Amil Interpretation of Zech 14?

[Cyberseeker]

Behold, the day of the LORD is coming …
… I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem …
… Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations …
… Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.
(Zech 14:1-5 abridged)

Amill supporters identify the 'day of the Lord' as being the destruction of this earth at his coming. They usually quote 2 Peter 3:10. Alright then, above is Zechariahs version of the same event. Problem is, Zech doesn’t teach the final destruction of the world. On the contrary, he goes on to teach what looks like a millennial reign on earth.

… And the LORD shall be King over all the earth …
… And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations
which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King,
the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
(Zech 14:9-16 abridged)

So my question is this. What is the amillennial Interpretation of Zech 14 and how do they reconcile it to their doctrine?

PS Can we keep this thread to the opening post please? I only want to know how Amils read O.T. refs concerning the 'Day of the Lord.'

Cyberseeker

 

[Bubba]

Cyberseeker,
First of all, I believe that all of the Old Testament Scripture was fulfilled in Christ’s first coming and the New Testament Church, except for a new earth and heaven and final judgment. When one looks at how James in Acts 15:13-17 uses the interpretation of Amos 9:11-12 as fulfilled by the inclusion of the Gentiles as God’s people (the Church), you would think that one would readily discern that O.T. prophecies of this sort are fulfilled by Jesus (prophecy of the throne of David) and the Church (the Temple, new Jerusalem, spiritual Israel), but to much literalization keeps this from happening.

Some thoughts to consider from a article by Wayne Jackson:
1. "How would one determine that this prophecy has to do with a “millennial reign†of Christ upon the earth? Did Jesus, during his earthly ministry, so interpret it? Did any inspired New Testament writer quote from Zechariah 14, giving it a “dispensational†interpretation? The answer is, “No.†There is no evidence at all that would point this prophecy in the direction of premillennialism.
Actually, New Testament writers repeatedly stress that the prophetic thrust of the Old Testament was concerning the salvation of grace (1 Pet. 1:10-11) which burst into bloom with the dawning of the gospel dispensation. Peter affirmed that “all the prophets from Samuel and them that followed after, as many as have spoken, they also told of these days†(Acts 3:24). The “these days†were the days of the Christian age. The dispensational view of Zechariah 14 is arbitrary and without evidential proof.
2. A fundamental problem with premillennial theology is its inability to discern the difference between the literal and figurative elements of the Scriptures. Much of the prophecy of Old Testament literature is couched in figurative jargon, and those who do not recognize this principle are doomed to failure in their interpretation of the text. In his classic book, Biblical Hermeneutics, Professor Milton Terry wrote: “A thorough interpretation of the prophetic portions of the holy Scripture is largely dependent upon a mastery of the principles and laws of figurative language, and of types and symbols†(313).
3. If this chapter refers to the literal return of Christ (i.e., the Second Coming) upon the mount of Olives, exactly who is it that will make that escape flight to the east when the mountain is cleft? It cannot be the wicked, for the Bible plainly teaches that they will be destroyed when the Lord returns (Mt. 25:31-46; 2 Thes. 1:7-9). Moreover, it cannot be the righteous, for they will be “caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air†(1 Thes. 4:17). Who else, pray tell, is left?

4. Verse 8 speaks of living waters going forth from Jerusalem in summer and in winter. Since summer and winter will occur only as long as the earth remains (Gen. 8:22), and as the earth will not remain beyond the Coming of Christ (2 Pet. 3:4,10), it is obvious that the events of this verse cannot transpire after the literal return of Jesus – which supposedly is alluded to in verse 4.

5. Verse 12 tells of Jehovah smiting his enemies and their “flesh†being consumed. Again, this cannot refer to a period after the literal return of Christ; the Coming of the Lord will signal “the end,†at which point the dead will be raised, and the living – in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye – will be changed from flesh to a new, spiritual essence. We will pass from corruption to incorruption, from mortality to immortality (1 Cor. 15:23-24,51-53).
Conclusion
Whatever else the meaning of Zechariah 14 may be, it cannot be harmonized with premillennial theology. Two common views of this remarkable chapter, entertained by non-millennial scholars, are as follows:

1. Some hold it to be a symbolic prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, together with a spread of the gospel throughout the Christian age thereafter (cf. Collins, 761-763; Wallace, 246-248).
2. The better view, in this writer’s judgment, suggests that the language is a figurative depiction of the history of spiritual “Jerusalem†(the church), from the time of its commencement on the day of Pentecost throughout the Christian age (see Hengstenberg, II.1155-1182; Laetsch, 493-506). Woudstra had a nice summary of the matter.

“From the mixed character of the imagery employed, referring now to cataclysmic upheavals, now to regular pilgrimages to Jerusalem, it seems to this writer that no such literal interpretation of the pasages is intended. The prophecy has in view various aspects of the gospel age with particular emphasis on its conclusion†(377-378)."


