Do you need to believe Jesus is God to be saved?

[Whatever]

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John calls Jesus God. Jesus was before the beginning. Jesus spoke the beginning at the beginning, and created everything that is created.

Actually John calls "the Word" (Logos) was and is God and then in John 1:14 John tells us that the "Word" became flesh and dwelt among us. So, the human being who was born did not exist before he was born. He is called Jesus. The Divine Word created the world in the beginning.

There is this term in theology called the Hypostatic Union:
In simplest terms, the hypostatic union is a reference to Jesus Christ as both God and man, fully divine and fully human. Hypostasis is the Greek word for subsistence (think: individual existence). The hypostatic union, therefore, is the technical term for the unipersonality of Christ, whereby in the incarnation the Son of God was constituted a complex person with both a human and a divine nature.

I do not deny that Jesus is the Word in human flesh (but now in resurrected flesh), but it was not in human flesh that the Word created everything.

But this brings up another question:
Mal 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

Did not the Word taking on a human body cause somekind of change?

 

[electedbyhim]

Many on here are believing that knowing Jesus is God, is needed for salvation.

So, are those who do not believe Jesus is God, truly regenerated?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Fastfredy0,

Which brings us back to the question: What very basic thing(s) must be known to be saved where "saved" means born again?

The example of the Samaritans gives a good standard for us to follow, and it appears that Luke records this to set the standard of what is required for salvation and inclusion in the true "Ekklesia", those who have received a call to come out of the (Gentile and Jewish) World:
Acts 8:5–6,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Philip preached "Christ unto them" and Luke states that this included two major categories, "the things concerning the kingdom of God", and "the things concerning the name of Jesus Christ" and the extent of these two categories can be to some extent assessed by the details of the two Speeches that Peter gave in Acts 2 and 3. These contain not only the death, resurrection and exaltation of Jesus, but also speak about the future Kingdom of God.

As a result of their belief of the Gospel of the Kingdom and Name they were motivated to identify with the death and resurrection of Jesus by baptism in water, and as a result of their faith and action they were welcomed into fellowship, and then granted the Holy Spirit.

The Apostle Paul also preached this Gospel, and a similar summary is given in the following:
Acts 28:30–31 (KJV): 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Many on here are believing that knowing Jesus is God, is needed for salvation.

So, are those who do not believe Jesus is God, truly regenerated?

Hello electedbyhim, Sir, your 1st. OP question on page 1 got our attention on something that we thought was a serious issue.

According to the gospels and the writings of the apostles, a person must believe that Jesus did everything necessary for our sins to be forgiven, He was resurrected and Jesus is God in order to go to heaven.

Romans 10:9 states that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

Now Your 2nd. question:
Many on here are believing that knowing Jesus is God, is needed for salvation.

So, are those who do not believe Jesus is God, truly regenerated?

Let me ask you, 1st. are you making these questions for us to answer for what reason? because according to the scriptures, God will judge both Jews and Gentiles. Romans 2:10

Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[electedbyhim]

Hello electedbyhim, Sir, your 1st. OP question on page 1 got our attention on something that we thought was a serious issue.

According to the gospels and the writings of the apostles, a person must believe that Jesus did everything necessary for our sins to be forgiven, He was resurrected and Jesus is God in order to go to heaven.

Romans 10:9 states that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

Now Your 2nd. question:
Many on here are believing that knowing Jesus is God, is needed for salvation.

So, are those who do not believe Jesus is God, truly regenerated?

Let me ask you, 1st. are you making these questions for us to answer for what reason? because according to the scriptures, God will judge both Jews and Gentiles. Romans 2:10

Love, Walter And Debbie

My second question is just curiosity of what others believe.

I believe Scripture has already answered that question as well.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

My second question is just curiosity of what others believe.

I believe Scripture has already answered that question as well.

Thank you, I was curious also.

Love, Walter

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Walter (and Debbie),

According to the gospels and the writings of the apostles, a person must believe that Jesus did everything necessary for our sins to be forgiven, He was resurrected and Jesus is God in order to go to heaven.

I was interested in your broad statements, but I disagree with two aspects in the above. You say that a person must believe Jesus is God in order to go to heaven. I reject both aspects of this, as I believe there is only One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is The Son of God. And secondly the faithful do not go to heaven at death, no immortal souls, or in the future, but they return to the dust to await the return of Jesus from heaven who will raise them from the dead and give them immortality and a place in the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years. And it appears that Jesus will return very soon. What does the Bible really teach?

