Biden campaigns for Trump

[Hopeful 2]

What do Christians cited from the OT....
Sorry, auto correct is just soooooo helpful.

Auto correct didn't catch the errant "d" in cite"d".

 

[Riven]

I miss Hitch everyday. I miss more the liberals who were willing to stand up to this barbaric religion that fancies itself the total solution for everyone's problems.

What we are left with today, are bunch of weak twisted liberals in name only, who world rather kowtow to Islam while attacking Christianity. Because they know it's safe to attack Christianity. They know that the Christians aren't going to try to behead them for blaspheming God.

And you'll notice that they always do it within the safety of western countries that are majority Christian. Never do you see these so-called liberals go to any Islamic country to preach liberal values. Why? Because they know that they would be killed by the adherents of the religion that they defend on a regular basis.

Furthermore, I don't require anyone's permission to criticize Islam. I don't have to discuss Christianity at all within the context of discussing Islamic precepts. This knee-jerk reaction, "But what about Christianity?!", is really just classic whataboutism.

The term "islamophobia" is a completely meaningless and made up term that's used to silence dissent. An admittedly effective method of browbeating weaker minded individuals into submission. You'll notice that there's no term for "Christian phobia" or a phobia for any other religion. Just this one. Which should give you a hint of the insidious and pernicious nature of this ideology.

 

[GodsGrace]

Auto correct didn't catch the errant "d" in cite"d".

LOL
My bad.
I tried to correct autocorrect.
I'm just as bad.

 

[Uncle J]

I agree.


Which is absurd given that Christianity is founded on the concept of a trinity. When Jesus was up on the cross, he prayed to God the father. If he were God and there was only God in the singular sense, well that would be quite odd, wouldn't it?


We have that in common.


No. But where is it said in the OT that Jesus was the one doing these things? I think it is quite clear that the God of the OT is very much a Jewish war god.


No. But your entire argument is predicated on the idea that Jesus and the God of the OT are the same. Even if they are the same, the NT supersedes the OT in it's authority. That's why Christians dont have to follow Jewish law.

Yep, as I've said many times before Christianity doesn't make sense to me. I can't tell you how many times a Christian has insisted to me that Jesus and God are the same entity. That's why they ask Jesus for forgiveness, pray to Jesus, etc.

But we're getting off track here. I'm not interested in dissecting Christianity or Islam, debating their logic, or anything like that.

The point is quite simple (and I've said it before).....the same justifications you give for why we should ban Muslims from the US also apply to Christians. Both have been cited as justification for terrorist attacks, believers in both have done terrible things in the US, both of their holy books have very violent passages in them, both have outdated and oppressive mandates, both have passages where their god says to kill unbelievers.

And yes, both of their holy books also have passages calling for peace and love towards others.

So as with the last time you and I went around about this, don't get the impression that I'm defending either religion. I think they're both ridiculous and nonsensical. My focus is on the double standard you employ to justify being exceptionally cruel to Muslims while turning a blind eye to the actions of Christians.

 

[Riven]

So as with the last time you and I went around about this, don't get the impression that I'm defending either religion. I think they're both ridiculous and nonsensical.

But you certainly have a preference, and I'm afraid you don't understand the significance of it all. For example, if either of us were born in an Islamic country, and forced to live under sharia, would we be able to espouse these views without significant risk to our well being. The honest answer is no. We would be killed because the penalty for apostasy in the Islamic faith is death.

So, you can mock Christianity and call it ridiculous. But just be aware of the fact that the only reason you can do that is because you live in majority Christian country, as opposed to a majority Islamic country.

My focus is on the double standard you employ to justify being exceptionally cruel to Muslims while turning a blind eye to the actions of Christians.

You refuse to accept that Christians don't follow the law of the Old Testament. That's why you think I'm applying a double standard.

 

[Uncle J]

But you certainly have a preference

Not at all.

For example, if either of us were born in an Islamic country, and forced to live under sharia, would we be able to espouse these views without significant risk to our well being. The honest answer is no. We would be killed because the penalty for apostasy in the Islamic faith is death.

So, you can mock Christianity and call it ridiculous. But just be aware of the fact that the only reason you can do that is because you live in majority Christian country, as opposed to a majority Islamic country.

That's so historically ignorant, it's hard to describe.

First, I'm free to criticize both religions because I live in a secular country that was specifically set up to allow for free speech and freedom of (and from) religion, not because it's majority Christian.

You're also apparently unaware of all the cases in our history where when Christians had governmental control, they severely persecuted non-Christians and even Christians who weren't of the right type. Heck, there are people still alive today who were persecuted by Christians for various reasons (being black, marrying outside their race, being queer, being Jewish).

You refuse to accept that Christians don't follow the law of the Old Testament. That's why you think I'm applying a double standard.

Again, some specifically cite the OT to justify their actions, such as persecuting and even killing gay people. If you've never seen Christians do that, I don't know what else to say.

I am curious about one thing though.....exactly how did you come to be such an expert in Islam?

 

[Riven]

First, I'm free to criticize both religions because I live in a secular country that was specifically set up to allow for free speech and freedom of (and from) religion, not because it's majority Christian.

