Converting to Islam...Question for Christians

[Tina]

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I once spent close to 2 hours watching an entire similar youtube video of Joshua Evans ... and went away with an awful feeling that he is a fraud who is only out to seek fame and attention !

Like many other "converts" and non-believers, his testimonies are based on skewed understanding of the Bible and verses and scriptures he picked and chose and tore out of context ! ... If one is willing is spend time going through his distorted beliefs of the Bible, it is actually pretty easy to dismantle them !

As for Musjahid, I have this to say .... I have met many backsliden Christians who went away for a season in search of other gods and religion, but as far as I know, all of them eventually came back to Christianity !

A Christian who claims to be a true born-again believer in Christ and filled with the Holy Spirit will never stray for good ..... God will never let go of him, the Holy Spirit will pursue him and draw him back to Christ.

If that never happens, it could only mean that you are not a chosen one by God to begin with ....

 

[Danus]

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I once spent close to 2 hours watching an entire similar youtube video of Joshua Evans ... and went away with an awful feeling that he is a fraud who is only out to seek fame and attention !

Like many other "converts" and non-believers, his testimonies are based on skewed understanding of the Bible and verses and scriptures he picked and chose and tore out of context ! ... If one is willing is spend time going through his distorted beliefs of the Bible, it is actually pretty easy to dismantle them !

As for Musjahid, I have this to say .... I have met many backsliden Christians who went away for a season in search of other gods and religion, but as far as I know, all of them eventually came back to Christianity !

A Christian who claims to be a true born-again believer in Christ and filled with the Holy Spirit will never stray for good ..... God will never let go of him, the Holy Spirit will pursue him and draw him back to Christ.

If that never happens, it could only mean that you are not a chosen one by God to begin with ....

Yep, I tend to agree.

As for Joshua, pure propaganda. It may work on the secular world though. That's my only concern.

 

[theLords]

I saw Joshua Evan's testimony on youtube one day and I agree that it was also sketchy. He mentioned that his friend was his youth minister and YM to the rest of the church and that his friend was about 16/17 at the time. It seemed to me that Mr. Evan's didn't have a proper understanding of what a youth minister is. I think the proper title he's looking for is "youth leader" i.e. youth leading youth. It is in fact very deceptive of him to use the term "youth minister," but personally I don't think he knows better.

Watching his testimony (nearly 2 hours "journey to islam" if you want to google it) was interesting. It was very easy to see that he grew up in the church. Growing up in the church you hear hundreds of testimonies of how the Lord has changed lives through prayer and miracles, and it was as if he was imitating the testimonies he grew up listening to. It's also evident that he has the gift of evangelism. The gifts of God are irrevocable, right? He knew exactly when to make the people laugh, exactly when to make them empathize, exactly when to diss the Bible and make the people gasp in shock, and he also has a deep desire to proselytize. That's pretty abnormal to me. Muslims are not known for proselytizing, but Christians are, so much in fact that the world hates us for it and wishes we'd stop. Yet, Joshua Evans, has such a deep "call" on his life to bring the people to Islam. Why? Because he's living out a Christianized version of Islam.

My answer to the question is absolutely not. After walking with the Lord daily, and knowing him so intimately that He's my best friend, I could never walk away from Him. (Not that He'd even let me)

I believe that Christians who leave to worship Mohammad were in fact never Christians at all. They never KNEW Him. To know Him is to love Him. Once you love Him- you're a gonner

 

[Danus]

I saw Joshua Evan's testimony on youtube one day and I agree that it was also sketchy. He mentioned that his friend was his youth minister and YM to the rest of the church and that his friend was about 16/17 at the time. It seemed to me that Mr. Evan's didn't have a proper understanding of what a youth minister is. I think the proper title he's looking for is "youth leader" i.e. youth leading youth. It is in fact very deceptive of him to use the term "youth minister," but personally I don't think he knows better.

Watching his testimony (nearly 2 hours "journey to islam" if you want to google it) was interesting. It was very easy to see that he grew up in the church. Growing up in the church you hear hundreds of testimonies of how the Lord has changed lives through prayer and miracles, and it was as if he was imitating the testimonies he grew up listening to. It's also evident that he has the gift of evangelism. The gifts of God are irrevocable, right? He knew exactly when to make the people laugh, exactly when to make them empathize, exactly when to diss the Bible and make the people gasp in shock, and he also has a deep desire to proselytize. That's pretty abnormal to me. Muslims are not known for proselytizing, but Christians are, so much in fact that the world hates us for it and wishes we'd stop. Yet, Joshua Evans, has such a deep "call" on his life to bring the people to Islam. Why? Because he's living out a Christianized version of Islam.

