countdown" to Israel's end

[MrVersatile48]

I just have time to say that more & more Jews are turning to Christ as Saviour

God's physical rebirth of Israel in 1948 & promised protection of her ever since has involved miraculous victories in 1948, '56, '67, '73, '85 etc

Even greater victories, against even more impossible odds, are promised in Zechariah 12:1-8, Ezekiel 38-39 & the Armageddon prophecies of Joel 3, Zechariah 14 & Revelation 16-19

"His kindness is meant to lead to repentance"

The desert does 'bloom as a rose' as prophesied

Must go

Ian

 

[Vic C.]

Re: reply

I haver been studying end times for about three years now. Have read many books on the subject, but on this forum the Historists don't seem to get it. Teaching this subject here is like running into a swarm of bees. Of course the Church does not replace Israel. To say it does is to spiritualize scriptures. One of the best books I have ever read is authored by Grant Jeffrories. You might want to obtain some of His teachings Javier and Tim.



May God bless, Golfjack

Maybe it's the historicist that does get it. Maybe it's the futurist that has bought into the Jesuit lie that all of it is in the future and none of it points to the first century and Rome. Not all Historicists believe in replacement theology either.

Plus, I think it's sad that most futurism teaches that the ekklesia will be swept away or removed at the first sign of any "danger". That a black eye for all those who have been persecuted and martyred in the past.


Why do "we" put Jacob's Trouble into the future, what it already has happened?

Link --> Jeremiah’s Prophecy and Jacob's trouble

Scroll down to Jeremiah’s Prophecy to start reading.

 

[MrVersatile48]

Just time to link:-

Daniel's 70th Week

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 252#319252

Ian

 

[Bubba]

Re: reply

I haver been studying end times for about three years now. Have read many books on the subject, but on this forum the Historists don't seem to get it. Teaching this subject here is like running into a swarm of bees. Of course the Church does not replace Israel. To say it does is to spiritualize scriptures. One of the best books I have ever read is authored by Grant Jeffrories. You might want to obtain some of His teachings Javier and Tim.



May God bless, Golfjack

Golfjack,
Considering that American Dispensationalism has only been around since the 1830's, and the majority through out history has believed in some sort of Amillennial, Postmillennial or Premillennial historicist account which included the concept that the Church is Israel; and now the "new guy" says the rest of Christendom just doesn't "get it"?
Bubba

 

[Bubba]

Yes it cut and pasted but well worth the read. Bubba

THE CHURCH IS ISRAEL, NOW

SECTION 1

OLD TESTAMENT TITLES AND ATTRIBUTES OF ISRAEL WHICH ARE,
IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, REFERRED TO THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH

THE BELOVED OF GOD
A. Israel Is Beloved Of God
Exo. 15:13 / Deu.33:3 / Ezr.3:11
B. Disobedient Israel Is Not Beloved Of God
Lev. 26:28. 30 / Jer. 12:8 / Jer. 16:5 / Hos. 9:l5 / Amo. 9:7 / Mat. 3:7 / Philip. 3:2 /
1 Th. 2:14-16 / Tit. 1:10
C. The Christians Are Beloved Of God
Rom. 1:7,9,25 / Eph. 5:1 / Col. 3:12 / Jo. 3:1 / 2 The. 2:13 / Rev. 1:4-6
THE CHILDREN OF GOD
A. lsraelites Are The Children Of God
Exo. 4:22 / Den. 14:1 / Isa. 1:2,4 / Isa. 63:8 / Jer. 31:9 / Hos. 11:1
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Children Of God
Deu. 32:5 / John 8:39, 42, 44
C. The Christians Are The Children Of God
John. 1:12, 11:52 / Rom. 8:14,16 / 2 Cor. 6:18 / Gal. 3:26 / Gal. 4:5, 6, 7 /
Philip. 2:15 / 1 Jo. 3:1

THE FIELD OF GOD
A. Israel Is The Field Of God
Jer. 12:10
B. The Christians Are The Field Of God
I Cor. 3:9

