CAN A MAN RAPE HIS WIFE?

[jaybo]

Where are these women?
What i see is mothers allowing their daughters to leave the house with the tramp look. Its fashionable these days.

And if such a mother exists then the daughter should not marry. Unless she met up with a man that also believes as the daughter does.

When I was in Italy I saw very few, if any, girls dressed "with the tramp look". Italy is very fashion-conscious.

 

[GodsGrace]

When I was in Italy I saw very few, if any, girls dressed "with the tramp look". Italy is very fashion-conscious.

You were in Firenze. High fashion

I don't mean ALL the girls.
My 20 year old granddaughter is very conservative.

 

[D-D-W]

I understand that people don’t always talk about it, but as far as I know, not because it is not allowed. If this is not discussed, at least from a Christian perspective, it should be IMPLIED that both agreed to being sex partners as well. This is the easiest and only way to avoid sexual immorality.

The church (some might say cult) I attended in college and where my wife and I got married did not allow any talk of sex until AFTER a couple got married.

They also taught that until you said "I Do," you were to be sexually like a 5 year old. No desires, no opinions, no curiosity, no urges, and no physical responses.
All of that changes magically when "I now pronounce you husband and wife" was said.

They would routinely come around and ask you if you had discussed anything to do with sex and if the answer was yes, they (church leaders) would nullify the engagement and instruct you to never see each other again. If you were unable to do that, they would move one of you to another state, sometimes clear to the other side of the country.

 

[D-D-W]

What kind of bizarre example is that???

My life.

 

[Daniel in the Lions’ Den]

Then the marriage is not a true marriage and can be annulled.

The church (some might say cult) I attended in college and where my wife and I got married did not allow any talk of sex until AFTER a couple got married.

They also taught that until you said "I Do," you were to be sexually like a 5 year old. No desires, no opinions, no curiosity, no urges, and no physical responses.
All of that changes magically when "I now pronounce you husband and wife" was said.

They would routinely come around and ask you if you had discussed anything to do with sex and if the answer was yes, they (church leaders) would nullify the engagement and instruct you to never see each other again. If you were unable to do that, they would move one of you to another state, sometimes clear to the other side of the country.

Does that church still exist? How can someone say a subject is taboo if the Bible talks about it—and sometimes in great details? If you have Youversion on your phone, do a Bible search on relationships, and you will see the number of verses popping up, including on sexual relationships. If God has something to say about it, church leaders should say, “This is what the Lord says…”

 

[jaybo]

The church (some might say cult) I attended in college and where my wife and I got married did not allow any talk of sex until AFTER a couple got married.

They also taught that until you said "I Do," you were to be sexually like a 5 year old. No desires, no opinions, no curiosity, no urges, and no physical responses.
All of that changes magically when "I now pronounce you husband and wife" was said.

They would routinely come around and ask you if you had discussed anything to do with sex and if the answer was yes, they (church leaders) would nullify the engagement and instruct you to never see each other again. If you were unable to do that, they would move one of you to another state, sometimes clear to the other side of the country.

That sounds very much like a true cult -- very rigid and dictatorial. How could they legally "nullify the engagement" and "move one of you to another state, sometimes clear to the other side of the country"?

My wife and I had objections to our proposed marriage, so we moved elsewhere and told them we were going to get married regardless of their objections. I guess after 53 years of marriage we were correct!

 

[D-D-W]

Does that church still exist?

Yes but in a very different form. They are now just a common generic pentecostal church. That whole network of congregations pretty much fell apart toward the end of the 1980s.

How can someone say a subject is taboo if the Bible talks about it—and sometimes in great details?

They were all in favor of talking about - AFTER you were married. They defined sinful lust (Matt 5) as any normal or natural desire that did not have an immediate means of satisfaction. So anything that could possibly cause arousal BEFORE the wedding was forbidden.

If you have Youversion on your phone, do a Bible search on relationships, and you will see the number of verses popping up, including on sexual relationships. If God has something to say about it, church leaders should say, “This is what the Lord says…”

Oh yes. I am quite aware.

 

[D-D-W]

That sounds very much like a true cult -- very rigid and dictatorial.

"True cult" comes in 2 forms - one from the Latin origin of the word cultus -a -um which means "hidden." There was nothing hidden in their teachings. Only a little in the practices. The other form is called "cult of personality" where there is some guru who interprets everything for you. That congregation did NOT meet that definition at all.

How could they legally "nullify the engagement" and "move one of you to another state, sometimes clear to the other side of the country"?

Depends on what you mean by "legally." NO - they did not kidnap you and transport you across state lines. What they did do was tell you to move, and you had to obey your leaders (Hebrews 13.17) or be out of God's will for your life. They moved entire congreations on occasion, mostly within the state; but on 2 occasions they moved congregations from Maine to Michigan and from central Illinois to Michigan. Many individuals (including mid level leaders) were moved from Michigan to Alabama, or California. As to nullifying engagements, a sister congregation in upstate New York nullified ALL EXTANT engagements in their congregation. I was single at the time and one guy in our house got a tearful call from his (now ex) fiancee who was in that congregation informing him of the situation. He was not allowed to go straighten it out.

My wife and I had objections to our proposed marriage, so we moved elsewhere and told them we were going to get married regardless of their objections. I guess after 53 years of marriage we were correct!

I knew a few couples that did that, but they were so convinced that in doing so they were in direct disobedience to God that their life in Christ never recovered.

 

[D-D-W]

They defined sinful lust (Matt 5) as any normal or natural desire that did not have an immediate means of satisfaction.

