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I don’t believe Jesus would lie to us.

He said He came to fulfill the law.


  • I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.


Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18


  • one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.


The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
Luke 16:16



What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19



For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Ephesians 2:14-15

  • having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,



  • having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:13-14

  • So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.



JLB
You keep going in circles and not answering my questions.

Colossians 2:13 is the only new evidence you presented, so I will address it.

Paul is speaking to new Christians who were among pagans that were judging them for not worshiping their false gods and instead keeping the Jewish feasts. Paul was telling them "don't let THEM judge you FOR keeping the Sabbath". This is just one of many misunderstood verses that people are confused about.
 
You do understand that no one can be saved by the law?

“By the deeds of the law shall no man be justified “

I don’t think anyone is saying the law is not good and right. But if you seek to be justified by it, we’ll then…..
I never said we are justified by the law, read my comment again.
 
So what is it you are trying to prove by the law?

There is a major misconception called antinomianism and some people think that Jesus abolished the law when he fulfilled it, while in reality he abolished the punishment for disobeying the law, not the law itself. First let's look at the usage of fulfill that is commonly used in mainstream Christianity. They pretty much claim that fulfill means to end. So in Matthew 5:17-18, they're saying Jesus ended the Law. Using the same logic, they must also agree that in Matthew 3:15, Jesus abolished/ended righteousness when he got baptized. And likewise for Romans 13:8 that when we love, we are ending the law.

Fulfill simply means to do something that is expected, hoped for, or promised. So when we are loving others, as the law commands, we are completing its expectations/requirements.

Jesus fulfilling the law means we are not under the punishment of the law like the people were in the old testament. We are saved by grace through faith alone, but the law was never abolished and it still pleases God when you obey all of his commandments. While we are saved by grace, we are still rewarded for following God's law and other good works that we do. Jesus said in Matthew 5:19 that those who ignore the least of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be the least in the kingdom of heaven, while those who obey the least of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be great in heaven. Acts 15:29 even gives us some old testament laws for new Christians to follow as a minimum, but people continue to ignore the rest of the law even after they are no longer new Christians. They continue to misinterpret Paul's teaching as if the law doesn't exist anymore.

The law still determines what sin is, and the law is eternal.

1 John 3:4 “Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.”

Romans 7:7 “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Psalm 119:160 “The entirety of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.”

In Matthew 5:18 Jesus said that not a single letter will disappear from the law, meaning either ALL of the law is still valid, or NONE of it is. Obviously, all of it is still valid. Jesus never differentiated between moral, sacrificial, and other laws, they were all referred to as “the law”. We are not living in the nation of ancient Israel so civil laws do not apply to us, and we are told in Romans 13 to obey the authority of whatever nation we live in. As far as other OT laws like the animal sacrifices, we don't have the temple today, but we will in the future, and during the millennium rule of Christ the sacrifices will resume. Animal sacrifices will not be as an atonement for sins, but rather as remembrance or as a lesson that the wages of sin is death. Other laws such as Sabbath keeping, clean diet, keeping feasts, wearing tzitzit and other commandments still apply to us today.

https://www.gotquestions.org/millennial-sacrifices.html

Long before the law was given to Moses, Cain’s brother Able knew it was right to sacrifice animals to God, and Cain knew that fruits of his labor are not a valid sacrifice. Cain also knew that murder is wrong. God's law doesn't change.

People are confused about verses like Colossians 2:16 seemingly telling people not to worry about keeping the Sabbath or dietary laws, but in reality if you look at the context, Paul is speaking to new Christians who were among pagans that were judging them for not worshiping their false gods and instead keeping the Jewish feasts. Paul was telling them "don't let THEM judge you FOR keeping the Sabbath". This is just one of many misunderstood verses that people are confused about.


This rebellious antinomianism began with the 2nd century church leaders, somewhere between Clement of Rome, who defended the law, and Justin Martyr about 100 years later. The church leaders became antisemitic and started referring to Jews as Christ killers, and preached replacement theology that God has abandoned Jews in favor of gentiles. They said God’s commandments were given to Jews as “punishment”.