THE FLOCK OF GOD AND OF THE MESSIAH
A. Israel Is The Flock Of God And Of The Messiah
Psa.78:52 / Psa.80:1 / Isa.40:ll / Jer.23:1, 2 ,3 / Jer.31:I0 / Eze. 34:12, 15, 16 /
Mic. 5:4 / Zec. 10:3
B. The Christians Are The Flock Of God And Of The Messiah
John 10:14, 16 / Heb. 13:20 / 1 Pe. 2:25 / 1 Pe. 5:2, 3

THE HOUSE OF GOD
A. Israel Is The House Of God
Num. 12:7
B. The Christians Are The House Of God
I Tim. 3:15 / Heb. 3:2, 5, 6 / Heb. 10:21 / 1 Pe. 4:17

THE CHOSEN PEOPLE
A. The Israelites Are The Chosen People
Deu. 7:7 / Deu. 10:15 / Deu. 14:2 /Isa. 43:20, 21
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Chosen People
Deu. 31:17 / 2 Ki. 17:20 / 2 Chr. 25:7 / Psa. 78:59 / Jer. 6:30 / Jer. 7:29 / Jer. 14:10
C. The Christians Are The Chosen People
Col. 3:12 / 1 Pe. 2:9

THE CIRCUMCISED
A. The Israelites Are The Circumcised
Gen. 17:10, 13 / Jdg. 15:18
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Circumcised
Jer. 9:25. 26 / Rom. 2:25,28 / Philip. 3:2
C. The Christians Are The Circumcised
Rom. 2:29 / Philip. 3:3 / Col. 2:11

ISRAEL
A. Israel Is Israel
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not Israelites
Num. 15:30, 31 / Deu. 18:19 / Acts 3:23 / Rom,. 9:6
C. The Christians Are Israel
John 11:50, 51, 52 / 1 Cor. 10:1 / Gal. 5:6; 6:15, 16 / Eph. 2:12,19

JERUSALEM
A. Jerusalem IsThe City And Mother of Israelites
Psa. 149:2 / Isa. 12:6 / Isa. 49:18, 20, 22 / Isa. 51:18 / Lam. 4:2
B. Jerusalem Is The City And Mother Of Christians
Gal. 4:26 / Heb. 12:22

THE JEWS
A. Israelites Are Jews
Ezr. 5:1 / Jer. 34:8, 9 / Zec. 8:22, 23
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not Jews
Rom. 2:28 / Rev. 2:9 / Rev 3:9
C. Christians Are True Jews
Rom. 2:29

THE NEW COVENANT
A. The New Covenant Is With Israel
Jer. 31:31, 33
B. The New Covenant Is With The Christians
Luke 22:20 / 1 Cor. 11:25 / 2 Cor. 3:6 / Heb. 8:6, 8, 10

AN OLIVE TREE
A. Israel Is An Olive Tree
Jer. 11:16 / Hos. 14:6
B. The Christians Are An Olive Tree
Rom. 11:24

THE KINGDOM OF GOD
A. Israel Is The Kingdom Of God
Exo. 19:6 1 Chr. 17:14/ 1 Chr. 28:5
B. Disobedient Israel Is Not The Kingdom O fGod
Mat 8:11, 12 / Mat 21:43
C. The Christians Are The kingdom Of God
Rom. 14:17 / 1 Cor. 4:20 / Col. 1:13 / Col. 4:11 / Rev. 1:6

THE PEOPLE OF GOD
A. The Israelites Are The People Of God
Exo. 6:7 / Deu. 27:9 / 2 Sam. 7:23 / Jer. 11:4
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not The People Of God
Hos. 1:9 / Jer.5:10
C. The Christians Are The People Of God
Rom. 9:25 / 2 Cor. 6:16 / Eph. 4:12 / Eph. 5:3 / 2Th. 1:10 / Tit. 2:14

THE PRIESTS OF GOD
A. The Israelites Are The Priests Of God
Exo. 19:6
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Priests Of God
1 Sam. 2:28,30 / Lam. 4:13, 16 / Eze. 44:10, 13 / Hos 4.6 / Mal.2:2,4, 8 ,9
C. The Christians Are The Priests Of God
1 Pe. 2:5,9 / Rev. 1:6 / Rev. 5:10

