Contacting the blood of Christ.

[LovethroughDove]

The literal blood of Jesus is what opened my eyes. I was picturing him sitting down and someone filling a vile of his blood and then sending it over to a lab to have it processed. It comes back as literal Son of Man(human)/Son of God(divine). The biggest miracle ever!???

 

[Susannah]

Amen.

The blood of Christ is to the human being what the metamorphosis is to the caterpillar. It is the inevitable cycle of life. Without the blood of Christ there is no life.

 

[Susannah]

It seemed like a simple question.

I sense that you were about to tell me this was false doctrine. I am not ready to hear that as I'm very engrossed in this ideology right now. So I'm going to keep my feelings to myself for now. No offense was intended. I will say this. The Seventh Mansion is not a place; it's complete union with God.

 

[Hopeful]

Please read the context.
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Galatians 5:16-24
Again this the work of the Spirit and the believer walking in harmony to the Spirit's leading rather than yielding to the sinful desires of the flesh, which is a daily effort.

Something impossible to do when the flesh's death and burial were ONLY symbolic.

This has nothing to do with being baptized in water.

It does when you have faith baptism isn't just symbolic.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

JLB

Rom 8:9..."But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. "
As those who have only "symbolically" crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts still commit sin,
they are still in the flesh.

 

[Hopeful]

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:1-4

The newness of life involves the Holy Spirit leading us to walk according the Spirit; the desires of the Spirit, rather than the desires of the flesh.


What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16
We must not allow ourselves to become slaves of sin again, but enforce our the position of dominion we have in Christ over sin by reckoning ourselves dead to sin, in which we walk in the newness of life by the Spirit.
Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:11
This is done by the believer, in harmony with the power of the Spirit.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The end result of living our life in this way is eternal life.
Paul calls this reaping everlasting life, because we have sown to the Spirit; we have invested our time here on earth towards the things the Spirit desires for us to do.
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8
The context is inheriting the kingdom of God or not.

• It’s past tense to the end result of inheriting the kingdom of God.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:19-26
Do you understand when we “inherit the kingdom of God”?

Those who are Christ’s on that Day, have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
JLB

We can't act on dead passions and lusts, thanks be to God.

 

[JLB]

Something impossible to do when the flesh's death and burial were ONLY symbolic.

Water baptism is symbolic.


We don’t actually die, and are resurrected.

The resurrection takes place at HIs coming.



JLB

 

[JLB]

We can't act on dead passions and lusts, thanks be to God.

Which is why that we are instructed to put to death the deeds of the flesh, by the Spirit.

It’s up to us to sow to the Spirit, rather than sowing to the flesh.


This is our‘s to do or not to do daily.


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.
Galatians 6:7-10



JLB

 

[JLB]

Rom 8:9..."But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. "
As those who have only "symbolically" crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts still commit sin,
they are still in the flesh.

When we are water baptized we are united with Christ in the “likeness“ of His death and resurrection.

This is symbolic, not literal, which is why we are instructed to “reckon” ourselves dead to sin, and alive to Christ.


We are to consider, or suppose, or keep it in mind that we have died to sin, so we will act according to and and in harmony with the Spirit, to practice righteousness and love.

This is part of renewing our mind.


For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:5-11


Water baptism does not relieve us from the daily responsibility to walk according to the Spirit, in which we are led and guided by the Holy Spirit, rather than led and guided by the sinful desires of our flesh.


Which is why Paul gives us these instructions:


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Romans 6:12-13



What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16

We are to obey the Spirit within us, rather than the flesh with its lustful cravings of sin. We are to practice righteousness.


I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. Romans 6:19

• just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

This is what each Christian must actively do everyday.


This is why we have the Spirit.


Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?



JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

JLB my good brother in Christ.

For me, Acts 2:38 is the beginning point of MY ongoing "process of salvation" and is the foundation MY faith is built on, and where I receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit in "baptism, not when I believed.

Also for ME, the act of believing, is what led ME to wanting the completion of Christ in my life through baptism.
Mark 16:16, Jesus said, "He who has believed and has been baptized ( baptizeo - Greek for water immersion - NOT baptism of, or by, the Holy Spirit) shall be saved.