Clements letter to the Corinthians (Clement was a gentile successor of Paul.)
"These things therefore being manifest to us, and since we look into the depths of the divine knowledge, it behoves us to do all things in [their proper] order, which the Lord has commanded us to perform at stated times.[1] He has enjoined offerings [to be presented] and service to be performed [to Him], and that not thoughtlessly or irregularly, but at the appointed times and hours. Where and by whom He desires these things to be done, He Himself has fixed by His own supreme will, in order that all things, being piously done according to His good pleasure, may be acceptable unto Him.[2] Those, therefore, who present their offerings at the appointed times, are accepted and blessed; for inasmuch as they follow the laws of the Lord, they sin not. For his own peculiar services are assigned to the high priest, and their own proper place is prescribed to the priests, and their own special ministrations devolve on the Levites. The layman is bound by the laws that pertain to laymen.

Let every one of you, brethren, give thanks[1] to God in his own order, living in all good conscience, with becoming gravity, and not going beyond the rule of the ministry prescribed to him. Not in every place, brethren, are the daily sacrifices offered, or the peace-offerings, or the sin-offerings and the trespass-offerings, but in Jerusalem only. And even there they are not offered in any place, but only at the altar before the temple, that which is offered being first carefully examined by the high priest and the ministers already mentioned. Those, therefore, who do anything beyond that which is agreeable to His will, are punished with death. Ye see,[2] brethren, that the greater the knowledge that has been vouchsafed to us, the greater also is the danger to which we are exposed."

Ante Nicene fathers volume 9 chapter 40-41.
 
Yes, but people who believe the law has been abolished are not saying it has no relevance. As if it should not be followed. It should, but the thing is, it is insufficient to save anyone.
A person might think he obeys the law completely and might think that’s how he is saved. He would be mistaken.
Another person might think he obeys the law because it is guide for right living, but understands it’s not enough to save him from death.
That person might look for another way to be saved.
 
There is a major misconception called antinomianism and some people think that Jesus abolished the law when he fulfilled it, while in reality he abolished the punishment for disobeying the law, not the law itself. First let's look at the usage of fulfill that is commonly used in mainstream Christianity. They pretty much claim that fulfill means to end. So in Matthew 5:17-18, they're saying Jesus ended the Law. Using the same logic, they must also agree that in Matthew 3:15, Jesus abolished/ended righteousness when he got baptized. And likewise for Romans 13:8 that when we love, we are ending the law.

Fulfill simply means to do something that is expected, hoped for, or promised. So when we are loving others, as the law commands, we are completing its expectations/requirements.

Jesus fulfilling the law means we are not under the punishment of the law like the people were in the old testament. We are saved by grace through faith alone, but the law was never abolished and it still pleases God when you obey all of his commandments. While we are saved by grace, we are still rewarded for following God's law and other good works that we do. Jesus said in Matthew 5:19 that those who ignore the least of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be the least in the kingdom of heaven, while those who obey the least of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be great in heaven. Acts 15:29 even gives us some old testament laws for new Christians to follow as a minimum, but people continue to ignore the rest of the law even after they are no longer new Christians. They continue to misinterpret Paul's teaching as if the law doesn't exist anymore.

The law still determines what sin is, and the law is eternal.

1 John 3:4 “Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.”

Romans 7:7 “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Psalm 119:160 “The entirety of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.”

In Matthew 5:18 Jesus said that not a single letter will disappear from the law, meaning either ALL of the law is still valid, or NONE of it is. Obviously, all of it is still valid. Jesus never differentiated between moral, sacrificial, and other laws, they were all referred to as “the law”. We are not living in the nation of ancient Israel so civil laws do not apply to us, and we are told in Romans 13 to obey the authority of whatever nation we live in. As far as other OT laws like the animal sacrifices, we don't have the temple today, but we will in the future, and during the millennium rule of Christ the sacrifices will resume. Animal sacrifices will not be as an atonement for sins, but rather as remembrance or as a lesson that the wages of sin is death. Other laws such as Sabbath keeping, clean diet, keeping feasts, wearing tzitzit and other commandments still apply to us today.

https://www.gotquestions.org/millennial-sacrifices.html

Long before the law was given to Moses, Cain’s brother Able knew it was right to sacrifice animals to God, and Cain knew that fruits of his labor are not a valid sacrifice. Cain also knew that murder is wrong. God's law doesn't change.