THE VINEYARD OF GOD
A. The Israelites Is The Vineyard Of God
Isa. 5:3,4, 5, 7 /Jer. 12:10
B. The Christians Are The Vineyard Of God
Luke 20:16

THE WIFE (OR BRIDE) OF GOD
A. Israel Is The Wife (Or Bride) Of God
Isa. 54:5, 6 / Jer. 2:2 / Eze. 16:32 / Hos. 1:2
B. Disobedient Israel Is Not The Wife (Or Bride) Of God
Jer. 3:8 / Hos. 2:2
C. The Christians Are The Wife (Or Bride) Of God
2 Cor. 1l:2 / Eph.5:31, 32

THE CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM
A. The Israelites Are The Children Of Abraham
2 Chr. 20:7 / Psa. 105:6 / Isa. 41:8
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Children Of Abraham
John 8:39 / Rom,. 9:6, 7 / Gal. 4:25, 30
C. The Christians Are The Children Of Abraham
Rom. 4:11, 16 / Gal. 3:7, 29 / Gal. 4:23, 28, 31


SECTION 2

OLD TESTAMENT VERSES REFERRING TO ISRAEL WHICH ARE QUOTED
IN THE NEW TESTAMENT AS REFERRING TO THE CHRISTIANS

QUOTE # 1: Lev. 26:11 / Eze. 37:27 / 2 Cor. 6:16
QUOTE # 2: Deu. 30:12-14 / Rom. 10:6-8
QUOTE # 3: Deu. 31:6 / Heb. 13:5
QUOTE # 4: Deu. 32:36 / Psa. 135:14 / Heb. 10:30
QUOTE # 5: Psa. 22:22 / Heb. 2:12
QUOTE # 6: Psa. 44:22 / Rom. 8:36
QUOTE # 7: Psa. 95:7-11 / Heb. 3:7-11
QUOTE # 8: Psa. 130:8 / Tit. 2:14
QUOTE # 9: Isa. 28:16 / Rom. 10:11 / Eph. 2:20 / 1 Pe. 2:6
QUOTE # 10: Isa. 49:8 / 2 Cor. 6:2
QUOTE # 11: Isa. 52:7 / Rom. 10:15
QUOTE # 12: Isa. 54:1 / Gal. 4:27
QUOTE # 13: Jer. 31:31-34 / Heb. 8:8-12
QUOTE # 14: Hos. 1:10; 2:23 / Rom. 9:25-26 / 1 Pe. 2:10
QUOTE # 15: Hos. 13:14 / 1 Cor. 15:55
QUOTE # 16: Joel 2:32 / Rom. 10:13
SECTION 3

OLD TESTAMENT ETHICAL COMMANDS TO ISRAEL WHICH ARE QUOTED
IN THE NEW TESTAMENT AS APPLYING TO THE CHURCH

QUOTE #1: Exd.16:18 / 2Cor.8:15
QUOTE #2: Lev. 11:45; 19:2 / 1 Pe. 1:16
QUOTE #3: Deu. 5:16 / Eph. 6:2-3
QUOTE #4: Deu. 17:7; 19:19; 22:24; 24:7 / 1 Cor. 5:13
QUOTE #5: Deu. 19:15 / 2 Cor. 13:1 / 1 Tim. 5:19
QUOTE #6: Isa. 35:3 / Heb. 12:12
QUOTE #7: Isa. 48:20; 52:11 / 2 Cor. 6:17
Written circa 1985 AD by Carl Jones, Dale Pettyjohn, & Clif Loucks; of the church Christ built

 

[Vic C.]