Again for me, believing wasn't where I was saved, or the process of salvation began, but without believing in my heart that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and my savior, I couldn't have gone on to be cleansed by His blood and washed clean by His blood, (1st John 1:7, "...the blood of Jesus Christ His Son, cleanses us from all sin). of my sins through baptism, and have my salvation process begin.
For me, baptism is where my process of salvation began, and everything mentioned here later, either began or happened after I was saved by His Blood at baptism


Believing, to me, is that point where God places a calling on our heart to respond to what we have been told about Christ, not where we are saved !!. It's, so to speak, that fork in the road moment when we are face to face with a choice brought to us by a SUPER NATURAL POWER.
John 6:44, Jesus said, " No one can come to me unless the Father who sent Me draws them"
Revelation 1:5, Jesus said, "To Him who loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood."

JLB, you shared with me your "Frustrations, when a certain brother here, takes each topic and uses it for His platform of views on Water baptism, so I APOLOGISE if all this is frustrating to you, but from my own viewpoint about all of scripture in the NT, water baptism is, for me, connected to so many parts of the scriptures.
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Here are some examples that for myself validate my initial answer and why.

Reconciled - 2nd Cor.5:18, "All of this is a gift from God who RECONCILED us to Himself through the BLOOD OF CHRIST."

Redeemed -1st Peter 1:18, "You were not REDEEMED with corruptible things, but with the precious BLOOD OF CHRIST."

Justified, Romans 5:9, "We have now been JUSTIFIED by HIS BLOOD."

Sanctified - Hebrews 13:12, "Therefore Jesus also, that He might "SANCTIFY" the people WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered outside the gate."

Atonement - Hebrews 5:9, "...be saved, only through the ATONING BLOOD of CHRIST."

Expiation - Colossians 2:13-14, "(13) "H made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, (14) having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of charges against us, bringing death, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, (Expiation), BY HIS BLOOD, having nailed it to the cross in Christ."

Propitiation - Romans 3:24-25, "..our redemption which is in Christ Jesus: whom God displayed publicly as a PROPITIATION in CHRISTS BLOOD.

Forgiveness - Rev. 1:5, Acts 2:38, "To Christ who loves us and has freed us from our sins, acts 2:38, BY HIS BLOOD - Rev. 1:5.

Saved - Hebrews 13:12, "And so Jesus suffered outside the city gate, to make the people holy (Sanctified, set apart, saved) through HIS OWN BLOOD.
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Again, this is all based on Romans 6:3, where we are baptized into Christ's death and come in contact with the blood of Christ's that SAVES US through baptism, not being saved through believing.
.
Believing is just a part of Gods process of calling us to salvation, and the rest of His calling us is fulfilled in our response through our acceptance of Christ in believing, and the completion of His plan for us being saved, beginning with baptism.

I know we see this differently, but God has called me to be an "APOLOGIST" using biblical exigeses, eschatology etomology, inductive and deductive study, and dividing Gods word accurately 2nd Tim. 2:15, and handling the word of truth as an unashamed workman, one who CONTENDS for the truth - Jude verse 3, irregardless of the consequences.

The word CONTEND in the Greek is a beautiful "word picture" word, agonizomai, which means to fight, struggle or strive, in it's context, FOR THE TRUTH.

It's where the English word " AGONIZE" comes from, and means that the APOLOGIST agonizes, struggles and strives in his heart over getting the truth across to all the people he LOVES - EVERYONE, and wants them to own the same truth in THEIR HEARTS!!!

It's not about being arrogant , egotistical, or being a know it all - IT"S ABOUT LOVE !!!

God bless us all as we "Strive" for the truth and endure this narrow path until the end.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[Susannah]

Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

As usual I have a different perspective when it comes to timing. The Holy Spirit did not come to me when I believed. I did not believe until after I met the Holy Spirit. That made my baptism more special; like a wedding. The bottom line was that I was a Doubting Thomas and needed a personal invitation. The invitation came in 1982 but it was half hearted. It only covered the God part.

I then God baptized and nothing happened so I remained an agnostic when it came to Christ. Church was not enough. The Bible was not enough. But prayer and medication and communion brought results. In 2015 the Holy Spirit came back and told me the truth about Christ. That he suffered on the cross for our sins and was resurrected. I was ecstatic. I asked what took God so long to tell me the full truth and he said he wanted me to help struggling agnostics and I had to be one to understand their yearning and fear of change. Then I wrote my book, The Art of Changing.

I believe that we are on different paths that cross one another now and then. We are on our way to a closer union with God, a marriage to Christ, and guidance and comfort by the Holy Spirt.

Because of my love of the Blood of Christ, he has never given up on me and I am grateful. I have suffered and grown closer to Christ as a result. I have lost interest in all material things except the ashes of my late husband, and I have been given a mission to help 85 orphans Kenya for the rest of my life.

