Bible Study Behaviorism Verses Life

[netchaplain]

There’s the “being” (Mary - Luk 10:42) and then the “doing” (Martha - v 41), and the more we are established in the former, the more maturity the latter will reveal. It’s an axiom that there can be no doing in Christ if there is no being in Him at all, and the significance to the doing is measured in how much it manifests the One we are in. Concerning the being, there is only one position of placement, e.g. one is either in Christ or not and that place of redemption is at the same degree for all, but the maturity in this placement varies between all.

The maturity in Christ serves firstly to the individual’s estimation of Him and the Father. Do They love all the same though all are at varying maturity levels? Does Their favor rest with one as much as all the others? Yes and yes! Though I do not think Scripture clearly demonstrates varying degrees in pleasing God, I would suspect that the more one desires to mature in His Son, the more pleasure God has from such, but this would not affect the amount of His love and favor which is the same for all who are His!

Thus, our maturing is never related to God’s love and favor towards us (which is what we rest in—NC) but is rather related to that which has to do with our manifesting God in our manner of life (conduct), which is gauged by the degree of which we grow in our “love” to others (2Pet 1:7). Conduct, to the degree of significance at which it has in manifesting God within, will always remain inferior to our being in Him. The greater our contemplation of our being in God, the greater success will be our doing for Him.

- NC

Behaviorism Verses Life​

All life is inward; only the expression of life is outward. A man’s life, his vitals and vital processes, all are inward, enclosed in a protective skin. An orange is beautiful to look at, but shall we content ourselves with merely talking about its size, shape, color, and skin? No; we want what is inside, as that alone satisfies. Similarly, it is sad that much sermonizing and Bible study fail to take off the wrappings of externals to get at the meat of a satisfying spiritual life.

There is a constant emphasis upon externals in current Christian thinking. This directly fosters the tragic error in Christendom: Behaviorism. The popular concept of the Christian life is that it consists of conduct*: behave yourself a certain way; do this, don’t do that. It is the not-so-subtle error of legalism: show yourself a good Christian by behaving as one. The net result is that churches are substituting activity and programs for the real life, and hence are busy rearing a generation of superficial, surface Christians.

Progressive revelation characterizes the Bible. The Lord Jesus did not live under that New Testament, or New Covenant. He first mentions it as instituted by His death: “the new covenant in My blood.” Only when He has died, risen, ascended and given us the Holy Spirit is the New Testament in force. It is a new agreement, a new way of living, based on these facts*. Hence the Gospel, how to receive this life and how to live it, is found in the Epistles*, and particularly those written by the Apostle Paul.

The Lord Jesus said, “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now”—not until the New Covenant is operative. When did He ever say them? “When He, the Spirit of truth is come, He will guide you into all truth.” The Lord Jesus’ “many things” are given by the Spirit in the Epistles. Only as we give heed to this distinctive New Testament way of living, entrusted mainly to Paul and taught by the Spirit in the epistles, do we honor the glorified Lord Jesus.

With this transition from law to life a new terminology is developed to fit the new situation. Often those who believed in the Lord Jesus had been designated “disciples”: this term is never used in the Epistles. During His lifetime on earth men had been called to “follow” Jesus: they cannot follow Him now. Rather, believers are called to something far more intimate and satisfying—an “in” relationship. Formerly He said, “Come unto Me”: now He says “abide in Me.”

Not only is the Christian in Christ, but He is in the Christian as the source of new, heavenly life (which those in the OT could not experience while on the earth—NC). The branch receives all its life from the vine; as we abide in Him we draw upon Him for the qualities of life which are in Him alone. Often a man is heard to say, “I’m trying to live a Christian life,” which means that he is depending upon himself to do it. His resource is himself. Along with many others in our churches today he is substituting a good life for a Christian life.

- N B Harrison


Poster’s Opinion:
* “consists of conduct”: e.g. thinking that our primary make up is of that which one does. Though this is primary to how one manifests God, it is never related to our being in Him. -If conduct was truly as significant as it is emphasized, there would be much lacking among all. The conduct of everyone born again is in an ever-progressing conformity which will never affect our place in God but serves most to manifest that which is of the greatest importance to God—our son-ship in the Lord Jesus.

* “a new way of living, based on these facts”: In the prior Covenant these facts (Christ’s life, death, burial, resurrection and ascension) were not available for use but were only foreshadows of them (Heb 10:1), therefore the OT saints were in the place of guidance by God’s Spirit, and the NT saints are in the place of direct control (Rom 8:13; Gal 5:17; Eph 3:16) by the indwelling of God’s Spirit.