My answer to the question is absolutely not. After walking with the Lord daily, and knowing him so intimately that He's my best friend, I could never walk away from Him. (Not that He'd even let me)

I believe that Christians who leave to worship Mohammad were in fact never Christians at all. They never KNEW Him. To know Him is to love Him. Once you love Him- you're a gonner

Yep...I totally agree. I was joking with a good Christian friend of mind that Christianity is like the mob; once you get in you can't get out...LOL I'm joking metaphorically obviously. Who would want to leave the faith?

When I accepted Christ I was beaten, done, I'd given up finally. I'll never forget that day. I can never leave him and I know that those who say they did, never knew him.

 

[theLords]

Yep...I totally agree. I was joking with a good Christian friend of mind that Christianity is like the mob; once you get in you can't get out...LOL I'm joking metaphorically obviously. Who would want to leave the faith?

When I accepted Christ I was beaten, done, I'd given up finally. I'll never forget that day. I can never leave him and I know that those who say they did, never knew him.

LOL, instead of sleeping with the fishes we catch them, I love that joke! I haven't heard it before.

And I know exactly what you mean about accepting Christ! I was once Joshua Evans. I grew up in the church all my life. Went to Christian School 7-12th grade. I was immersed in religion, but that's all it was religion! Going through the motions. I remember growing up as a Christian I always thought "I accepted Jesus as my Savior, I believe everything I'm supposed to believe in to get me to heaven, I read my Bible, I pray, what is wrong with me? What is missing? What do those other Christians have that I don't? Where's my joy? Where's my peace?" During worship when my Pastor would say "the presence of the Lord is so sweet today" I had no clue what he was talking about, and it felt like something was wrong with me.

At 17, about the same age Joshua Evans was, I left Christianity. I gave up and went agnostic. After going through very difficult times God broke me and at 21 I came back to the Lord. I had had enough of fighting Him, it was a war I couldn't win. I was still a nominal Christian until I had my first "taste" of the Lord's goodness. Then I had this strong desire to get to know Him. I spent the next 8 months chasing the Lord, praying for Him to reveal Himself to me, and the more He did the harder I pursued. He was real for the first time in my life. One night I stayed up all night in prayer and at about 6 in the morning the Lord paid me a little visit. It was the first time in my life that I ever understood the severity of my sin before God, and His deep loving kindness, and forgiving mercy. It was the first time in my life that the Word became Flesh!

Now I'm one of "those" Christians. Now I finally understand what I was missing. Now I understand why Christians in China would rather die then leave the faith. Now I get it. Praise God

 

[Hana]

Peace to All:

I am new to this forum and was simply browsing with no intention of registering, but this thread kinda got to me.

I don't understand how you could accept a former Muslim could become Christian, but a former Christian could not accept Islam??

While I agree there are some, on both sides, that make false claims, there are thousands that make absolutely true claims. I am one of those.

I was a Christian, born and raised. My entire family are still Christians and I love them dearly. There was a time I wouldn't miss Sunday church, was a member of the choir and enjoyed every minute of it. However, even as a young child I had questions regarding Christian doctrine that were never properly answered. I was simply told I didn't have enough faith or to just have faith. As an adult I became interested in Comparative Religion and after 9/11 decided to look deeper into the Islamic faith. This lead me to search out chat boards, forums and Muslim friends to learn all I could about the true teachings of Islam and not what was portrayed on CNN and newspapers.

I spent 3 years debating, arguing, refuting, etc., in an attempt to "defend my faith" and the doctrines. The more I learned about the true teachings of Islam, the more I realized it was able to answer the questions from my childhood that Christianity was unable to do. In time it became evident I could not defend Christian doctrine with logic. I ended up rejecting Christianity and embraced Islam 6 years ago.

Whether someone I talk to opts to accept Islam as truth or not has no benefit or consequence to me. The vast majority of my friends are Christian and I absolutely respect their choice. We often talk about our beliefs and when I question something about their doctrine they can't explain, they more often than not say, they believe because they have faith. This is not a problem for me at all. For me, I can't accept blind faith over, what I perceive, as logical. They accept, for example, original sin whereas in my studies this was never taught by Jesus, pbuh, and in fact, He taught the exact opposite.

So, what exactly would be my reason for making a false claim about my previous faith? There are none. It's not in my hands to revert anyone. Only God will guide. For Christians they believe a person would be guided to Christianity, for a Muslim they will be guided to Islam. A decision one way or the other has absolutely zero effect on me. I am only required to invite others to Islam, not force them.

Each individual has to decide for themselves what they feel is right and true. For me, that was Islam. I don't need anyone to justify my intent or attempt to know my heart. Only God knows my true intentions and what I feel in my heart, so there is no need for me to justify it.

