The analogy was in response to Riven, asking why God couldn't overlook someone's refusal to change. God won't risk His children being harmed by unrepentant sinners just as you will not.
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Are Christian Homosexuals saved?
- Thread starter Alfred Persson
- Start date
The goal is to have as many people as possible live with God in love. As God is light and cannot live with darkness, God cannot say to people who want to continue to live in darkness, "I forgive you."
Riven
Member
Then there is no hope. The majority of humanity will die and be doomed to eternal torment.
I disagree. The vast majority of mankind want liberty, not slavery:
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;
21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (Rom. 8:19-21 NKJ)
If the analogy to angels is sound, only a third of the angels wanted darkness. Two Thirds chose freedom from sin and perversions, self-delusion. They remained faithful to Yahweh God, in the light of Christ:
So billions and billions of people will fulfill God's promise:
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(Gen. 15:5-6 NKJ)
In Christ all in heaven and earth, who choose light, will be reconciled with God:
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
17 (as it is written, "I have made you a father of many nations ") in the presence of Him whom he believed-- God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;
18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, "So shall your descendants be."
(Rom. 4:16-18 NKJ)
20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. (Col. 1:20 NKJ)
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Refuse to read the latest posts, but gonna post this here.
Dr Wesley Hill is a celibate gay man who believes in the traditional sexual ethic.
At present, I do as well, but I am reading up on the affirming position and giving myself time to prayerfully consider it. Dr Hill is not affirming.
Dr Wesley Hill is a celibate gay man who believes in the traditional sexual ethic.
At present, I do as well, but I am reading up on the affirming position and giving myself time to prayerfully consider it. Dr Hill is not affirming.
PS: The analogy of free will sentient humans to angels is logically sound, no "incompatible properties" exist when it comes to choosing light over darkness, freedom from sin and delusion by intelligent Beings having free will.
Although angels are superior to humans in many ways, it is the implied premise of God reigning over the angels in human nature we are not inferior to them in IQ
5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels.
6 But one testified in a certain place, saying: "What is man that You are mindful of him, Or the son of man that You take care of him?
7 You have made him a little lower than the angels; You have crowned him with glory and honor, And set him over the works of Your hands.
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet." For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,
(Heb. 2:5-11 NKJ)
Angels have technology that far surpasses us, but that is an "accident of history". If the fall never happened, and death never entered creation, both angels and men would be equals intellectually and both joyously working to expand the wonders and glories of New Jerusalem:
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Rev. 21:2 NKJ)
Why post if you don't want to hear others? I believe "desire for the same sex" is a matter of choice, any "desire" can be replaced (defeated) by another "desire".
Therefore, God's judgment is just. Everything we do is a choice we are liable for making.
But unlike some, I believe God will provide opportunity for repentance in hell to all who haven't willfully rejected God.
Will there be a second chance for salvation after death? | End Time News, Today - Rapture Ready News
Google "Will there be a second chance for salvation after death?" and dozens of respected sites will appear emphatically proclaiming "No". What about those who do not believe? Wouldn’t they repent and believe if they were given a second chance? The answer is no, they would not because their...
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So those who believe they can't stop, will in hell. Once liberated from slavery to sin and self delusion, "able to perceive more clearly....because their being no longer obstructed by the paltry flesh" will be able to repent.
Clement of Alezandria [c. 150–215; Learned Christian teacher at Alexandria, Egypt, who was in charge of the catechetical school], would agree:
And, as I think, the Saviour also exerts His might because it is His work to save which accordingly He also did by drawing to salvation those who became willing, by the preaching [of the Gospel], to believe on Him, wherever they were. If, then, the Lord descended to Hades for no other end but to preach the Gospel, as He did descend; it was either to preach the Gospel to all or to the Hebrews only. If, accordingly, to all, then all who believe shall be saved, although they may be of the Gentiles, on making their profession there; since God’s punishments are saving and disciplinary, leading to conversion, and choosing rather the repentance than the death of a sinner; and especially since souls, although darkened by passions, when released from their bodies, are able to perceive more clearly, because of their being no longer obstructed by the paltry flesh.-CHAP. VI.—THE GOSPEL WAS PREACHED TO JEWS AND GENTILES IN HADES, The Stromata, or Miscellanies. In A. Roberts, J. Donaldson, & A. C. Coxe (Eds.), Fathers of the Second Century: Hermas, Tatian, Athenagoras, Theophilus, and Clement of Alexandria (Entire) (Vol. 2, p. 490). Christian Literature Company.