* “found in the Epistles”: many of the Gospel conditions and results of earthly saints are identified in the Gospels (cf. Mat 5), i.e. “the kingdom of heaven” is to those who are “poor in spirit.” “The meek shall inherit the earth, “ etc., but how to receive and live in them are primarily stated in the Epistles.


Miles J Stanford Devotional:
http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/day/2016/10/11/

 

[Christ_empowered]

wow. Insightful. Speaking as someone currently labeled a "Mental Patient" (and I'm blessed...could be bad for me, this is a soft landing...), I'm kinda concerned about all the secular wisdom, psycho-stuff in particular, that's in the church. This matched my concerns up with some Christian insight and Scripture, so now I see that other people share my concerns...and can articulate them and back them up (and that I'm not just an angry, bitter, "mental patient," lol.)

Thanks.

 

[netchaplain]

wow. Insightful. Speaking as someone currently labeled a "Mental Patient" (and I'm blessed...could be bad for me, this is a soft landing...), I'm kinda concerned about all the secular wisdom, psycho-stuff in particular, that's in the church. This matched my concerns up with some Christian insight and Scripture, so now I see that other people share my concerns...and can articulate them and back them up (and that I'm not just an angry, bitter, "mental patient," lol.)

Thanks.

Hi CE - Thanks for your comment and compliment, and I've been experiencing somewhat the same for about 5 years now, and it causes you to be even more grateful to have the Word of God to keep you steady! I believe the last half century has seen a significant part of Christendom attempting to teach non-scriptural doctrines, resulting in giving a peculiar appearance to those who teach Scripture.

 

[Jim Parker]

There’s the “being” (Mary - Luk 10:42) and then the “doing” (Martha - v 41), and the more we are established in the former, the more maturity the latter will reveal.

One cannot "be" unless one "does."

 

[netchaplain]

Just in mentioning I wanted to point out that my intention for posting this article is to indicate the difference between our relationship with God and our walk with Him. Our "being" in God has only to do with our union with Him. Our "doing" or walk in God has only to do with how we "draw" near to Him and how He uses us to reach others by manifesting (glorifying) Him to others through "works" (Mat 5:16), which is never related to the union we have with Him through the Lord Jesus.

Though our redemption has nothing to do with our works, other than choosing to believe which IMO is not a work, our works have everything to do with our fellowship with Him, e.g. how close we draw to God and one another!

 

[Jim Parker]

Just in mentioning I wanted to point out that my intention for posting this article is to indicate the difference between our relationship with God and our walk with Him. Our "being" in God has only to do with our union with Him. Our "doing" or walk in God has only to do with how we "draw" near to Him and how He uses us to reach others by manifesting (glorifying) Him to others through "works" (Mat 5:16), which is never related to the union we have with Him through the Lord Jesus.

Please exegete: Luk 6:46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say?" (NKJV)
I believe you have created a false dichotomy by separating being in union with God and drawing near to God.
It is impossible to be in union with God without drawing near.
IF one is a believer, he is "in Christ" and the "bride of Christ" being of one flesh with Christ. (EPh 5:31-32) One cannot draw any closer than being one flesh with another.

iakov the fool

 

[Chopper]

O boy Chaplain. I absolutely love this thread. As a matter of fact, you are awarded Choppers "Home Run". Here is one of the important teachings of yours.

Formerly He said, “Come unto Me”: now He says “abide in Me.”

John 15 is one of my favorite chapters in our Bibles. The word "abide" is all thru this chapter, and it is the absolute rule of Christian life success. Here is another good quote of yours....

The branch receives all its life from the vine; as we abide in Him we draw upon Him for the qualities of life which are in Him alone. Often a man is heard to say, “I’m trying to live a Christian life,” which means that he is depending upon himself to do it. His resource is himself. Along with many others in our churches today he is substituting a good life for a Christian life.

So my friend, thanks for a very informative thread.

 

[netchaplain]

Thanks Chopper for the compliments, and I'm with you concerning them because they go to the author. It's always encouraging to see those whom God has prepared to receive what He has for them! I've also learned that if we are not presently prepared of God to receive something, He will eventually prep us later for it. Everything is timely with Him!

 

[smaller]

There are very certain scriptural "paradoxes", "conflicts" "controversies" and "contrasts" involved and in play in matters of good and evil in our present environment, and in the scriptures, delineated.

For example, no christian in their right mind has any interests in "doing evil." We do or should understand that to do, is to be a captive of. We can be captives to good. We can be captives to evil. But truthfully, can we dishonest? And this kind of cuts to the chase.