People are confused about verses like Colossians 2:16 seemingly telling people not to worry about keeping the Sabbath or dietary laws, but in reality if you look at the context, Paul is speaking to new Christians who were among pagans that were judging them for not worshiping their false gods and instead keeping the Jewish feasts. Paul was telling them "don't let THEM judge you FOR keeping the Sabbath". This is just one of many misunderstood verses that people are confused about.


This rebellious antinomianism began with the 2nd century church leaders, somewhere between Clement of Rome, who defended the law, and Justin Martyr about 100 years later. The church leaders became antisemitic and started referring to Jews as Christ killers, and preached replacement theology that God has abandoned Jews in favor of gentiles. They said God’s commandments were given to Jews as “punishment”.

Clements letter to the Corinthians (Clement was a gentile successor of Paul.)
"These things therefore being manifest to us, and since we look into the depths of the divine knowledge, it behoves us to do all things in [their proper] order, which the Lord has commanded us to perform at stated times.[1] He has enjoined offerings [to be presented] and service to be performed [to Him], and that not thoughtlessly or irregularly, but at the appointed times and hours. Where and by whom He desires these things to be done, He Himself has fixed by His own supreme will, in order that all things, being piously done according to His good pleasure, may be acceptable unto Him.[2] Those, therefore, who present their offerings at the appointed times, are accepted and blessed; for inasmuch as they follow the laws of the Lord, they sin not. For his own peculiar services are assigned to the high priest, and their own proper place is prescribed to the priests, and their own special ministrations devolve on the Levites. The layman is bound by the laws that pertain to laymen.

Let every one of you, brethren, give thanks[1] to God in his own order, living in all good conscience, with becoming gravity, and not going beyond the rule of the ministry prescribed to him. Not in every place, brethren, are the daily sacrifices offered, or the peace-offerings, or the sin-offerings and the trespass-offerings, but in Jerusalem only. And even there they are not offered in any place, but only at the altar before the temple, that which is offered being first carefully examined by the high priest and the ministers already mentioned. Those, therefore, who do anything beyond that which is agreeable to His will, are punished with death. Ye see,[2] brethren, that the greater the knowledge that has been vouchsafed to us, the greater also is the danger to which we are exposed."

Ante Nicene fathers volume 9 chapter 40-41.
Yes, but people who believe the law has been abolished are not saying it has no relevance. As if it should not be followed. It should, but the thing is, it is insufficient to save anyone.
A person might think he obeys the law completely and might think that’s how he is saved. He would be mistaken.
Another person might think he obeys the law because it is guide for right living, but understands it’s not enough to save him from death.
That person might look for another way to be saved.
 
Yes, but people who believe the law has been abolished are not saying it has no relevance. As if it should not be followed. It should, but the thing is, it is insufficient to save anyone.
A person might think he obeys the law completely and might think that’s how he is saved. He would be mistaken.
Another person might think he obeys the law because it is guide for right living, but understands it’s not enough to save him from death.
That person might look for another way to be saved.
You didn't read my comment at all did you?

I said we are saved by faith alone.

And yes there are MANY people who think the law has NO RELEVANCE.
 
One who thinks the law has no relevance is immoral.
Most Christians believe they live under the law of Grace and all they have to do is love God and neighbor to fulfill all of the law (Galatians 5:14). That is not the context of that verse. If all we had to do is love our neighbor to fulfill all of God's law then Satan worshippers and atheists are just as righteous as any Christians as long as they love their neighbors.

The law is still there, all of it. We are saved by faith and not by law, but anyone who thinks the Sabbath and dietary laws etc are no longer relevant is wrong. It still pleases God when we follow all of his laws. That's why salvation is to the Jew first, then the non-Jew (Romans 1:16). God favors Jews because they obey his law.
 