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I was interested in your broad statements, but I disagree with two aspects in the above. You say that a person must believe Jesus is God in order to go to heaven. I reject both aspects of this, as I believe there is only One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is The Son of God.

Trevor, Wow! I think that I can see why you are saying this because 1st. of all, we answered electedbyhim 1st. OP questions in that thread, according to our faith with that scripture, we grow in faith.

And secondly the faithful do not go to heaven at death, no immortal souls, or in the future, but they return to the dust to await the return of Jesus from heaven who will raise them from the dead and give them immortality and a place in the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years. And it appears that Jesus will return very soon. What does the Bible really teach?

Yes, Sir, you are correct, thank you.

Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[Fastfredy0]

Did not the Word taking on a human body cause somekind of change?

No. It's God creating and using a human body with that body having the attributes of a human. Like me putting on a shirt. I did not change, I'm just using an instrument to accomplish a task.

 

[Fastfredy0]

The Apostle Paul also preached this Gospel, and a similar summary is given in the following:
Acts 28:30–31 (KJV): 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

This is a generality .... what are the specifics that one must believe (in your opinion)?

 

[Fastfredy0]

So, are those who do not believe Jesus is God, truly regenerated?

I have my doubts, but I am not sure.

Question: If one does not believe Christ is God AND if one worships Christ .... then is one worshiping in idol?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Walter and Debbie,

Yes, Sir, you are correct, thank you.

Yes, but my impression of your posts is that you are willing to have one foot on one side of the dividing line, and the other foot on the other.

A few years ago we buried my 100 y.o. mother-in-law. She had been a widow for about 34 years, and the half grave was preserved. We wanted to supply a new portion for the headstone, and we could do no better than copy her husband's inscription, most probably chosen by her "In Hope of the Resurrection". Her grandson who did the service read a portion of 1 Corinthians 15, the Resurrection chapter. It was a very quiet area of the cemetery, mostly because of the age of most of the graves. The supervisors of the cemetery apologised because they found an unidentified corpse in her position, but we did not object, and were not informed exactly whether or not it was left there, possibly a bit deeper. This could have been a criminal, or one of God's poor who could not afford a grave. But we believe that when Jesus returns, my father-in-law and mother-in-law will be reunited and then gathered to Christ where if found faithful they will receive immortality and a place in the Kingdom of God on earth. We do not believe every one is raised, but possibly they may meet the unknown person at that time Daniel 12:1-3.

We saw in the distance, in a newer portion of the cemetery, another grave side burial. I was not close enough to witness if a Minister or Pastor was officiating, or whether it was more secular. One of my mates who used to live in a rural area with close contact with many, mainly because his father was the local butcher, was often invited to some funerals. He was originally CofE, and he stated that the CofE Minister used to always send the deceased up to heaven, no matter how notoriously bad was the deceased. Perhaps if he was honest to his beliefs, he would send some of them to hell, but he would not get paid and start to lose his hatches, matches and dispatches money. This seems to be an important part of their position, as I pass a CofE Church on Sunday morning and the attendance is only about 10-15 80++ y.o. participants, almost waiting for the day of their dispatch to heaven.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Yes, but my impression of your posts is that you are willing to have one foot on one side of the dividing line, and the other foot on the other.

The wrong impression you got.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Fastfredy0,

I have my doubts, but I am not sure.
Question: If one does not believe Christ is God AND if one worships Christ .... then is one worshiping in idol?

Well, one or the other is misinformed.

This is a generality .... what are the specifics that one must believe (in your opinion)?

The fellowship that I belong to is a lay movement and each meeting is autonomous. Our meeting has a Constitution and the important part a Statement of faith which states that the full inspiration of the Scriptures is an essential foundation, and then lists a total of 30 Items labeled "Truth to be Received" which are roughly split into the two aspects "the Things concerning the Name of Jesus Christ" and "the Things concerning the Kingdom of God". The next section is called "Doctrines to be Rejected" and contains 36 items. The next section is a List of 53 "Commandments of Christ". Candidates for Baptism agree with all of this in their interview with two Senior Brothers before Water Baptism.