I don't mind reasonable size paste jobs, but wouldn't it be better if you did a copy/paste instead? If it were my site you were cutting info from, I'd be a little ticked! lol

 

[Bubba]

I don't mind reasonable size paste jobs, but wouldn't it be better if you did a copy/paste instead? If it were my site you were cutting info from, I'd be a little ticked! lol

VicC,
I will keep it in mind,but considering what I have read on other threads over the last few weeks on the on going Catholic issue,(much of which was contributed by a moderator) this "cut and paste" seems harmless.
Bubba

 

[Vic C.]

VicC,
I will keep it in mind,but considering what I have read on other threads over the last few weeks on the on going Catholic issue,(much of which was contributed by a moderator) this "cut and paste" seems harmless.
Bubba

Ah Bubba, you missed my point. I was teasing you. Cut and paste means you "cut" (removed) it from one place and pasted it somewhere else.

 

[Bubba]

Ah Bubba, you missed my point. I was teasing you. Cut and paste means you "cut" (removed) it from one place and pasted it somewhere else.

I am a bit thick headed at times. Peace,Bubba

 

[RND]

I don't mind reasonable size paste jobs, but wouldn't it be better if you did a copy/paste instead? If it were my site you were cutting info from, I'd be a little ticked! lol

Or how about inserting a link so we can view the material in the web page format originally intended?

Just a suggestion Bubba.

Keep up with the great posts however regarding "spiritual Israel" however. It's a great subject that many "Christian/Zioinst" use to get people off track regarding the Biblical promises of God.

 

[MrVersatile48]

Bubba

It's a pity none of the many Scriptures come up on http://www.BibleGateway.org when the mouse points at them - some need just the "." omitted & some need an extra letter added

That said, it was a great study that needs Romans 11 adding to show that God's purpose is for the Christians to be grafted into the olive tree of Israel, not to replace her - she is the root & we are the wild branches grafted in & are not to be arrogant

I'll first have to paste this Israel prayer update email, as the only link would let anyone into my inbox

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 312#334312

Ian

 

[MrVersatile48]

Romans 11
The Remnant of Israel
1I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.

2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijahâ€â€how he appealed to God against Israel:
3"Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"[a]?

4And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal."

5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.

6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.[c]

7What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,

8as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day."[d] 9And David says:
"May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever."[e]

Ingrafted Branches

11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry
14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.
15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,
18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in."
20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

All Israel Will Be Saved

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."[g]
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,
29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,
31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you.
32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Doxology

33Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34"Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?"[j]
35"Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay him?"[k]
36For from him and through him and to him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

Footnotes:

Romans 11:3 1 Kings 19:10,14
Romans 11:4 1 Kings 19:18
Romans 11:6 Some manuscripts by grace. But if by works, then it is no longer grace; if it were, work would no longer be work.
Romans 11:8 Deut. 29:4; Isaiah 29:10
Romans 11:10 Psalm 69:22,23
Romans 11:27 Or will be
Romans 11:27 Isaiah 59:20,21; 27:9; Jer. 31:33,34
Romans 11:31 Some manuscripts do not have now.
Romans 11:33 Or riches and the wisdom and the
Romans 11:34 Isaiah 40:13
Romans 11:35 Job 41:11

 

[tim-from-pa]

28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,
29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,
31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you.
32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

So true. Here is clear black and white proof that God will yet deal with (unbelieving) Israel and they are yet a people. When does this happen? Obviously long after the new Covenant was instituted. This agrees with Jeremiah that stated:

Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

All sorts of things are said against Israel, (which I am wondering is bordering on close-mindedness and racism) but the bottom line is that God promised their continual existence, and He promised them a New Heart. One cannot get that New Heart unless the New Covenant was instituted. That means they are around as a people and God will yet work with them long after Christ's atoning work.

 

[jgredline]

So true. Here is clear black and white proof that God will yet deal with (unbelieving) Israel and they are yet a people. When does this happen? Obviously long after the new Covenant was instituted. This agrees with Jeremiah that stated:

Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

All sorts of things are said against Israel, (which I am wondering is bordering on close-mindedness and racism) but the bottom line is that God promised their continual existence, and He promised them a New Heart. One cannot get that New Heart unless the New Covenant was instituted. That means they are around as a people and God will yet work with them long after Christ's atoning work.

Good post!