Believe me, there are many former Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddists, Agnostics that truly embrace Islam, just as there are many that truly embrace Christianity.

I hope this helps you to understand that not all reversions are done with ulterior motives. For many of us we simply believe we found and were guided to truth.

With peace,
Hana

 

[theLords]

Hana, I don't doubt that you are genuine and sincere in your conversion to Islam. What we, as Christians, are trying to express in this thread is that anyone who has met, knows, and has a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus is unable to ever convert to Islam or any other religion. Anyone who knows Him is unable to leave Him.

It sounds like you were a devout Christian, but never missing church, singing in the choir and loving every minute of it does not give you a personal relationship with the Lord.

If it's not too personal for me to ask: Did you know Him intimately? What was He like? What was your relationship with Him like?

The Bible is not the reason I believe in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the reason I believe in the Bible. I was like you at one time. Trying to figure out God's ways through man's intellectual means. It NEVER cuts it. It's not about blind faith and acceptance either. Once I met the Lord, suddenly all those "that's not logical" issues disappeared for me. Because He opened my eyes of understanding.

I have been at each spectrum of faith. "Christian" by name, agnostic, and finally BELIEVER. So I know exactly what you are talking about. Many Christians feel the way you do. They go out looking for something else. Many find what they want outside of Christianity, but many come back to the Lord Jesus with a much deeper understanding of how He is.

 

[theLords]

Another way a Muslim can look at this is through the lens of Qadr - you are a "revert", like myself, the reason many Muslims use the term "revert" rather than "convert" is because we believe we were originally Muslim, and our parents raised us differntly - thus, when we discovered and embraced Islam, we Reverted to our original state.
It can be argued that for the 16 years I was practicing christianity, commiting shirk, I was not sinnig in the eyes of Allah because He knew I would embrace tawheed, and upon embracing Tawheed, I would be forgiven of all past transgressions - In essence I was never a Kafir - I was always a Muslim in the eyes of Allah - and may Allah keep me in that state until I die inshaAllah.

So when a christian tells you, you were never a "true" christian - you can agree with them, and you can thank Allah.

Whatever helps you sleep better at night. If I served your god, I'd probably have to tell myself the same things. Afterall, you've only got about a 100 year lifetime to do enough good deeds to erase trillions upon trillions of sins.

THANK JESUS, He made me one of His. In the end, you're right you won't know until you die what the Truth really is.

 

[Hana]

Hana, I don't doubt that you are genuine and sincere in your conversion to Islam. What we, as Christians, are trying to express in this thread is that anyone who has met, knows, and has a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus is unable to ever convert to Islam or any other religion. Anyone who knows Him is unable to leave Him.

It sounds like you were a devout Christian, but never missing church, singing in the choir and loving every minute of it does not give you a personal relationship with the Lord.

If it's not too personal for me to ask: Did you know Him intimately? What was He like? What was your relationship with Him like?

The Bible is not the reason I believe in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the reason I believe in the Bible. I was like you at one time. Trying to figure out God's ways through man's intellectual means. It NEVER cuts it. It's not about blind faith and acceptance either. Once I met the Lord, suddenly all those "that's not logical" issues disappeared for me. Because He opened my eyes of understanding.

I have been at each spectrum of faith. "Christian" by name, agnostic, and finally BELIEVER. So I know exactly what you are talking about. Many Christians feel the way you do. They go out looking for something else. Many find what they want outside of Christianity, but many come back to the Lord Jesus with a much deeper understanding of how He is.

Peace to you theLords:

Thank you for your response. I fully respect your reasons and decisions for embracing Christianity.

You're absolutely right that simply going to church every Sunday doesn't make anyone a Christian but I know you understood I was simply relating my personal experience with the Christian faith and I appreciate you acknowledging that.

You asked if I ever had a relationship with Jesus, pbuh, and I can say no, not in the sense I feel you are asking. I loved and revered Him as a Christian, no question at all about that, however, as a Muslim I believe I have found an even greater love and respect for Him. As a Muslim, I believe I am following His true teachings exactly as the gospel was revealed to Him and the Prophets before Him (Peace Upon Them All).

I would like to reiterate what my knowledgeable brother, Mujahid Abdullah, also says and that is we don't come to Christian Forums in order to promote or revert anyone. I personally feel that open dialogue between faiths breeds tolerance and promotes education which may help correct misconceptions and knock down barriers. I, for example, can tell you why we, as Muslims, do not accept original sin or trinity, but in no way does it mean anyone else has to accept it. We only hope you can see why we believe what we do as we also want to understand why others believe what they do. There are Muslims that truly believe Christians believe in and pray to 3 different gods. As a Christian, you know this is absolutely ridiculous, but other knowledgeable Muslims, because of open dialogue, are able to correct this misconception and do our best to explain why they are in error. It's a two-way street for educating each other.