Clement was no obscure Christian. He was the close friend of the bishop of the church in Jerusalem. Clement spent his final years in Jerusalem which church would never have tolerated him if he were heretical.
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No one is born a slave to sin, its a choice.
Wrong desire can be defeated by good desire. To illustrate, I once was addicted to cigarettes, couldn't stop. I gave up trying, saying to myself "I cannot quit".
One day, in a waking dream that was like a vision, I saw myself a prisoner in bed, captive to oxygen tanks. Outside through a window I saw a bright sunny day, children playing on the grass and their parents enjoying conversation at park tables.....and I desperately wanted to be there....
But I couldn't, because I was tethered to oxygen tanks....a prisoner. I hated it.
When I awoke, and the desire for a cigarette came----THEN the desire to be free to breathe without oxygen tanks also rose, replacing the desire for a cigarette.
Its been over 15 years, and it still happens. Whenever the desire to smoke appears, the desire to be free of oxygen tanks overwhelms it.
Will power fails against desire. Desire can only be defeated by a counter desire.
Therefore, God is just when He judges us for our desires.
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Hey All,
"The goal is to have as many people as possible live with God in love. As God is light and cannot live with darkness, God cannot say to people who want to continue to live in darkness, "I forgive you." Quote from Alfred Persson
From where are you getting this goal? God is not a girl scout selling cookies.
I have to give it to you Alfred Persson
you know the truth. "Cannot" is the key word. God cannot violate His nature.
Luke 13:27-28 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
There will be no exceptions. "Workers of iniquity" just means those who continually practice sin with no remorse, no repentance. The saddest fact about these people is that they get to see heaven, but not be allowed to stay there. Don't be those people. Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
"The goal is to have as many people as possible live with God in love. As God is light and cannot live with darkness, God cannot say to people who want to continue to live in darkness, "I forgive you." Quote from Alfred Persson
From where are you getting this goal? God is not a girl scout selling cookies.
I have to give it to you Alfred Persson
you know the truth. "Cannot" is the key word. God cannot violate His nature.
Luke 13:27-28 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
There will be no exceptions. "Workers of iniquity" just means those who continually practice sin with no remorse, no repentance. The saddest fact about these people is that they get to see heaven, but not be allowed to stay there. Don't be those people. Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
God's goal to live in loving fellowship with intelligent life that also loves Him without selfish motives, is implied by the act of creation. If His goal wasn't to populate creation with billions and billions of creatures, neither the angels or man would have been created.
And I don't see where "exceptions" exist in my statement, that I stated or implied "workers of iniquity" can inherit God's kingdom.
You misread my words. God is light and Holy, He cannot permit sin in His presence. It is the nature of Light it destroys any darkness it comes in contact with.
Consider the man in Corinth who was sleeping with his stepmom. He came to Christ, but he lived in unrepentant sin. He was "allowed" to live in this sin for a long time as he and the rest of the Corinthians grew in their faith. Eventually, though, he had to make a choice. Either his sin was more important to him, or Christ was. Christ calls us to repentance, even though the process of sanctification is slow, but ultimately you choose between any given sin and Christ. If you choose the sin, that's not good. So a homosexual can absolutely be saved, but if that person elects to continue in homosexuality in the long term despite it being a sin, with no intent to change, and no intent to change emerges even when confronted with the truth that it is a sin, that is a huge red flag that they're probably not saved.
You are correct.
Welcome to the site.
citrus
Member
We are called to abide. If that sin is not checked it can become a lifestyle. That person must be held accountable. That person's heart will harden and their eyes blind. I believe the unforgivable sin is an umbrella term for things like, making a child do things for child porn, and rapist and Hitler. Things like that. No doubt Hitler was demon possessed. He loved them so he didn't get rid of them so he also is in hell. Worship is a lifestyle. If sin is not checked it can birth spiritual death. We keep abiding. Test the spirits
citrus
Member
I also believe cannabilism is unforgivable if that person knows and isn't a little kid or something. I know kinda gross. I'm not saying homosexuality is not forgivable. It is a lifestyle that has to change before it consumes that person to the point that they won't be ready for heaven.