An honest Calvinist view of Total Depravity.

[electedbyhim]

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

faith, and that not of yourselves. That refers to the entire previous statement of salvation, not only the grace but also the faith. Although people are required to believe for salvation, even that faith is part of the gift of God which saves and cannot be exercised by one's own power. God's grace is preeminent in every aspect of salvation (cf. Rom_3:20; Gal_2:16).

 

[brightfame52]

Whatever

Well, what is the "gospel"? Isn't it good news?

Yes of your Salvation, meaning Salvation is already possesed, thats why its good news, you have it, its yours

Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The word salvation here is sōtēria and its in the genitive case, genitive of possession:
"The car of Bill" tells me that the car belongs to Bill

Do you understand ?

 

[brightfame52]

Whatever

He was living with the Jews and knew all about Jewish expectation of the Messiah and had heard all the talk of a Jesus who had been crucified. To me Cornelius had heard the good news and was now praying for God to send somebody to explain it to him.

Thats what Preaching the Gospel is for, to teach it to the regenerated saved, to make disciples and learners Matt 28:18-19

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Its only designed for regenerated elect ready to be spiritually taught

 

[brightfame52]

electedbyhim

That refers to the entire previous statement of salvation, not only the grace but also the faith. Although people are required to believe for salvation, even that faith is part of the gift of God which saves and cannot be exercised by one's own power.

Very well stated

 

[brightfame52]

Whatever

Where did those guys get this noble and good heart?

Regeneration by the Spirit

 

[Whatever]

Regeneration by the Spirit

Right, which means all the other ones weren't regenerated.

 

[Whatever]

Yes of your Salvation, meaning Salvation is already possesed, thats why its good news, you have it, its yours

So, it is yours without believing? Jesus procured salvation for all the elect, but it isn't theirs until they accept it. Yes, if they are elect, they will accept it. You are compressing everything together. There is no timeline with your thinking, nothing comes first and something else second. It might be that way in the eternal mind of God, but we live in time and space. I was not saved for about 35 years. Now comes the usual question "if you would have died before 35 would you have gone to Hell?" The fact is "I didn't die before I was 35."

You have to remember, God not only foreordains the end "being saved," but everything that comes in between.
I posted a post about Providence earlier this morning. Nobody has dealt with it yet, but it gets into this very thing.

 

[electedbyhim]

So, it is yours without believing? Jesus procured salvation for all the elect, but it isn't theirs until they accept it. Yes, if they are elect, they will accept it. You are compressing everything together. There is no timeline with your thinking, nothing comes first and something else second. It might be that way in the eternal mind of God, but we live in time and space. I was not saved for about 35 years. Now comes the usual question "if you would have died before 35 would you have gone to Hell?" The fact is "I didn't die before I was 35."

You have to remember, God not only foreordains the end "being saved," but everything that comes in between.
I posted a post about Providence earlier this morning. Nobody has dealt with it yet, but it gets into this very thing.

I must have missed that post.

My favorite topic is the providence of God.

Definitely will look into this later or tomorrow.

 

[brightfame52]

Right, which means all the other ones weren't regenerated.

So then the necessity of regeneration before faith. The person had the good heart before the sowing of the seed of the word, correct ? Lk 8:5-15

5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.

8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?

10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

 

[brightfame52]

Whatever

So, it is yours without believing?

Yes, I just explained it to you. one believes because its already theirs.

They are being persuaded of that

 

[brightfame52]

Whatever

Jesus procured salvation for all the elect, but it isn't theirs until they accept it. Yes, if they are elect, they will accept it.

Thats not true and its works if you go that route, sorry

 

[JLB]

Yes, but you have to understand the whole parable.
Luk 8:15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Where did those guys get this noble and good heart?

They obviously had a noble heart before they were saved.

You do understand this right?





JLB

 

[JLB]

Again, you won't accept it, but:
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God

I understand this clearly.

They received faith when they heard the Gospel.

The grace they received with the faith is the Spirit of grace that enables us to believe and therefore obey what we hear from God.


The point:

The salvation resulted because the faith that came through the preaching of the Gospel; the word of faith.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Only those who are God can hear His words, the Gospel is Gods Gospel, Gods word

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. John 8:31


The context of John 8:47 is doctrine: continuing or remaining in the doctrine of Christ.

Continuing in Christ’s teaching is for those who are born again.




Once again, you have lifted the verse you are using out of it’s context, which is your MO.

 

[JLB]

Until you are born again, you cant obey.

Those who are in the flesh cant obey or please God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

False!

We obey the Gospel (truth) through the Spirit.

That is the grace; the Spirit of grace.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.
1 Peter 1:22-23

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16

The preaching of the the Gospel releases both faith and grace to the hearers.

Grace enables the hearers to believe.


No one is saved apart from hearing and believing the Gospel.







JLB

 

[JLB]

These are God's elect that have been called and regenerated to believe.

That’s funny.

The world is not the elect.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

 

[brightfame52]

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. John 8:31


The context of John 8:47 is doctrine: continuing or remaining in the doctrine of Christ.

Continuing in Christ’s teaching is for those who are born again.




Once again, you have lifted the verse you are using out of it’s context, which is your MO.

Only those of God Spiritually hear the word of God

 

[brightfame52]

False!

We obey the Gospel (truth) through the Spirit.

That is the grace; the Spirit of grace.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.
1 Peter 1:22-23

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16

The preaching of the the Gospel releases both faith and grace to the hearers.

Grace enables the hearers to believe.


No one is saved apart from hearing and believing the Gospel.







JLB

Those who are in the flesh can not obey God

 

[brightfame52]

They obviously had a noble heart before they were saved.

You do understand this right?





JLB

They were regenerate before they believed the Gospel

 

[JLB]

Only those of God Spiritually hear the word of God

You keep stating your opinion, which is all you have done since you have been here.

Taking scriptures out of there context, and forcing your preconceived idea upon the passage.


The condition the scriptures give for receiving salvation is to believe.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

• that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Your unscriptural "theory" you are trying to promote to the body of Christ is: a person is born again first, without ever hearing the Gospel, without ever hearing about Jesus Christ and His work on the cross, then sometime later in the future they believe the Gospel.


Here are the questions that I have asked you for years here on this Forum, to which you or anyone else that is a Calvinist, has yet to answer:

• How does a person become saved without ever hearing of Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross?
• When does a person become saved who has never heard the Gospel:

1. Before they were born?
2. In their mothers womb?
3. After they were born?
4. Other?

Please clarify your belief for us by answering these question with scripture.



JLB