My name is Susannah.
God bless you all.

P.S. I wrote this a few years ago . . .
After the Baptism

 

[Hopeful]

Water baptism is symbolic.
We don’t actually die, and are resurrected.

Then Rom 6:3-7 is wrong.
And so is Col 2:11-12.
Then we can't get rid of the old man and will continue to commit sin.
If the old man is still around we cannot be reborn of God's seed.
You have effectively removed a "brick" from the "wall" of salvation.

The resurrection takes place at His coming.

The final one does.

 

[Hopeful]

Which is why that we are instructed to put to death the deeds of the flesh, by the Spirit.

You didn't include the scrip' you refer to so I am going by Rom 8:13 and Col 3:5...
Actually we are instructed "to keep" the old man (and its actions) dead.

It’s up to us to sow to the Spirit, rather than sowing to the flesh.

An impossibility for those NOT walking in the Spirit INSTEAD of in the flesh. (Rom 8:1)

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.
Galatians 6:7-10

Amen to that.
My sins reaped death. (Rom 6:23)
I was payed that wage at my actual death with Christ...at my water immersion into His death.

 

[JLB]

For me, Acts 2:38 is the beginning point of MY ongoing "process of salvation"

Honestly I didnt think you were that old.

 

[JLB]

Then we can't get rid of the old man and will continue to commit sin.

We must by the Spirit, crucify our body of sin so that we live our life from the resourses of the new nature empowered by the Spirit, rather than the sin that dwells in our flesh.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Then Rom 6:3-7 is wrong.
And so is Col 2:11-12.
Then we can't get rid of the old man and will continue to commit sin.
If the old man is still around we cannot be reborn of God's seed.
You have effectively removed a "brick" from the "wall" of salvation.


The final one does.

Hopeful my brother.
Being that I'm a part of this conversation, could you please go into further explaination of what you mean, especially about the 2 verses you quoted.
I'd like to reply, as I'm sure others would like to also.

My name is OLIGOS

 

[JLB]

Amen to that.
My sins reaped death. (Rom 6:23)
I was payed that wage at my actual death with Christ...at my water immersion into His death.

Actually the death refers to eternal damnation in Romans 6:23

 

[Hopeful]

When we are water baptized we are united with Christ in the “likeness“ of His death and resurrection.
This is symbolic, not literal, which is why we are instructed to “reckon” ourselves dead to sin, and alive to Christ.

If it is only symbolic, so is your rebirth.

We are to consider, or suppose, or keep it in mind that we have died to sin, so we will act according to and and in harmony with the Spirit, to practice righteousness and love.
This is part of renewing our mind.

Where are all the "symbolically" dead to sin Christians?
Where are all the men who are only symbolically dead to sin?
Where are all the symbolical non-sinners?

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:5-11

How long have you been an ex-sinner?

Water baptism does not relieve us from the daily responsibility to walk according to the Spirit, in which we are led and guided by the Holy Spirit, rather than led and guided by the sinful desires of our flesh.

It doesn't "relieve us", it "enables" us to ignore/resist the memories of the now dead flesh.

Which is why Paul gives us these instructions:
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Romans 6:12-13

Can the "symbolically" dead obey that command 100% ?

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16
We are to obey the Spirit within us, rather than the flesh with its lustful cravings of sin. We are to practice righteousness.
I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. Romans 6:19

• just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
• This is what each Christian must actively do everyday.

This is why we have the Spirit.

Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

Yes.
I also quit serving the flesh.
It was dead, so had no power over me.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Honestly I didnt think you were that old.

JLB
Hey bro, you have a sense of humor .
Now that is funny. I'm still laughing.

Good on you.
You got me.

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful my brother.
Being that I'm a part of this conversation, could you please go into further explaination of what you mean, especially about the 2 verses you quoted.
I'd like to reply, as I'm sure others would like to also.

My name is OLIGOS

The crux of the conversation with JLB is whether or not our death, burial, and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life with Christ is only symbolic or actual.
I know it is actual because the evidence is manifested by the way I live.
Col 2:10-13..."And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"
It does NOT say we are "symbolically" complete in Him, or "symbolically" circumcised, buried, risen with Him, or quickened together with Him.
Were the completion, burial, resurrection with Him, or quickening only symbolic, then so was the forgiveness.

Is the forgiveness for past sins only symbolic?

 

[Hopeful]

Actually the death refers to eternal damnation in Romans 6:23

Why cant it apply to both physical and eternal death? (First and second death)
Sin has the same effect in both.