Bible Study Biblical role of an Elder

[stovebolts]

all,
I would like to follow a study on the active role of an Elder.
Sometimes we get taught the wrong things, and I want to read the thoughts and ideas of others and bounce it across what I think I know.

I'm basically looking for a sanity check and the insight of others.

 

[Knotical]

I would first start with 1 Timothy 3. This is where God lays out the requirements for an elder.

 

[stovebolts]

Sounds like a great place to start.
Please proceed.

 

[Eugene]

I would like to follow a study on the active role of an Elder.

Good to see you Brother StoveBolts. The following excerpts are pasted from a study “Paul’s letters to Timothy” at http://www.gracegod.com/Study Books/Timothy.pdf

Once there copying and pasting any portion of the following portions will take you to the entire context.

I TIMOTHY - CHAPTER THREE
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work" - I Timothy 3:1. This chapter deals with bishops and deacons and their wives, and closes with "the mystery of godliness." The Greek word rendered "office of a bishop" is "episkopes," which means "overseership" or "bishopric." From this responsible office, Judas fell by transgression - Acts 1:20, 25. Bishopric and apostleship were somewhat similar in their scope, except that the former had more of a local application than the latter.

Should anyone entertain a desire to be bishop or elder? Paul's words here indicate that he may. However, this office is no ordinary matter. Paul calls it a "work." This agrees with Jesus' words, "Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that He will send forth labourers into His harvest" - Matthew 9:38. Many people imagine that the Gospel ministry is an easy snap in which there is nothing to do but read the Bible, and talk from a pulpit a few times a week, and visit the parishioners, and enjoy fat meals the meantime. But our Lord called it a "harvest" which implies toil, hardship, heat, and great weariness. A true bishop cannot select his field. He must accept the one to which "the Lord of the harvest" appoints him.

SIXTEEN QUALIFICATIONS
Who is able to answer to the sixteen points of fitness for such a solemn charge? Our sufficiency must be of God - II Corinthians 3:5. The first qualification named is “blamelessness.” The last one is good domestic rulership. One is considered blameless if he fulfills all the other fifteen. The phrase, "husband of one wife," does not mean that he must be married; but, if married, he should not be a polygamist. One wife is enough for any man, and especially for a Gospel minister. "Vigilant," watchful. This is the controlling meaning of the word "bishop" or "overseer." He is not to watch people's faults, or be suspicious; but he is to protect his flock from evil doctrines, and watch for opportunities to do good. "Sober," literally, "free from wine." He is not morbid, nor affectedly pious, bordering on grouchiness and self-righteousness; but, he is serious, weighty, bearing a sense of responsibility, remembering that he is God's servant and should maintain the dignity and honor of his office. "Of good behavior." These qualities overlap one another and explain one another. A bishop or elder cannot flirt with the other sex, nor conduct himself unseemly in any manner. He should be an example of good conduct - 4:12. "Given to hospitality." If he has no spare bed, at least express his regret; and be willing to share his scant provisions with another. "Apt to teach." This is the seventh item of the first group of finesses. It is a very important item, which most preachers lack. They can entertain by flatteries, and make-believe pleasantness, and affected facial expressions, and business bows; but, being ignorant of God's chart and compass, they cannot instruct the ignorant. What a travesty! How the dignity of the pulpit is pulled down on a level with the lecture and political platform. What a ridiculous representation of Christ; how unlike Him and unworthy of Him. "Not given to wine." Literally, he is not drunken with wine, nor quarrelsome over the wine cup. No. Our only intoxication should be the fullness of the Holy Spirit. "No striker." That is, he is not a smiter, pugnacious, or quarrelsome. "Not a brawler." He is not contentious. "Not covetous." He is not a lover of money. "The love of money is the root of all evil"; therefore, these many cautions concerning it. Satan has no more subtle snare for ministers than money. It has tied the tongues of many of them, and shorn them of spiritual power. It induces many to withhold much of the Truth.

And it continues if you’re still interested.

 

[Christ_empowered]

should women be elders?

 

[Eugene]

.

should women be elders?