So, thank you, again for responding so favourably and sharing your journey to Christianity. I look forward to further discussions of faith with you.

With peace,
Hana

 

[Hana]

What this argument boils down to is the Muslim understanding of the definition of a true Muslim - and the christian understanding of the definition of a true christian.

For Muslims - we believe that all one has to do to be considered a Muslim is simply believe in the Oneness of God and that Muhamed(SAW) is the last messenger. If one openly or privately professes this they are Muslim at that time and if they later renounce this creed, they were at one point Muslim, but are no-longer Muslim.

It seems christians beleive that if someone truely is christian - they will never turn from the religion.

Hana - this can be seen in Islam by the example of the Hadeeth of Jibrael(AS) - where the definitions of the 3 levels of iman are given to us. The 3 levels of faith being Muslim, Mu'min, and Muhsin. When a person attains the spiritual station of Muhsin, the highest spiritual level, it can be argued by Muslims in the same way christians argue, that a Muhsin will never leave the fold of Islam because they have seen the spiritual realities of Allah.

The reason Muslims fail to understand this concept that those who renounce christianity were not christians to begin with is because we have a legalistic approach to religion, we concede that only Allah knows what lies in the hearts of man, so if a man professes to other Muslims that he is also a Muslim, according to the sharia, we must accept this until he proves otherwise with his words or actions. The christians, however, have done away with the law - they focus solely on the spirit - so their understandings of religion are more akin to our understandings of the esoteric in Islam - this is only natural, because even Muslims recognize that Jesus(AS) was a sufi - the teachings of his which we follow heavily influence Sufism - so naturaly his followers will also be focused on the esoteric aspects of God rather than the exoteric.

Another way a Muslim can look at this is through the lens of Qadr - you are a "revert", like myself, the reason many Muslims use the term "revert" rather than "convert" is because we believe we were originally Muslim, and our parents raised us differntly - thus, when we discovered and embraced Islam, we Reverted to our original state.
It can be argued that for the 16 years I was practicing christianity, commiting shirk, I was not sinnig in the eyes of Allah because He knew I would embrace tawheed, and upon embracing Tawheed, I would be forgiven of all past transgressions - In essence I was never a Kafir - I was always a Muslim in the eyes of Allah - and may Allah keep me in that state until I die inshaAllah.

So when a christian tells you, you were never a "true" christian - you can agree with them, and you can thank Allah.

Salam Alaikum, brother:

I absolutely agree with your explanation. Our 2 faiths believe the same thing...a true Muslim would never leave the teachings of Islam, and a true Christian would never leave the teachings of Christianity. We both believe, with a lot of passion, we have the truth, so it would stand to reason.

As a Christian, I believed wholeheartedly I had the truth. I believed it with every ounce of my being. So was I a true Christian? I certainly never lied when I proudly stated my faith to anyone. After years of study, and continued studies, I embraced Islam. It was not a decision I made lightly and it was a struggle beyond description before I could no longer deny the truth and beauty of Islam. For me, as much as I tried to hang on to my beliefs, I simply couldn't live a lie. Meaning, calling myself a Christian while rejecting the doctrines and believing and accepting the Qur'an and teachings of Islam. I absolutely believe with 100% certainty that I have now found the truth and have never been more at peace, Alhamdulillah (All thanks be to God).

So, being a true (insert faith here), simply means you believe you have the truth and could not imagine or think it impossible to believe any other doctrine or scripture. That's where I'm at in my faith and I'd say most Christians on this forum are the same about their faith.

The thing we have to be careful about is not painting all followers of a faith with one brush. Muslims that slaughter innocents and non combatants in front of an audience or anywhere may be Muslims by name, but are not following the true teachings of Islam. They are not the same as me and the vast majority of Muslims. Just as Hitler called himself a devout Christian and the KKK use Christian scripture as their "right" to believe as they do. They may be Christian by name, but do not follow the true teachings of Christianity. Of course it's wrong to say all Christians and Christianity are responsible for their acts and all Muslims and Islam are responsible for the deplorable acts of a few.

In the end, I didn't revert for any reason other than I truly believed I found the truth and I will remain a Muslim for that reason alone. I believe there is only one God and Muhammed, pbuh, is the last messenger of God. That's what makes me a true Muslim.

With peace,

Hana

 

[theLords]

You asked if I ever had a relationship with Jesus, pbuh, and I can say no, not in the sense I feel you are asking. I loved and revered Him as a Christian, no question at all about that, however, as a Muslim I believe I have found an even greater love and respect for Him. As a Muslim, I believe I am following His true teachings exactly as the gospel was revealed to Him and the Prophets before Him (Peace Upon Them All).

