cyberjosh
Member
I've been discussing alot lately about whether a Christian has security in Christ once they are regenerated, if God will bring to completion the Salvation which he has already given us a measure of. But if we don't have security here on earth I have a more serious question, something which I thought of a long time ago, which outcrops from the Arminian perspective that we are never secure in our salvation, because it is all based on today: What is to say that once we get to heaven with Jesus that we cannot also become like Lucifer and be puffed up with pride of our glory and fall from heaven? If we have insecurity of salvation on earth then why should we have security in heaven? It stands to reason to ask.
I have talked to francisdesales a little about this and I wanted to respond to what he said. He wrote:
There will also most certainly be shame of our past life and different levels of glory and different privilages and statuses in Heaven, though we will be worshiping God. Lucifer had cause for his self-exaltation because he considered himself the most spectacular of all. There is nothing to say that we can't also do the same and fall unless God can keep us totally. As for your mention of purgatory, that interjects an external feature into Biblical theology to try to explain away the different levels of Christian development which cannot comprehensively be explained otherwise, thus it becomes a convenience to say that all will have purified themselves completely in a place such as purgatory. Also more problems arise in line with what I just asked about falling in this life and falling in heaven. What if you can fall away in purgatory? Logic must dictate that also. Unless you say that God can assure you of your cleansing at which point I have got you caught by making a confession of it. Think this through carefully.
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I would like everyone to think very carefully on this and consider the eternal ramifications of our salvation, and to what degree and in what sense it is realized right now. Would we not have no cause for rejoicing as the Bible comands so often if we could not have any assurance in Christ? Our joy would be as fleeting and vain, floating in uncertainty, as the temporal joy of pagan unbelievers if that were so, or so it seems. What is the verdict on this?
God Bless,
~Josh
I have talked to francisdesales a little about this and I wanted to respond to what he said. He wrote:
There is no insecurity in heaven because our hope will be MORE than fully realized. Lucifer was already there, seeing the glory of God. He nevertheless decided he did not want to give of himself (the definition of love), but to get for himself. Those who will enter the Kingdom will not have this desire of selfishness, because NOTHING impure shall enter heaven. NOt even selfish desires! All such selfish desires will be eliminated - (I as a Catholic believe this will be done in Purgatory - but that is another subject) and it can be no other way, because God is a God of Love. We CANNOT join fully with a giving God if WE are not ALSO giving of ourselves. Thus, our will will be directed towards God when we enter heaven. There will be no desire or concern for self (re-read 1 Cor 13 on what love is - "no concern for self").
Those in heaven will love - which means they will have no concern for themselves, only for their Beloved. Then, our joy will be complete, as our faith and hope is realized and all that is left is Love.
There will also most certainly be shame of our past life and different levels of glory and different privilages and statuses in Heaven, though we will be worshiping God. Lucifer had cause for his self-exaltation because he considered himself the most spectacular of all. There is nothing to say that we can't also do the same and fall unless God can keep us totally. As for your mention of purgatory, that interjects an external feature into Biblical theology to try to explain away the different levels of Christian development which cannot comprehensively be explained otherwise, thus it becomes a convenience to say that all will have purified themselves completely in a place such as purgatory. Also more problems arise in line with what I just asked about falling in this life and falling in heaven. What if you can fall away in purgatory? Logic must dictate that also. Unless you say that God can assure you of your cleansing at which point I have got you caught by making a confession of it. Think this through carefully.
--------------------
I would like everyone to think very carefully on this and consider the eternal ramifications of our salvation, and to what degree and in what sense it is realized right now. Would we not have no cause for rejoicing as the Bible comands so often if we could not have any assurance in Christ? Our joy would be as fleeting and vain, floating in uncertainty, as the temporal joy of pagan unbelievers if that were so, or so it seems. What is the verdict on this?
God Bless,
~Josh