Also in "Paul's letters to Timothy" at http://www.gracegod.com/Study Books/Timothy.pdf
WOMAN'S FITNESS
"Even so must their wives be grave, not standerers, sober, faithful in all things" - 3:11. The qualifications of a bishop's wife cannot be less, as to character, than those of the bishop himself; but here four points are emphasized particularly. On the items, "grave" and "sober," see the foregoing remarks. The word "slanderer" means "a devil." Jesus called Judas Iscariot a devil. The original word "diabolos" means "hurling over" or "through"; whence it means "a slanderer," "a false accuser." "Ho diabolos" means "the slanderer," "the devil." Does a minister's wife need such an exhortation? The Holy Spirit knew beforehand how bitter and destructive some tongues might be. No sweetness can compare with the tongue of a woman; but, also, no tongue can be more calumnious and ruinous than that of a woman. She can tear down her husband's work faster than he built it up. Eve was ordained to be a "help meet for him (Adam)." This is still her first and highest calling. She is not to be a help-eat, or help-defeat, but a suitable aid to the man. Most women have it in their power to make Christian gentlemen of their husbands. Woman is a type of the Bride company. Indeed, such saints make up the Bride of Christ, and become His most efficient helpers in accomplishing His sublime purpose in this age and for the ages to come. Is it accidental, that Paul should refer to Phoebe and Priscilla and other women who were "helpers" or "fellow labourers" in the Gospel - Romans 16:2, 3 and Philippians 4:3. Let every minister's wife strive to be a Scriptural help by making herself indispensable to him; and let him not curb or quell her gifts and ability. "For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree," or a step, a rank - 3:13. They thus qualify for a more responsible position. They acquire "great boldness in the faith," by which their usefulness is enlarged. Deacons may become elders, or bishops. "A man's gift maketh room for him" - Proverbs 18:16.

 

[stovebolts]

Thank you Eugene.

 

[Christ_empowered]

thanks. My mother was briefly an elder, and now that I'm Born Again, I often wonder if perhaps...that was "progressive," but not based on sound doctrine or Scripture.

 

[Eugene]

My mother was briefly an elder, and now that I'm Born Again, I often wonder if perhaps...that was "progressive," but not based on sound doctrine or Scripture.

Brother Christ_empowered, concerning your mother’s role in church you may want to read the following article. Although I’m sure many ministries that may not follow sound doctrine, it is their heart that serves God. Be thankful of her ties to Christ, Jesus being the One that will make things work together for good to her and others He may allow her to help.
Phoebe
http://www.gracegod.com/pamphlet_and_articles/pamphlets/Phoebe.pdf

These verses show the intent of the heart as the important thing, and God receives them.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Paul sure had no problem using the talent of women as a deacon, helpers, or servants.
Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
Rom 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
Rom 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

 

[Knotical]

Paul sure had no problem using the talent of women as a deacon, helpers, or servants.
Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
Rom 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
Rom 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

This reference to Pheobe is not an endorsement for women as deacons, considering later in 1 Timothy Paul lays out the requirements for elders and deacons. They must be the husband of one wife, among other things.

Yes, women have roles within the church, but they do not include being an elder (including teaching elder/pastor) or deacon.

 

[Deborah13]

1Ti 3:8 Ministrants--in like manner grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not given to filthy lucre,
1Ti 3:9 having the secret of the faith in a pure conscience,
1Ti 3:10 and let these also first be proved, then let them minister, being unblameable.
1Ti 3:11 Women--in like manner grave, not false accusers, vigilant, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Ministrants--let them be of one wife husbands; the children leading well, and their own houses,
1Ti 3:13 for those who did minister well a good step to themselves do acquire, and much boldness in faith that is in Christ Jesus.

From an article from the Grace to You, John MacArthur.
In 1 Timothy 3:11, Paul declares that “women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.” Some argue that he is referring to wives of deacons, rather than to an office of women deacons. But it makes no sense that high standards would be specified for the wives of deacons but not for wives of overseers (or bishops, who are also called elders, see Titus 1:5), whose qualifications he has just given in verses 1–7. In this context (3:1–10, 12–13), the office of deaconess is clearly implied. The “likewise” in verse 11 ties the qualifications of these women to those already given for the offices of overseer and deacon. In verse 11, Paul did not refer to those women as deaconesses because diakonos has no feminine form.
http://www.gty.org/resources/bible-qna/BQ060713/was-phoebe-a-deaconess

 

[OzSpen]

should women be elders?

CE,
Examine these two translations of 1 Tim 3:11,

• 'In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything' (1 Tim 3:11 NIV).
• 'Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things' (1 Tim 3:11 ESV).

Either of these translations could be correct because the Greek word used is gune, which means 'woman' or 'wife'. The NIV margin has the translation of 'deaconess' because there was no specific Greek word for deaconess.