As a single guy, they had people routinely quiz you about erections, wet dreams and masturbation. The latter was always considered demonic possession. If deliverance ministry and prayer did not fix it, you were taken in front of the whole congregation and had your sins listed out for everyone to hear. Usually they left the congregation (and the Lord) rather than go thru that. It happened whether they were there or not.

It was all about shaming people into obedience.

Edited to add:

Much of that changed when they played Dr James Dobson's first video series "Focus on the Family," which later became the name of his ministry. He asked some very pointed questions on dealing with people's sexuality; and apparently they saw at least part of their error and publicly apologized forbidding masturbation. That took a lot of guts after the big deal they had made of it for years.

Of course that was a few months after I got married. Thanks a lot.
But I am sure it helped those teens and 20s who were coming up after me.

 

[Edward]

Sometimes it is not that simple.
Take the example of a woman who was taught from childhood by her mom that God hates sex, it was an invention of the devil and if you have anything to do with it, you will burn in hell for ever.
Oh - and God allows it ONLY when you are ready to be pregnant (but still does not like it).

Is it EVER ok to be persistent in that situation?

I don't know, I've never been in that situation. I went to a Christian school for awhile when I was growing up and there was more action there than in the public schools, lol. Those girls were agressive!

 

[Edward]

People get married for a variety of reasons, and for some sex is NOT on the list at all.

I'm sorry, why was she getting married again? If someone doesn't want to have sex and they would choose to be celibate, that's ok, they can do that, but then why get married? WHy have a husband with no family? Did no one tell the young girl that once they get married then traditionally, there is consumation of the marriage that night.

When the girl says I do, she says, I will. Or the wedding is Off!!

 

[D-D-W]

I'm sorry, why was she getting married again?

To escape a bad home life
To have someone to love her 24/7
To be a mom (even if it meant you had to grit your teeth and do the nasty)
Financial security

If someone doesn't want to have sex and they would choose to be celibate, that's ok, they can do that, but then why get married?

See above.

Did no one tell the young girl that once they get married then traditionally, there is consumation of the marriage that night.

Sex cannot be talked about, right?
It might make someone think about that sexual encounter, and that alone is sinful lust and fantasy.

 

[Edward]

Sex cannot be talked about, right?
It might make someone think about that sexual encounter, and that alone is sinful lust and fantasy.

Just when you think you've heard it all, wow. I think that's some form of extremeism and I would have prolly ran from it.

 

[Highway54]

I define it like you do.
That's why it cannot be by a husband.

I think you misunderstood me maam, I believe it could be by a husband, and that they should be held to account for it, depending upon the severity of it.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think you misunderstood me maam, I believe it could be by a husband, and that they should be held to account for it, depending upon the severity of it.

I understood you.
A husband cannot rape his wife.
I guess it depends what a person understands rape to be. To me it's extreme violence and violation of a person's body. Fear and terror are a part of this vicious act.

 

[D-D-W]

A husband cannot rape his wife.

IMO you are entirely wrong on this.

I guess it depends what a person understands rape to be. To me it's extreme violence and violation of a person's body. Fear and terror are a part of this vicious act.

And women do not suffer "extreme violence and violation of a person's body" at the hands of an abusive husband? It happens every day. Women DIE from domestic physical abuse at an alarming rate.

If it applies in physical abuse, why would it not apply in sexual abuse?

 

[GodsGrace]

IMO you are entirely wrong on this.

And women do not suffer "extreme violence and violation of a person's body" at the hands of an abusive husband? It happens every day. Women DIE from domestic physical abuse at an alarming rate.

If it applies in physical abuse, why would it not apply in sexual abuse?

We've already discussed this DDW.
I'm not one to go on forever except regarding soteriology.

If a woman stays in an abusive marriage, it is her CHOICE.

Women do not CHOOSE to be raped.

Rape is a serious, vicious act.
Please do not trivialize this criminal act.

 

[Edward]

IMO you are entirely wrong on this.

And women do not suffer "extreme violence and violation of a person's body" at the hands of an abusive husband? It happens every day. Women DIE from domestic physical abuse at an alarming rate.

If it applies in physical abuse, why would it not apply in sexual abuse?

(You're going to tell a woman how she should feel about being raped?! Lol!) Good luck with that.

We wasn't talking about abusive relationships. You make a very good case for that but more to the topic, Can a husband who is not otherwise abusive to his Wife in any way, he doesn't beat her, doesn't drink, doesn't cheat, loves his wife...That guy. If he comes to her seeking intimacy and she is being difficult for some womanly reason but is not otherwise sick or anything, so he has his way with her. She has said no but when he does anyway she bodily complys and he does not hurt her or beat her. Is that rape? By a husband?

No of course not. I admit, I was married for 26 years and I can remember several times over the years that I have done that very thing. She did not call the police on me or bring charges against me because I never abused her. How bad was it for her if she stayed with me for 26 years?

If you only want to talk about abusive relationships then is it ok to mention that women are not necessarily innocent victims and many of them use sex as a weapon against their husbands?

 

[jasonc]

We've already discussed this DDW.
I'm not one to go on forever except regarding soteriology.

If a woman stays in an abusive marriage, it is her CHOICE.

Women do not CHOOSE to be raped.

Rape is a serious, vicious act.
Please do not trivialize this criminal act.

As much as an addict chooses to die from nicotine,alcohol and other drugs

Most abused spouses were under a parent was abused .

They saw it as normal and we're never really challenged to change .

And often if it's physically it's also gonna include rape .let's just say I know more on that too.

Most as I said rape victims know their assailants .it's rarely some guy rushing them on the street and raping them .

 

[jasonc]

Fast Facts: Preventing Intimate Partner Violence |Violence Prevention|Injury Center|CDC

Adolescents and adults are often unaware that teens experience dating violence

www.cdc.gov