Most Christians believe they live under the law of Grace and all they have to do is love God and neighbor to fulfill all of the law (Galatians 5:14). That is not the context of that verse. If all we had to do is love our neighbor to fulfill all of God's law then Satan worshippers and atheists are just as righteous as any Christians as long as they love their neighbors.

The law is still there, all of it. We are saved by faith and not by law, but anyone who thinks the Sabbath and dietary laws etc are no longer relevant is wrong. It still pleases God when we follow all of his laws. That's why salvation is to the Jew first, then the non-Jew (Romans 1:16). God favors Jews because they obey his law.
If a Christian believes he fulfills the law by loving God and his neighbor, he is right.
Because all the law hangs upon those two things.
If a person loves God and his neighbor, does he not fulfill the requirements of the law?
I would say he does.
 
If a Christian believes he fulfills the law by loving God and his neighbor, he is right.
Because all the law hangs upon those two things.
If a person loves God and his neighbor, does he not fulfill the requirements of the law?
I would say he does.
How do you know what loving God and neighbor is? You wouldn't know it if it wasn't for the law.

Romans 7:7 “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

How do you know what sin is? You wouldn't know it if it wasn't for the law.

1 John 3:4 “Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.”

The law continues to define what sin is. Jesus said in Matthew 5:19 that those who ignore the least of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be the least in the kingdom of heaven, while those who obey the least of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be great in heaven. You'll still be saved, but you'll be among the least in heaven. Do you really want to do the bare minimum for God?
 
How do you know what loving God and neighbor is? You wouldn't know it if it wasn't for the law.

Romans 7:7 “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

How do you know what sin is? You wouldn't know it if it wasn't for the law.

1 John 3:4 “Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.”

The law continues to define what sin is. Jesus said in Matthew 5:19 that those who ignore the least of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be the least in the kingdom of heaven, while those who obey the least of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be great in heaven. You'll still be saved, but you'll be among the least in heaven. Do you really want to do the bare minimum for God?
I hear you.

Truth is very easy to understand by those willing to accept it.

The law gives knowledge of sin. If there was no law there would be no sin because law defines what is sin.

The law describes what is right and wrong. And if there is no law, there is no right or worng.

God’s law is just and good. But it cannot save anyone who thinks he obeys it.

The reason is, the one who thinks he obeys completely deceives himself.

Therefore, the law is just and good, but not sufficient to save.
 
God’s law means nothing to the people of the world. Very sad.

I tell you a truth. The triumph of the wicked of this world will be only for a short time in God’s eyes. In the end, truth and justice will win.
Keep the faith!
 
You keep going in circles and not answering my questions.

I have answered you with scripture, over and over again to only have you reject and deny what the scriptures say.


The law of Moses was always temporary until the SEED should come.

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

The law of Moses would not pass away until it was fulfilled. You actually said Jesus did not fulfill it.

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18

You actually are implying Jesus did not do what He said He came to do, which was fulfill the law.


If you believe you are under the law of Moses, then please by all means sacrifice animals for your sins.





JLB
 
The law of Moses would not pass away until it was fulfilled. You actually said Jesus did not fulfill it.

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18

You actually are implying Jesus did not do what He said He came to do, which was fulfill the law.
 
What the law says, it says to those who are under the law.

It was the Jews only whom God gave his laws. If the Jews don’t accept their Messiah, they are still under the law.

The law contains judgments. Judgments are part of the law and the prophets. Until those judgments contained in the law are fulfilled, the law will not pass away.
 
What the law says, it says to those who are under the law.

It was the Jews only whom God gave his laws. If the Jews don’t accept their Messiah, they are still under the law.

The law contains judgments. Judgments are part of the law and the prophets. Until those judgments contained in the law are fulfilled, the law will not pass away.
Thanks for sharing your opinion with us.
 
If obedience to the law gives eternal life. Send me $25 or $50 and I’ll tell you that the only way to save yourself is to obey God’s law.
 

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