At any time we do good, or seek to do good, (behaviorism/moral theology) Paul shows us also, this reality:

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

In my sight this "law" eliminates any legitimate claims of "works salvation" or "moral theology" proponents. They refuse to look at Paul's "internal" reality quotient, quite falsely thinking that in doing good and being good, that hard fact of "law" of "evil being present" is eliminated. It isn't eliminated.

The paradox, conflicts, controversies and contrasts ONLY come into play when we try to force fit ourselves on one side of a line that doesn't even exist. Good exists with Evil. That's all there is to it.

We "avoid" evil precisely to stay FREE of it. Yet to say we don't have "evil present" with us is a LIE. And the lie is compounded by "hypocrisy." And in this direction, even though GOOD in doing good, and trying to always do GOOD, we get TRAPPED by the very evil we're trying to avoid by being captured by lying hypocrisy.

IF we understand that "law" we also then understand 'unmerited' Grace, and it's basis of need for same, because we do have as Paul had, that law, of evil present with us. Evil present is MEANT to show us unmerited Grace. And the very real NEED of Gods Mercy in Christ.

When we say or claim we are "due" either because of our "works" we SLUR both Grace and Mercy in Christ. Evil present with us precludes us from 'honestly' making personal due claims for either based on doing good, and simultaneously overlooking, even lying about the fact that "evil present" with us. And this EVIL present is due NOTHING but resistance and condemnation, RIGHTFULLY, from God in Christ. REGARDLESS of "doing good" by any of us.

Paul brings us precisely to this paradox in Romans 8:3 and Romans 8:10. In vs. 3 Paul shows us that the CONDEMNATION of God in Christ IS upon sin in flesh. There is no way to 'dodge' this condemnation. In vs. 10 we are shown, that in the sight of God, our body is DEAD because of sin. And this paradox, of being both under LIFE by faith in Grace/Mercy in Christ and simultaneously in CONDEMNATION of Christ, is shown. Being both ALIVE and DEAD. This is NOT an easy matter to understand, that's for sure!

This same paradox arises in many of Paul's teachings. In Gal. 5:17 for example, we are shown that the Spirit is actively AGAINST and CONTRARY TO our own flesh. Yes, the Spirit is in fact OUR ENEMY, at least the enemy of our flesh. oie vey!!! No believer really likes to see that. But it is THE TRUTH.

So, yes, we live in this paradox. And we can easily be deceived and turned into lying hypocrites when we don't understand these two factual states with us, of GOOD and also of EVIL. And yes, these are and will remain "in conflict," "contentions" and "controversies." Most of the controversies in christian sects arises from the good trying to avoid the evil, rather than simply understanding, and being HONEST about this internal reality.

In reality it is a GOOD thing for God to be against evil, for us. But it is a bad thing when we understand the implications of that, theologically. IF God is against "evil present" then God in Christ is NOT ONLY FOR US.

And everyone who sees this, will say OH NO! Rather than AMEN.

Personally I've reconciled the fact that God IS against the evil present with me. And I take the consequences in silence, because I am rather helpless and disarmed. The ONLY place remaining for me to stand, is upon HIS GRACE AND MERCY.

But this will not avoid the "chastisements" and "tribulations" that God has EVERY RIGHT to impose on me, because of "evil present" with me. And THESE I can also attest to, as a REALITY of faith.

Believers in truth, will experience the other side of Gods Sovereignty, in and by adversity. It's not an "all good dog" world, in faith.

This picture is given here, though today, there are few that see it for themselves. IT is an internal picture, of both good and evil, growing "together" in the same ground, the same body of earth, we, SAVED by Grace, walking in His Mercy, doing GOOD, and our flesh, with evil present/indwelling sin, in condemnation.

Matthew 13:
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Many read the above and think it's about them, the WHEAT only, and "other people" the tare. That is the sight that LIES and HYPOCRISY imposes on them.

It's about 'us' and the 'evil present' with us. That will be CUT OFF prior to being taken to His BARN OF HEAVEN.

And yes, our "evil present" is from our enemy, not a produce of ourselves as Gods children. But there, nevertheless. Paul again pinpoints this, identifying that the 'sin' that dwelt in his own flesh was "no more I" twice in Romans 7:17 & 19. This shows it to be "foreign" to Gods children. "No more I."

 

[netchaplain]

There are very certain scriptural "paradoxes", "conflicts" "controversies" and "contrasts" involved and in play in matters of good and evil in our present environment, and in the scriptures, delineated.