I don't understand what you mean that as a Muslim you found greater love and respect for Jesus. Christians worship Jesus Christ as the Holiest of Holies. The Sovereign Lord. The One True God. By worshipping Jesus as a mere prophet you downgrade Him and love Him less. Even the atheists respect Christ as a good man. (respect is a form of love)

As a Christian, I believed wholeheartedly I had the truth. I believed it with every ounce of my being. So was I a true Christian?

The answer sadly is no. You never knew the Lord. You never met Him and that's why you were never a true Christian.

A true Christian is someone who knows Jesus Christ as personal Savior, best friend, and God. The key word is knows.

Matthew 7:21-23

I Never Knew You

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'




BTW Hana welcome to the boards! I look forward to speaking with you on the forums!

 

[theLords]

I Understand completely what Hana is saying that by embracing islam she is actually truly following Jesus(AS) - Jesus(AS) knows Allah - he is One with Allah (fana fi Allah) - so if a person were to disrespect Jesus'(AS) beloved by elevating Jesus to a position equal or greater than that of Allah - Jesus(AS) would be furious - Jesus would be otraged to see graven images of him being given the attributes of godliness. So by giving Jesus(AS) all the glory he was given by Allah by making him the slayer of the dajaal - the Ruh of Allah - One of the best men of all creation - we Muslims please Jesus(AS), while elevating to the status of god makes him angry because he spent his life on earth calling people to worship none but Allah.

The scripture you posted is quite interesting - There is a hadeeth with much the same wording - where are the day of judgement christians will come to jesus(AS) and ask him to intercede before Allah for them - at which point Jesus(AS) will turn away from them and ask Allah not to associate any of the polytheism of christians with him - he will then tell the christians that they are not of him.

We are obeying the father by giving Jesus(AS) - a creation of Allah - one of the best titles any created being can be bestowed - that of Nabi Alayhi salaam

I don't understand some of what you're saying because I don't speak Arabic.

What you have spoken is very logical, however:

How can you profess to know Jesus Christ? Do you speak to Him? Do you sit at His feet for hours? Do you hear His voice? Does He speak to you in dreams? Does He comfort your heart when you're in pain? Does He tell you what grieves His heart? Does He share His concerns with you?

I can tell you that a Christian can answer yes to each one of those questions. I can also tell you that I have experienced each one of those situations and more. I also know that all of your answers are no.

So who is more capable of speaking for Christ? A Christian or a Muslim?

PS- How come you call God father? The greatest relationship between man and god in the Qu'ran is slave and master. Itsn't it some sort of sin to call your god your father?

 

[HisSheep]

This is a neat thread.

I sense some of the posts made by our Muslim friends are bordering on pantheism. So I’d like to ask this question of them:

Isn’t Islam works-based?

Do you take my question? If you don’t maintain proper behavior you lose favor with God, right?

In Christianity, of course, God’s favor for His elect is unmerited. He created us (put His Spirit within us) for the purpose of our doing His predetermined good works. Once the Spirit is there, the works we are able to do convince us of God’s presence within us.

-HisSheep

 

[Hana]

I don't understand what you mean that as a Muslim you found greater love and respect for Jesus. Christians worship Jesus Christ as the Holiest of Holies. The Sovereign Lord. The One True God. By worshipping Jesus as a mere prophet you downgrade Him and love Him less. Even the atheists respect Christ as a good man. (respect is a form of love)

Peace to you theLords:

Muslims, as you know, do not believe Jesus, pbuh (Peace Be Upon Him), was divine or the Son of God. We believe the message Christians follow today is not the original Gospel revealed to Him. However, we do believe He was one of the greatest Prophets sent to confirm the tradition and message of the Prophets before Him and to tell us of another Comforter to come. We believe that Comforter was Prophet Muhammed, pbuh. Muslims believe we do follow His original message and do as He taught us to do, and submit to God the same way He did. ie: The oneness of God, responsible for our own inequities, prostrating in prayer, performing wudu (washing) before prayer, etc. So, by following Him and His message we love and revere Him. We don't believe He ever asked us to pray to Him or worship Him and in fact only taught to pray to God. We do not look for the same personal relationship you speak about because we believe He was only a man, albeit, one of the greatest Prophets, but a man nonetheless. We hold Muhammed, pbuh, in the same light. We do not pray to Him or worship Him, but we love and revere Him.

I hope this makes sense, but if not, please let me know and I will try to explain better.

The answer sadly is no. You never knew the Lord. You never met Him and that's why you were never a true Christian.