I'm speaking of values and culture. America in that sense, is a Christian nation. That is how it will be until Christians are no longer the majority.

You're also apparently unaware of all the cases in our history where when Christians had governmental control, they severely persecuted non-Christians and even Christians who weren't of the right type. Heck, there are people still alive today who were persecuted by Christians for various reasons (being black, marrying outside their race, being queer, being Jewish).

I am aware of it. But I am focused on the present.

I am curious about one thing though.....exactly how did you come to be such an expert in Islam?

Who says I'm an expert? I'm just a guy on the internet.

 

[Uncle J]

I'm speaking of values and culture. America in that sense, is a Christian nation. That is how it will be until Christians are no longer the majority.

And in that time when Christians ran things we've had institutionalized genocide, slavery, racism, oppression of women, among other things.

I am aware of it. But I am focused on the present.

No you're not. If you were, you'd be more concerned about how the vast majority of terrorist attacks here have been committed by right-wingers.

Who says I'm an expert? I'm just a guy on the internet.

Good to know.

 

[Riven]

And in that time when Christians ran things we've had institutionalized genocide, slavery, racism, oppression of women, among other things.

True enough.

No you're not. If you were, you'd be more concerned about how the vast majority of terrorist attacks here have been committed by right-wingers.

Hmm... you could be right about that.

Good to know.

What? It isn't noted? I'm insulted.

 

[Corn Pop]

And in that time when Christians ran things we've had institutionalized genocide, slavery, racism, oppression of women, among other things.

But thats obviously not true Christianity but just power tripping control freaks out for there own gain because genocide, slavery, racism, and opression of women is not biblical christian teachings.


Its like some people get judged for being a white christian male these days because of some past institutionalised bs they took no part in and had nothing to do with, yet people turn a blind eye to what goes on in many Islamic countries towards minorities, and its the same thing, a muslim should not get judged for other muslims actions. People need to stop generalising.

There is always a minority of racists and extremists but it dont mean they represent everyone else with the same identity.

 

[Corn Pop]

Its disgusting when people get judged based on identity. Everyone is born equally and are who they are regardless of there ethnicity or there skin color. Jesus does not discriminate towards anyone because of there skin color or ethnicity.

 

[Corn Pop]

And people get brianwashed and indocrinated. If i was raised in an Islamic country the odds are i would probably be a muslim.

 

[Corn Pop]

The thing is with many Islamic countries musl8ms are afraid or even not allowed to question there faith, there is alot of pressure so once one has said the shahada to declair there faith its not easy to get out, especially when in some places the penalty for apostacy is death, and a little lighter than that maybe there family will just disown them. Kind of like north korean styles to keep everyone praising the Leader without critisism.

Its still stone age minorities hiding in the closet. I mean there is no open gayness in dominant Islam and women dont really get any say, and there can be is a little bit of tolerance towards jews and christians if they stick to the rules.

 

[Corn Pop]

Like any control and power its all fear based.

 

[Corn Pop]

In true Christianity a ethnic jew, a ethnic white, a ethnic black, a ethnic asian, and whoever else in the world and who comes to the Lord have fellowship together. There is no racism or discrimination in Christs Church everyone are family and brothers united as one in Christ. There is no segregation.

 

[Corn Pop]

There is a conflict going on and you have to ask the question why no neighbouring Islamic countries will take in there fellow muslim brothers and sisters from gaza when they hungry and some need seek some refuge, they somehow expected to flee thousands of miles away to such a great nation like the USA and if the USA dont take them somehow the USA is racist while other countries barely accept any refugees.

 

[Uncle J]

But thats obviously not true Christianity but just power tripping control freaks out for there own gain because genocide, slavery, racism, and opression of women is not biblical christian teachings.

I don't know how, since the Bible contains all of those things.

Its like some people get judged for being a white christian male these days because of some past institutionalised bs they took no part in and had nothing to do with, yet people turn a blind eye to what goes on in many Islamic countries towards minorities, and its the same thing, a muslim should not get judged for other muslims actions. People need to stop generalising.

There is always a minority of racists and extremists but it dont mean they represent everyone else with the same identity.

Agreed. Very well said.

 

[Corn Pop]

I don't know how, since the Bible contains all of those things

Show me where under the life and teachings of Jesus Christ where any of those things are accepted?.

And depends how one defines the word slavery, the word servant is a lighter word because most see the word slavery as discrimination based on race with bad treatment towards them and no reward.

Anyone who works for someone else and has a job is someone elses servant.

 

[Corn Pop]

Like a wealthy billionaire who has a big flash hotel and he has employees who go there day after day and clean the rooms and make the beds why they playing golf.

In biblical text that would be called a master and there servants, but these days we call it an employer and there employees.

As Paul told the servants to obey and respect there master and for the master to respect there servants and not treat them badly as God does not favour.

 

[Corn Pop]

What about oppression of women?. There is no opression in the christian teachings. Only in the church where a man leads the family yet each has a valuable role and both are to be equally respected as God does not favour.

Its kind of natural that a man provides and protects his family. I mean unless in the stone age in times of trouble when invaded the man could stay home and the women could go out and try fight ruthless savages 100 fold there strength claiming equal womens rights.