For example, no christian in their right mind has any interests in "doing evil." We do or should understand that to do, is to be a captive of. We can be captives to good. We can be captives to evil. But truthfully, can we dishonest? And this kind of cuts to the chase.

At any time we do good, or seek to do good, (behaviorism/moral theology) Paul shows us also, this reality:

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me."

Good analysis I believe! With God, He does not regard the believer after the sinful nature which does evil but after the new nature which does good, because we are no longer "after the sinful nature" (Rom 8:9). Thus the presence of the evil nature has no consequence or effect between us and God, because His grace in us always abounds more than that of the evil nature in us, which gives place to the new nature in us--through the Spirit's use of it in us (Eph 3:16).

no christian in their right mind has any interests in "doing evil."

This is the evidence of God's grace and "work" (Phl 2:113), the predominating desire He works in us. His goal is us eternally having this desire over our own evil desire. It's all in the "desire," which is the new nature, which can never be with the unbeliever.

Blessings!

 

[smaller]

Thus the presence of the evil nature has no consequence or effect between us and God

I believe the Spirit is always in active contention with evil present, as we are shown in Gal. 5:17. This is also why we "experience" tribulations and chastisements.

God is not the Divine Buddy of evil present in anyone.

 

[Chopper]

Thanks Chopper for the compliments, and I'm with you concerning them because they go to the author. It's always encouraging to see those whom God has prepared to receive what He has for them! I've also learned that if we are not presently prepared of God to receive something, He will eventually prep us later for it. Everything is timely with Him!

Absolutely my friend. It no longer amazes me when something spiritual comes my way and meets a need. I almost expect it!! Especially in the Psalms. When I'm going thru a particularly hard time, something that David experienced, and prayed about it, Hey, that's me. Oh praise Jesus for His timely gifts of encouragement. For 42 years now, I have been an avid student of God's Word. (KJV) Even today, being retired from the full time ministry to churches, I actually spend more time in the Scriptures than ever, the thirst never goes away.

I must say, at the end of my hours of Bible study, each morning, My thirst is quenched. About the time that I awake, boy, I'm thirsty again, back to the fountain (Bible) for a long drink.

Thank you Dear Chaplain for being faithful to the Word of God and how that should impact our lives. You have been a faithful servant to the valuable, life changing doctrines of true Christianity. The instructions from the Christ thru you have not gone unheeded. I for one, honor you for your faithfulness to our Savior.

 

[netchaplain]

I believe the Spirit is always in active contention with evil present, as we are shown in Gal. 5:17. This is also why we "experience" tribulations and chastisements.

God is not the Divine Buddy of evil present in anyone.

Amen, hardship keeps us God-dependent and growing in the faith, and His chastisement keeps us from excessive straying.

Though the sinful nature (evil) is nothing but enmity with God and those born again.

God be blessed!

 

[netchaplain]

Absolutely my friend. It no longer amazes me when something spiritual comes my way and meets a need.

Amen, He already has everything met, which cannot be prevented and will transpire according to is will, regardless of all occurrences.

Thanks again for your encouraging comments Brother.

 

[smaller]

There is a very pleasant and peaceful flag of faith in Christ to walk in, to fly in, always:

Romans 12:21
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[netchaplain]

There is a very pleasant and peaceful flag of faith in Christ to walk in, to fly in, always:

Romans 12:21
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Amen Brother!

 

[Chopper]

There are very certain scriptural "paradoxes", "conflicts" "controversies" and "contrasts" involved and in play in matters of good and evil in our present environment, and in the scriptures, delineated.

For example, no christian in their right mind has any interests in "doing evil." We do or should understand that to do, is to be a captive of. We can be captives to good. We can be captives to evil. But truthfully, can we dishonest? And this kind of cuts to the chase.

At any time we do good, or seek to do good, (behaviorism/moral theology) Paul shows us also, this reality:

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

In my sight this "law" eliminates any legitimate claims of "works salvation" or "moral theology" proponents. They refuse to look at Paul's "internal" reality quotient, quite falsely thinking that in doing good and being good, that hard fact of "law" of "evil being present" is eliminated. It isn't eliminated.

The paradox, conflicts, controversies and contrasts ONLY come into play when we try to force fit ourselves on one side of a line that doesn't even exist. Good exists with Evil. That's all there is to it.

We "avoid" evil precisely to stay FREE of it. Yet to say we don't have "evil present" with us is a LIE. And the lie is compounded by "hypocrisy." And in this direction, even though GOOD in doing good, and trying to always do GOOD, we get TRAPPED by the very evil we're trying to avoid by being captured by lying hypocrisy.