Bubba

 

[Cyberseeker]

The better view, in this writer’s judgment, suggests that the language is a figurative depiction of the history of spiritual “Jerusalem†(the church), from the time of its commencement on the day of Pentecost throughout the Christian age

Hmmm, Im going to have to chew on this one. :-? I agree that excessive literalism exists in some endtimes theology. However in the case of Zech 14 it appears (to me) that figurative interpretations create as many problems as literal ones do.

 

[Bubba]

Cyberseeker,
I would not be honest if I didn't say that parts of Zech.14 are problematic to the Amil. position. I just believe that we have to be careful when visiting the shadows and not relying on the more substantial revelation of the New Testament for our doctrinal stance, be it "End Times" or "Salvation".
Bubba

 

[Cyberseeker]

Look what I googled up!

Martin Luther said of Zechariah 14, “Here, in this chapter, I give up. For I am not sure what the prophet is talking about.â€Â

:smt073

Lol. I dont think he would be the only one.

 

[Vic C.]

I don't know much about the Amil position, but just as I assumed, the historical position that some of the Reformers and men like Adam Clarke believed, place it around the 67-70 AD Jewish revolt and Roman "takeover" and destruction of Jerusalem.

CHAPTER XIV

The commencement of this chapter relates to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, and to the calamities consequent on that event. From this great Jewish tragedy the prophet immediately passes to the utter extermination of the enemies of Christianity in the latter days. God will display his power in behalf of his people in a manner so astonishing and miraculous, that even they themselves, and much more their enemies, shall be struck with terror, 4, 5. The national prosperity of the Jews shall then be permanent and unmixed, 6, 7; and these people shall be made the instruments of converting many to the faith of the Messiah, 8, 9. The great increase and prosperity of the Christian Church, the New Jerusalem, is then described in terms accommodated to Jewish ideas; and the most signal vengeance denounced against all her enemies, 10-19. From that happy period God's name will be honoured in every thing, and his worship every where most reverently observe, 20, 21.

http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/clarkezec14.htm

I like their historical position, but can't get past the belief that Jesus' Second Coming was spiritual and took place around the destruction of Jerusalem. :-?

 

[MrVersatile48]

See also

Falwell Was Right: God Judges Nations

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=29677

Ian

 

[Cyberseeker]

OK. what about Zeph then?

Yes, it seem that Amill supporters have a problem with Zechariah and Premill supporters quote it to prove a millennial reign on earth. But let us now have a look at the 'day of the Lord' according to the prophet Zephaniah. My question now is this: What is the pre-millennial interpretation of Zephaniah and how do they reconcile this to their doctrine? It seems to be more in agreement with 2Peter3:10 and seems to be saying the opposite to Zech!

I will utterly sweep away everything from the face of the earth," declares the LORD. I will sweep away man and beast; I will sweep away the birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea, and the rubble with the wicked. I will cut off mankind from the face of the earth," declares the LORD …
… The great day of the LORD is near …
… a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness …
… In the fire of his jealousy, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full and sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth …
… For my decision is to gather nations, to assemble kingdoms, to pour out upon them my indignation, all my burning anger; for in the fire of my jealousy all the earth shall be consumed.
(Zephaniah abridged)

Cyberseeker

 

[Vic C.]

Hmmm... multiple days of the Lord? :-D I had suggested that a while ago, but got a negative response. 8-)

 

[n2thelight]

First of all I would like to say that the earth will never be destroyed.Whats going to happen is that all that is evil and offend will be removed,you can compare it to when gold or silver is melted and all impurities are removed,thats how it will be when Christ returns.

Second,every mention of the Day of the Lord in scripture is talking about the same thing,Christ second coming

Isaiah 2:12
For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:


Isaiah 13:6
Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.


Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.


Jeremiah 46:10
For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.


Ezekiel 13:5
Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.


Ezekiel 30:3
For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.


Joel 1:15
Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.


Joel 2:1
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;


Joel 2:11
And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?


Joel 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.


Joel 3:14
Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.


Amos 5:18
Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.


Amos 5:20
Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?


Obadiah 1:15
For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.


Zephaniah 1:7
Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.


Zephaniah 1:14
The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.


Zechariah 14:1
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.


Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:


Acts 2:20
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:


1 Corinthians 5:5 (
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


2 Corinthians 1:14
As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are our's in the day of the Lord Jesus.


1 Thessalonians 5:2
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The Day of the Lord is the millenium,the second coming of Christ which is that Day starts it.

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

II Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

"A thief in the night" is an figure of speech that means that Christ shall come at an unexpected time. In the English it sounds like a very scary time, but lets see what it says in the original text. The "elements" are not the elements that you think of, such as gold, iron, oxygen and so on, but they are the "evil rudiments" that go to make up the evil in this earth age. This includes the evil spirits, the fallen angels, and all the things and forms of idolatry that cause flesh man to sin. The time of this burning will be at God's appointed time, so this verse is addressed to all those things that go to offend our Heavenly Father.

If you really understood this 3rd chapter you would see all 3 heaven and earth ages

 

[Vic C.]

Please define "near" and "at hand". 8-)

 

[Cyberseeker]

First of all I would like to say that the earth will never be destroyed.

Dunno about that O.L. Jesus said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." (Matt 24:35)