A true Christian is someone who knows Jesus Christ as personal Savior, best friend, and God. The key word is knows.

Matthew 7:21-23

I Never Knew You

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

You're absolutly right in the fact I was not a true Christian by the definition of what we are saying here. At the time I believed I was, however. Muslims do not believe in salvation through Jesus, pbuh. We don't believe He taught this. We don't believe anyone can take our sins away or offer forgiveness except God. We pray directly to our Creator as it is only by His will that He forgives and guides. It's interesting you used this quote because when a Muslim reads this we see clearly He is saying He is NOT divine and NOT the way to salvation. The person who follows the teachings as sent to Him from the Father (God) will find salvation. To a Muslim, He is saying, even though you prayed in my name and cast out demons in my name, etc., I did not teach these things and you did not follow my teachings. Therefore, go away from me, I don't know you. We see this one verse in a totally opposite light.

Please understand, this is the Islamic belief and I'm only discussing our differences. It's not about right or wrong as I don't want to enter a debate. I just want to show where we differ in our doctrines about Jesus, pbuh.

BTW Hana welcome to the boards! I look forward to speaking with you on the forums!

Thank you!

With peace,
Hana

 

[theLords]

Peace to you theLords:

Muslims, as you know, do not believe Jesus, pbuh (Peace Be Upon Him), was divine or the Son of God. We believe the message Christians follow today is not the original Gospel revealed to Him. However, we do believe He was one of the greatest Prophets sent to confirm the tradition and message of the Prophets before Him and to tell us of another Comforter to come. We believe that Comforter was Prophet Muhammed, pbuh. Muslims believe we do follow His original message and do as He taught us to do, and submit to God the same way He did. ie: The oneness of God, responsible for our own inequities, prostrating in prayer, performing wudu (washing) before prayer, etc. So, by following Him and His message we love and revere Him. We don't believe He ever asked us to pray to Him or worship Him and in fact only taught to pray to God. We do not look for the same personal relationship you speak about because we believe He was only a man, albeit, one of the greatest Prophets, but a man nonetheless. We hold Muhammed, pbuh, in the same light. We do not pray to Him or worship Him, but we love and revere Him.

I hope this makes sense, but if not, please let me know and I will try to explain better.







You're absolutly right in the fact I was not a true Christian by the definition of what we are saying here. At the time I believed I was, however. Muslims do not believe in salvation through Jesus, pbuh. We don't believe He taught this. We don't believe anyone can take our sins away or offer forgiveness except God. We pray directly to our Creator as it is only by His will that He forgives and guides. It's interesting you used this quote because when a Muslim reads this we see clearly He is saying He is NOT divine and NOT the way to salvation. The person who follows the teachings as sent to Him from the Father (God) will find salvation. To a Muslim, He is saying, even though you prayed in my name and cast out demons in my name, etc., I did not teach these things and you did not follow my teachings. Therefore, go away from me, I don't know you. We see this one verse in a totally opposite light.

Please understand, this is the Islamic belief and I'm only discussing our differences. It's not about right or wrong as I don't want to enter a debate. I just want to show where we differ in our doctrines about Jesus, pbuh.






Thank you!

With peace,
Hana

Thanks for your response. But I was asking something a little different. You went from a Christian professing Christ as the Son of God; to a Muslim who declares Him a simple prophet. So how can Islam allow someone to revere Christ more?

And as far as the Bible verse, how come you are able to interpret it? If Islam teaches the Bible is corrupt. If one part of the Bible is corrupt ALL of it is corrupt. So how can you interpret it?

Thanks for your responses. I like seeing how your mind works ;)

Also, don't you want a personal relationship with your god? If you love your god isn't it natural to want a close, intimate relationship with him?

And, how come you called your god, father? Isn't that a sin for you?

 

[theLords]

Peace to you theLords:

Muslims, as you know, do not believe Jesus, pbuh (Peace Be Upon Him), was divine or the Son of God. We believe the message Christians follow today is not the original Gospel revealed to Him. However, we do believe He was one of the greatest Prophets sent to confirm the tradition and message of the Prophets before Him and to tell us of another Comforter to come. We believe that Comforter was Prophet Muhammed, pbuh. Muslims believe we do follow His original message and do as He taught us to do, and submit to God the same way He did. ie: The oneness of God, responsible for our own inequities, prostrating in prayer, performing wudu (washing) before prayer, etc. So, by following Him and His message we love and revere Him. We don't believe He ever asked us to pray to Him or worship Him and in fact only taught to pray to God. We do not look for the same personal relationship you speak about because we believe He was only a man, albeit, one of the greatest Prophets, but a man nonetheless. We hold Muhammed, pbuh, in the same light. We do not pray to Him or worship Him, but we love and revere Him.