IF we understand that "law" we also then understand 'unmerited' Grace, and it's basis of need for same, because we do have as Paul had, that law, of evil present with us. Evil present is MEANT to show us unmerited Grace. And the very real NEED of Gods Mercy in Christ.

When we say or claim we are "due" either because of our "works" we SLUR both Grace and Mercy in Christ. Evil present with us precludes us from 'honestly' making personal due claims for either based on doing good, and simultaneously overlooking, even lying about the fact that "evil present" with us. And this EVIL present is due NOTHING but resistance and condemnation, RIGHTFULLY, from God in Christ. REGARDLESS of "doing good" by any of us.

Paul brings us precisely to this paradox in Romans 8:3 and Romans 8:10. In vs. 3 Paul shows us that the CONDEMNATION of God in Christ IS upon sin in flesh. There is no way to 'dodge' this condemnation. In vs. 10 we are shown, that in the sight of God, our body is DEAD because of sin. And this paradox, of being both under LIFE by faith in Grace/Mercy in Christ and simultaneously in CONDEMNATION of Christ, is shown. Being both ALIVE and DEAD. This is NOT an easy matter to understand, that's for sure!

This same paradox arises in many of Paul's teachings. In Gal. 5:17 for example, we are shown that the Spirit is actively AGAINST and CONTRARY TO our own flesh. Yes, the Spirit is in fact OUR ENEMY, at least the enemy of our flesh. oie vey!!! No believer really likes to see that. But it is THE TRUTH.

So, yes, we live in this paradox. And we can easily be deceived and turned into lying hypocrites when we don't understand these two factual states with us, of GOOD and also of EVIL. And yes, these are and will remain "in conflict," "contentions" and "controversies." Most of the controversies in christian sects arises from the good trying to avoid the evil, rather than simply understanding, and being HONEST about this internal reality.

In reality it is a GOOD thing for God to be against evil, for us. But it is a bad thing when we understand the implications of that, theologically. IF God is against "evil present" then God in Christ is NOT ONLY FOR US.

And everyone who sees this, will say OH NO! Rather than AMEN.

Personally I've reconciled the fact that God IS against the evil present with me. And I take the consequences in silence, because I am rather helpless and disarmed. The ONLY place remaining for me to stand, is upon HIS GRACE AND MERCY.

But this will not avoid the "chastisements" and "tribulations" that God has EVERY RIGHT to impose on me, because of "evil present" with me. And THESE I can also attest to, as a REALITY of faith.

Believers in truth, will experience the other side of Gods Sovereignty, in and by adversity. It's not an "all good dog" world, in faith.

This picture is given here, though today, there are few that see it for themselves. IT is an internal picture, of both good and evil, growing "together" in the same ground, the same body of earth, we, SAVED by Grace, walking in His Mercy, doing GOOD, and our flesh, with evil present/indwelling sin, in condemnation.

Matthew 13:
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Many read the above and think it's about them, the WHEAT only, and "other people" the tare. That is the sight that LIES and HYPOCRISY imposes on them.

It's about 'us' and the 'evil present' with us. That will be CUT OFF prior to being taken to His BARN OF HEAVEN.

And yes, our "evil present" is from our enemy, not a produce of ourselves as Gods children. But there, nevertheless. Paul again pinpoints this, identifying that the 'sin' that dwelt in his own flesh was "no more I" twice in Romans 7:17 & 19. This shows it to be "foreign" to Gods children. "No more I."

Very good instruction my friend. I have studied and pondered Romans 7 and I find your comments to be "right On!! I especially liked this....

n my sight this "law" eliminates any legitimate claims of "works salvation" or "moral theology" proponents. They refuse to look at Paul's "internal" reality quotient, quite falsely thinking that in doing good and being good, that hard fact of "law" of "evil being present" is eliminated. It isn't eliminated.

This quote of yours is so true and important because, as a Pastor, I have had to deal with sinners who didn't think that they were sinners. Something like nice little old ladies. O my, try telling a nice little old lady that she's a sinner, get ready for a pocket book up side of your head.

 

[Chopper]

Amen, hardship keeps us God-dependent and growing in the faith, and His chastisement keeps us from excessive straying.

Though the sinful nature (evil) is nothing but enmity with God and those born again.

God be blessed!

You just wrote a "Home Run" statement that everyone should take to heart and remember the next time a trial or test comes their way....

Amen, hardship keeps us God-dependent and growing in the faith, and His chastisement keeps us from excessive straying.