have died without Christ in the intervening centuries? We're they saved? If "all Israel" meant every ethnic Jew, ever, then Paul's message would make no sense at all.)
The fullness of the Gentiles makes up all of Israel that will be saved. As Ephraim mixed himself up with other nations that was a foreshadowing of the Gentiles being grafted into Israel meaning all of Israel will be saved that have faith in God as being part of the covenant God made with Abraham, Genesis 12:1-3; 48:17-19; Hosea 7:8. Jesus told the Apostles to proclaim the Gospel first in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria and then to the ends of the world, Acts 1:8; 8:14-17, Samaria is the fulfillment of the restoration of Israel as both Jew and Gentiles both dwelt there, Galatians 3:28, 29.Obviously, not all Jews are saved or will be. But your explanation begs a question: what does Paul mean by "until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in"? It seems like it means that until the bulk of gentile elect are saved, the partial hardening of Israel will continue, which would mean that the partial hardening is still in effect, since it appears that only a remnant is being saved. And the context is contrasting Israel as a nation against the gentiles, which would mean that "all Israel will be saved" means the whole nation. I'm trying to understand the context. What is your take on Paul's phrase "the fullness of the Gentiles"?
Your initial statement doesn't make sense. Are you saying that gentile believers are Israel now? And if so, why is Paul making a distinction between them? Why does he say "partial hardening" to Israel? Notice v. 12:The fullness of the Gentiles makes up all of Israel that will be saved. As Ephraim mixed himself up with other nations that was a foreshadowing of the Gentiles being grafted into Israel meaning all of Israel will be saved that have faith in God as being part of the covenant God made with Abraham, Genesis 12:1-3; 48:17-19; Hosea 7:8. Jesus told the Apostles to proclaim the Gospel first in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria and then to the ends of the world, Acts 1:8; 8:14-17, Samaria is the fulfillment of the restoration of Israel as both Jew and Gentiles both dwelt there, Galatians 3:28, 29.
I'm saying that because of the fall of Israel (not all of Israel) that salvation has come to the Gentiles to provoke the unfaithful Israelites to jealousy. God has always saved a faithful remnant of the tribes of Israel that repented of their worship of Baal, but yet many have to this day never repented.Your initial statement doesn't make sense. Are you saying that gentile believers are Israel now?
It still begs the question why is Paul making a distinction between Gentiles and Israel?I'm saying that because of the fall of Israel (not all of Israel) that salvation has come to the Gentiles to provoke the unfaithful Israelites to jealousy. God has always saved a faithful remnant of the tribes of Israel that repented of their worship of Baal, but yet many have to this day never repented.
It's all by God's grace through faith, not by works, that saves those who believe and are Baptized into the Baptism of Christ receiving the Holy Spirit and are obedient to His commands.
It's because of the fall of Israel that salvation has come to the Gentiles as we are graphed into the branch of Israel as now there is neither Jew or Gentile as we are all one body of Christ with He being the head of the body, Romans Chapter 11; Galatians Chapter 3.
First one must understand whom Israel isGreetings
Has anyone figured out who the "All Israel Will Be Saved" verse from the Preterist point of view? Which seems to be the only view that makes sense.
Obviously all of Israel are the physical progeny of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, their offspring, loved for the sake of their fathers, even though they "are" enemies of the Gospel. They were made enemies for our sake
That would be all of their descendants, past, present, future, saved
Again , who is Israel ?IMO the key to understanding is that Paul says, "AND SO all Israel will be saved"--not just "all Israel shall be saved." The key is in understanding the "AND SO".
Limbs are cut off. If Joe develops gangrene or cancer, we may cut off one of Joe's limbs and say that this will save Joe. Well...yes...but his limb was Joe, too, and we are not saving that limb. Yet at the same time, if we switch our manner of speaking, to say that we are saving all of Joe by cutting off his limb is not incorrect, either. We lose the leg, but we save Joe.
King James Bible And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. (Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. (Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it. (Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. (Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. (Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. (Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. |
EzekielThe Kingdom will be restored to Israel to fulfill Gods promises.
Genesis 25:9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,Obviously all of Israel are the physical progeny of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, their offspring, loved for the sake of their fathers, even though they "are" enemies of the Gospel. They were made enemies for our sake
That would be all of their descendants, past, present, future, saved
According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
https://tinyurl.com/y6ryw6hf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population
Going, going, going--- gone
According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
<>Jewish population by country - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org