I hope this makes sense, but if not, please let me know and I will try to explain better.







You're absolutly right in the fact I was not a true Christian by the definition of what we are saying here. At the time I believed I was, however. Muslims do not believe in salvation through Jesus, pbuh. We don't believe He taught this. We don't believe anyone can take our sins away or offer forgiveness except God. We pray directly to our Creator as it is only by His will that He forgives and guides. It's interesting you used this quote because when a Muslim reads this we see clearly He is saying He is NOT divine and NOT the way to salvation. The person who follows the teachings as sent to Him from the Father (God) will find salvation. To a Muslim, He is saying, even though you prayed in my name and cast out demons in my name, etc., I did not teach these things and you did not follow my teachings. Therefore, go away from me, I don't know you. We see this one verse in a totally opposite light.

With peace,
Hana

One more question about the Bible verse in Matthew is: If you leave out the words "I never knew you" then your interpretation has no foundation? What about those words?

 

[Hana]

I don't understand some of what you're saying because I don't speak Arabic.

What you have spoken is very logical, however:

How can you profess to know Jesus Christ? Do you speak to Him? Do you sit at His feet for hours? Do you hear His voice? Does He speak to you in dreams? Does He comfort your heart when you're in pain? Does He tell you what grieves His heart? Does He share His concerns with you?

I can tell you that a Christian can answer yes to each one of those questions. I can also tell you that I have experienced each one of those situations and more. I also know that all of your answers are no.

So who is more capable of speaking for Christ? A Christian or a Muslim?

PS- How come you call God father? The greatest relationship between man and god in the Qu'ran is slave and master. Itsn't it some sort of sin to call your god your father?

Peace to you theLords:

I know it's difficult for Christians to understand the Islamic view of Jesus, pbuh. For a Christian it is a very personal relationship. You are right that the answer would be no to your questions. We don't worship the Prophets or pray to them in any way, shape or form. We believe they were sent revelation and messages from God to show us how to worship Him and how to live our lives for Him and Him alone. To be a Slave of Allah, is considered a wonderful thing in Islam. As He is the Creator of all things, and sends revelation to us to tell us how to worship Him...He is in fact our Master. We are proud to be a Servant/Slave of God. It means we are worshipping Him and living our lives they way He intended.

No, it is not a sin to call God, "Father". He is the Father of all creation. The Arabic word for God, as you know, is Allah. This one word stands alone and is all encompassing. This word cannot be made plural, is not gender specific, cannot be added to, (ie Godfather, Godmother). There is never a question about who is being refered to when we use Allah. So, yes, we can call Him Father, or use any of the other 99 names that describes Him, but Allah emcompasses them all.

I know you believe as a Christian you are better to speak of Christ and I understand that, however, we Muslims disagree with you. Because we believe we are following what He taught and Christians follow what Paul taught or what the Councils (ie Nicea) taught. Maybe I can explain our position this way. Muslims perform wudu (wash) before prayer, we fast, we pray only to God, remove our shoes before entering a place of worship, prostrate in prayer, don't eat pork, wear hijab, etc. If you took a direct follower of Jesus, pbuh, and placed him/her in the present day and allowed him to observe Christians and Muslims in prayer, who would he believe were following the teachings of his Master. For us, it is the Muslims.

I don't expect you to agree, but I hope it better explains the Islamic perspective.

With peace,
Hana

 

[Hana]

Thanks for your response. But I was asking something a little different. You went from a Christian professing Christ as the Son of God; to a Muslim who declares Him a simple prophet. So how can Islam allow someone to revere Christ more?

For a Muslim, what could be more respectful and loving than following the teachings of the chosen messengers of God? We don't believe there is anything like a simple Prophet. Some were sent with more revelation than others, but all were chosen by God to deliver a message. All are loved equally. Professing Christ as the Son of God is an unforgivable sin in Islam because it lowers the status of God to our own status...his creations. I think my other post might give more insight. If not, please let me know.

And as far as the Bible verse, how come you are able to interpret it? If Islam teaches the Bible is corrupt. If one part of the Bible is corrupt ALL of it is corrupt. So how can you interpret it?

Muslims believe in the original gospel sent to Jesus, pbuh, but we do not believe that is the same gospel followed by Christians today. That being said, we do believe some of the original message is in there. Therefore, we MUST respect the Holy Bible, but the we don't need the Bible to prove our faith. The standards we use to determine what is true is that if it agrees with the Qur'an it is truth, if it does not, it is corrupt text. When Muslims or any other faith debates or discusses Biblical scripture we have to reference the bible because it is your Holy book. If I told you the Qur'an says this or that...what would you care? However, if I can show you errors or corruption in your own book that you claim to be from God or messages in your Bible that are being ignored, that should mean something. So, basically, we do believe there is some truth left in the Bible, but only to the point where it agrees with the scriptures in the Qur'an.