However, 1 Tim 3:11 is dealing with diakonos (deacon/servant). How does that relate to our topic of elder? Consider these contextual details from 1 Tim 3 and other related Scriptures:

• In I Tim 3:1-7, it refers to a group called episkopoi = overseers/ bishops (vv. 1-2).
• Paul in 1 Tim 3: 8-13 discusses a group called diakonoi = servants/deacons" (3:8). Note in v. 11 that this could include women.
  
• If we go outside of 1 Tim 3, there is a possibility that the term episkopoi = overseers and diakonoi = deacons may include a broader category of presbyteroi = elders. In Acts 20:17, 28 and Titus 1:5, 7 there are indications that episkopoi (overseers, Acts 20:28; Titus 1:7) and presbyteroi = elders (Acts 20:17; Titus 1:5) have some relationship to each other and are interchangeable - partially.
• Therefore, there could be evidence here that the women of 1 Tim 3:11 (NIV) could be included in the overall category of elders because of the interchangeability of the Greek words used.

I am only making this as a suggestion, but there seems to be some biblical evidence to support it.

Oz

 

[stovebolts]

All good stuff, thank you everyone so far.

What are your thoughts on how an Elder should interact with the congregation?
How should an Elder deal with issues inside the congregation?

 

[JLB]

thanks. My mother was briefly an elder, and now that I'm Born Again, I often wonder if perhaps...that was "progressive," but not based on sound doctrine or Scripture.

This, to me shows that John recognized a women in a role of leadership, in my opinion.



1 The Elder,

To the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all those who have known the truth, 2 because of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:

3 Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

4 I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth, as we received commandment from the Father. 5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another.6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. 2 John 1-6

 

[JohnDB]

Today's modern church with small group studies and a big sanctuary with sermons by the same preacher and music has little resemblance to the early church that practiced something akin to synagogue.

A "Sunday School teacher" would be considered higher on the food chain than an elder or bishop. Just the reverse is true today.
Where yawl are trying to figure out if someone is opposed to women in leadership the end result is the same anyway so what difference does it matter?
The titles are meaningless if they are not placed on people in a church built and run much like the early church was. So if the titles are meaningless then the qualifications are as well.

 

[Eugene]

.
Another good question. Consider the qualifications of an elder, presbyter or lay leadership and the feminine word succorer used as an assistance there were to help.

In the assembly I attend my dear friend and appointed elder Brother McLamb till he died visited the sick, accompanied our prison pastor on his preaching trips, took me to the doctor when I needed a driver. He knew the bible, was quick to pray for all in their time of need, and even participated in baptisms, communions, and as for dinners at the church: he ate.

 

[stovebolts]

Thanks Eugene and Jon I appreciate your comments and thoughts .
Adam Clark makes a commentary on Matthew 18 where they're talking about issues in the congregation and he makes the point that "bring it to the church" could be taken as bring it to the elders or if that doesn't work to the entire congregation.

What do both of you think on that idea and also, if bring it to the church means take your issue to the elders, how should the Elders respond to the issue?

Should one elder suffice to resolve an issue or do you think it would be more biblical for all of the elders to discuss the issue and based on their pooled resources properly discern the situation and reply as one united voice ?

 

[Deborah13]

Thanks Eugene and Jon I appreciate your comments and thoughts .
Adam Clark makes a commentary on Matthew 18 where they're talking about issues in the congregation and he makes the point that "bring it to the church" could be taken as bring it to the elders or if that doesn't work to the entire congregation.

What do both of you think on that idea and also, if bring it to the church means take your issue to the elders, how should the Elders respond to the issue?

Should one elder suffice to resolve an issue or do you think it would be more biblical for all of the elders to discuss the issue and based on their pooled resources properly discern the situation and reply as one united voice ?

If I may suggest, it should be done as it was when James and the others listened to Peter and Paul about what should be required of the Gentile believers. I think they discussed it among all of them, rather like a counsel, and then prayed for the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Eugene]

What do both of you think on that idea and also, if bring it to the church means take your issue to the elders, how should the Elders respond to the issue?

Exo 18:13 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening. I will also add that I like the idea of Deborah13 suggesting James. Peter and Paul taking counsel, and though they were all pastors as it were, we too are all brethren apt to help one another; the elders especially so in their gifts.

Exo 18:14 And when Moses' father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even?
Exo 18:15 And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God:
Exo 18:16 When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws.
Exo 18:17 And Moses' father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good.
Exo 18:18 Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone.

 

[stovebolts]

Thank you Deborah13 and Eugene

Very good points. I appreciate your input