smaller
Member
I've seen no mention of what kind of questions or judging is being requested.
If there are issues between believers, the dictate is this: be defrauded. take wrongs. move on. 1 Cor. 6:7
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Bible Study Biblical role of an Elder
- Thread starter stovebolts
- Start date
If there are issues between believers, the dictate is this: be defrauded. take wrongs. move on. 1 Cor. 6:7
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Another good question. Consider the qualifications of an elder, presbyter or lay leadership and the feminine word succorer used as an assistance there were to help.
In the assembly I attend my dear friend and appointed elder Brother McLamb till he died visited the sick, accompanied our prison pastor on his preaching trips, took me to the doctor when I needed a driver. He knew the bible, was quick to pray for all in their time of need, and even participated in baptisms, communions, and as for dinners at the church: he ate.
That's awesome. Amen.
Sadly today, Pastor's and Bishop's wouldn't qualify as an elder or deacon in the early Church.
JLB
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 5:4-5
JLB
stovebolts
Member
I'll make it simple.
I was taught that We respect the Elders and as a member of the church, we submit to their wisdom on matters brought to them.
I was under the impression that Elders were to be Godly men, well versed in the scriptures and thus, able to make Godly decisions.
We see in scripture that the accused is always present when judgment is served and as in the case of the adulteress, since no male was brought forth (as they were caught in the act), the hearing could not proceed. Thus, those trying to persecute were in clear violation and as such, were guilty of their own sin in this matter.
Knowing this, is it scriptural for an Elder to cast judgment without consulting the parties accused. Furthermore, is it scriptural for an Elder to give harsh direction in a matter that has the potential to tear a family apart without first consulting with the Eldership.
This is the underlying intent of this study for me.
It is good to read the verses in Timothy on the qualifications of an Elder while reading it by way of putting flesh, and real life situations around those verses.
In essence, when we read scripture, it conjures expectations on how an Elder should conduct himself, and his judgment should be predictable according to biblical principals.
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smaller
Member
I would agree with your assessment. Do we really need an elder to advise us that God in Christ is against sin and evil? I'd suggest not. If an elder hasn't figured that much out probably no business in that seat.
IF an elder stuck his nose in the middle of a church families issues with sin and evil, he (or she) is likely to get his nose burned in many ways, if trying to make the congregation or congregants "sinless." It won't happen and can't happen.
stovebolts
Member
I see a lot of that in the church. What I mean is there are many who get fixate on what others are doing wrong and are quick to condem, or give bad advise. I believe the Elders should be above this, and when it comes to family matters, it's not a black and white matter of who's right and who's wrong, but rather it's a mission on how to help that family stay together, and grow toward Christ.
that is what my mind tells me to expect anyway. I'm looking for biblical support and if it's not supported, then I need to shape my thoughts to be in line with Gods word.
Thanks
AirDancer
Member
It would be lovely if church elders and deacons could be above giving bad advice or petty squabbles. However, in some churches, internal politics hold higher influence than Biblical principles.
smaller
Member
That may be idealistic. I've seen more than a few believers on their ways to divorce where one of the parties has already long departed through infidelity or other problems that were long in the making between them both that might not include infidelity, and are, as you correctly observe, both parties faults. Could be any vast amounts of reasons that an elder will never know, nor may they even want to know.
I've seen one of the parties, trying to "stand" on Gods Promises to keep them together, work the elders for help to make the other party behave and return, etc etc. It seldom works out. There were perhaps too many accumulated turning points already in play in the relationship that got them to that point in the first place. It's a sad thing to witness.
There are other things that can cause harm to family relationships such as the death of a family member, which grief can make lasting scars of various sorts in all the family members. A void is made, guilt, remorse, second guessing, the futility of life. All of these most of us go through even with deaths of people we know. But within a family these are even more difficult to get through. The reality is you never really do get through it. It is a scar that only time can heal, but a scar nevertheless. Some draw closer and some move away from each other from the mutually experienced pains, which pain, by nature, we seek to avoid and maybe not even realizing it.
Add to the list financial problems, a huge one. Health issues. On and on it goes.
An elder can NOT control everything that happens in the congregants lives. It's not even remotely possible.
I've seen long time believing married friends, where one of them was lying in bed, dying a long slow death by cancer, and the other was shopping for a replacement before the spouse was gone. It's just sad to watch such suffering that both parties go through, especially when you know what the shopper is up to and you're comforting the one lying in bed dying, trying to hold on to their lives with everything they can muster. To even speak what is going on to the dying, I could not do. I simply can not relate to such things but I've stood in those shoes. It causes me to fear that I would land in the same space if the shoe was on my foot.
Don't know what it is that you are looking for. I've had opportunity to be an elder, more than once, and thumbed it down, in part because of the above. Just not interested in the pain.
There is always a question with any congregation. IS God in Christ with them all? Then prove it, individually and collectively. My personal experiences with congregations is that they are filled with all kinds of issues, a lot of which make me personally sick to my stomach. They couldn't love one another if their lives depended on it.
So, IF loving one another is at the top of the elders personal list, they'd probably be a good elder. Love is the glue that binds, and the only thing that counts. Gal. 5:6. This can be a hard place to find, when seated in a position of authority.
I had to leave off some old holiness friends who were sincere deeply motivated for Christ believers, as they progressively hardened over their leading believing lives in perpetual adverse judgments, to the point where nobody could please them for any reasons. This too is sad to observe. But I've seen it countless times. Some scraggly old authority who's ready to damn to hell everyone and anyone for not bowing down to "their vision." These make me the sickest to my stomach. I cut them off from my life.
In retrospect, having believed for most of my adult life, I can say today why all this happens from a scriptural perspective. But to observe the reality of it from a scriptural perspective won't change why it all happens or stop it from happening.
The obligation and pleasure of faith eventually falls to the individual to "walk in." No one else can live another person's life of faith in Christ. That's believer reality, 101.
Can't tell you how many times I've seen a trainwreck coming, warned, advised why it's happening and what's going to happen, and it often just speeds up the train. It's very frustrating. But my wife and I are always available to help pick up the pieces and help clean up the mess, whether we're in a seat of authority or not. Our obligations haven't changed.
The "rule" is so simple. But it's a hard place to find.
John 15:12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
I believe your thinking is inline with what Paul is trying to convey, to those people who aspire to be in a position of leadership over others.
...for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God? 1 Timothy 3:5
Taking care of a Church family must find it's foundation in having a good track record of taking care of one's own family.
8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. 10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. 11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 3:8-13
JLB