Thanks for your responses. I like seeing how your mind works ;)

Many have tried to figure that out since my birth. Let me know how that works out for you. lol ;)

Also, don't you want a personal relationship with your god? If you love your god isn't it natural to want a close, intimate relationship with him?

Because we don't believe Jesus, pbuh, is God, no we absolutely do not look for that from Him. We believe we do have a direct line to God Almighty because He is the only one we pray to. Our relationship with Him is following His laws and worshipping as He ordained us to worship.

And, how come you called your god, father? Isn't that a sin for you?

It's fine for us to call Him Father because we don't mean it as a biological father...simply put, He is the father of creation, but it is not a normal calling heard from Muslims.

 

[theLords]

Peace to you theLords:

I know it's difficult for Christians to understand the Islamic view of Jesus, pbuh. For a Christian it is a very personal relationship. You are right that the answer would be no to your questions. We don't worship the Prophets or pray to them in any way, shape or form. We believe they were sent revelation and messages from God to show us how to worship Him and how to live our lives for Him and Him alone. To be a Slave of Allah, is considered a wonderful thing in Islam. As He is the Creator of all things, and sends revelation to us to tell us how to worship Him...He is in fact our Master. We are proud to be a Servant/Slave of God. It means we are worshipping Him and living our lives they way He intended.

No, it is not a sin to call God, "Father". He is the Father of all creation. The Arabic word for God, as you know, is Allah. This one word stands alone and is all encompassing. This word cannot be made plural, is not gender specific, cannot be added to, (ie Godfather, Godmother). There is never a question about who is being refered to when we use Allah. So, yes, we can call Him Father, or use any of the other 99 names that describes Him, but Allah emcompasses them all.

I know you believe as a Christian you are better to speak of Christ and I understand that, however, we Muslims disagree with you. Because we believe we are following what He taught and Christians follow what Paul taught or what the Councils (ie Nicea) taught. Maybe I can explain our position this way. Muslims perform wudu (wash) before prayer, we fast, we pray only to God, remove our shoes before entering a place of worship, prostrate in prayer, don't eat pork, wear hijab, etc. If you took a direct follower of Jesus, pbuh, and placed him/her in the present day and allowed him to observe Christians and Muslims in prayer, who would he believe were following the teachings of his Master. For us, it is the Muslims.

I don't expect you to agree, but I hope it better explains the Islamic perspective.

With peace,
Hana

Can you show me something from the Qu'ran where Allah says "I am your father," or "it's okay to call me father/ see me as father" or "you are my child."

Because if he is your father, don't you want to know him as intimately as you know a father? How do you get close to your father Allah?

Christians are also slaves to Christ, but the Lord says, "not only will you be my slave, I will adopt you and make you my child, you will be my friend, you will be my bride." A slave does not have the same relationship with his master as the son of that master does. Wouldn't you want option?

And I understand what you're saying about following Jesus. As far as Christians following the "gospel of Paul" that's a-whole-nother thread. Jesus does proclaim to be God in the Gospels, but it takes the Holy Spirit to open your eyes before you can see it. Christians fast and pray as well. But Christians have been set free from the curse of the law. Christ proclaimed it was a burden that no one can carry. Because of Jesus we are free from the law. The veil separating us from God has been broken that's why we don't need to wash before we pray, etc. The law was to teach the Jews that they were sinners and that only God could forgive their sins. That's what it's sole purpose is. It was a daily reminder of God's holiness before the Jewish people. Once Christ came His life became a living testimony of the difference between God (Jesus the only perfect Man to walk the earth) and sinful man.

So truly it comes down to. Who knows Jesus Christ? A Christian or a Muslim? Imitating His ways does not mean you know Him. I can imitate any celebrity but that doesn't mean I know them.

If you as an unbiased, outsider saw one group of people worshipping Jesus as God, willing to lay down their lives and be murdered for Him, and another group of people saying He was a "nice prophet and man" who would you think loves Him more?

 

[Hana]

One more question about the Bible verse in Matthew is: If you leave out the words "I never knew you" then your interpretation has no foundation? What about those words?

Peace to you theLords:

Yes, it would still hold foundation because it still says depart from me you workers of lawlessness. To us it means, shoo shoo, leave me you refused to follow what I taught and created a lawless people. But, the fact is, we can't just remove something and say "now what?" If we did that anyone could make the text do whatever it wanted. How scary is that?

With peace,
Hana