We fellowship eight similar meetings in our area and we have a private school, open also to local children. We have visiting speakers from Sydney and elsewhere, who are also in fellowship with much the same Statement of Faith. We have much ebb and flow of people and ideas, good for discussion, but little tolerance of what we would consider wrong doctrine. My Grandfather and Uncle were disfellowshipped in 1958, and as far as I can tell never changed their position. They lived on a remote farm.

A lot of our candidates for Baptism are drawn from members' children and other Sunday School scholars. Sunday School takes them through three levels Junior, Intermediate and Senior over a period of 5 years each, covering the full range of the Bible. We also have some "Interested Friends" who are Baptised usually after they attend some of our advertised Public Seminars. available in the Hall and on You-tube and also private instruction. In other words, we do not have an open fellowship, but Baptised members attend the Exhort, and partake of the Bread and Wine each week.

Now I am not sure that you want me to List all of our beliefs, fairly unique beliefs on the Atonement and the Kingdom, but I am quite happy to "whittle" away at each subject as it arises, but most people on this forum are fairly fixed in their P.O.V., for example your first comment that I quoted.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[electedbyhim]

I have my doubts, but I am not sure.

Question: If one does not believe Christ is God AND if one worships Christ .... then is one worshiping in idol?

This is an excellent point.

I would definitely say this is idol worship.

It is no different than bowing the knee to Mary and praying to her or the other saints.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Walter (and Debbie),

According to the gospels and the writings of the apostles, a person must believe that Jesus did everything necessary for our sins to be forgiven, He was resurrected and Jesus is God in order to go to heaven.

Here you say that we must believe that Jesus is God in order to go to heaven.

I was interested in your broad statements, but I disagree with two aspects in the above. You say that a person must believe Jesus is God in order to go to heaven. I reject both aspects of this, as I believe there is only One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is The Son of God. And secondly the faithful do not go to heaven at death, no immortal souls, or in the future, but they return to the dust to await the return of Jesus from heaven who will raise them from the dead and give them immortality and a place in the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years.

Then I said above that I disagree, that Jesus is not God and we do not go to heaven.

Yes, Sir, you are correct, thank you.

Then in response you agreed with my statement that we do not go to heaven.

Yes, but my impression of your posts is that you are willing to have one foot on one side of the dividing line, and the other foot on the other.

I was more or less saying you agreed and disagreed about heaven, and now you say that my assessment about having your feet on either side is wrong:

The wrong impression you got.

I do not believe in heaven going and immortal souls.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Fastfredy0 and Greetings "electedbyhim",

I have my doubts, but I am not sure.
Question: If one does not believe Christ is God AND if one worships Christ .... then is one worshiping in idol?

This is an excellent point.
I would definitely say this is idol worship.
It is no different than bowing the knee to Mary and praying to her or the other saints.

It was not until I read "electedbyhim"s post that I properly understood what Fastfredy0 was actually saying. The position and status of Jesus the Son of God is revealed in the following:
Philippians 2:5–11 (KJV): 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
When we worship God and bow the knee to Jesus, God's appointed Christ, then it is to the glory of God the Father, not to the glory of the so-called Trinity. This is true worship. If there are not three Gods in One, then Trinity worship is in effect idolatry.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[electedbyhim]

Greetings again Fastfredy0 and Greetings "electedbyhim",


It was not until I read "electedbyhim"s post that I properly understood what Fastfredy0 was actually saying. The position and status of Jesus the Son of God is revealed in the following:
Philippians 2:5–11 (KJV): 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
When we worship God and bow the knee to Jesus, God's appointed Christ, then it is to the glory of God the Father, not to the glory of the so-called Trinity. This is true worship. If there are not three Gods in One, then Trinity worship is in effect idolatry.

Kind regards
Trevor

When we bow the knee to Jesus Christ, we are bowing down to Yahweh.

They are the same one, as the Spirit of God.

The Trinity.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Here you say that we must believe that Jesus is God in order to go to heaven.

Good morning, You must have misunderstood me somewhere.

I was more or less saying you agreed and disagreed about heaven, and now you say that my assessment about having your feet on either side is wrong:

Your statements.

Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[Fastfredy0]

Premise 1:

In other words, Jesus is NOT GOD, but a child that was to be born,

Premise 2:

When we worship God and bow the knee to Jesus, God's appointed Christ, then it is to the glory of God the Father

Conclusion:
It is O.K. to worship an idol if it is Jesus.