or 2) the word "everlasting" when properly translated is talking about the final state could by the fire, i.e. everlasting fire = everlasting destruction or the action of the fire is everlasting --- no coming back, hence everlasting punishment (i.e. a state of one that's perished) not everlasting punishing.
Or 3) "Everlasting ___________” = “God’s _________”. I mean if you think about it, what else in this universe is really, truly “everlasting” other than God?
Eternal/Everlasting fire = God’s fire = A fire that is not quenched (quenched means to put out prior to consuming its fuel). Again, if you think about this phrase, why even bring up “unquenchable” if that Scripture didn’t mean to point to the fact that all the fuel is consumed. That’s what fires do, unless they run out of oxygen first or water douses the fire.
Eternal/Everlasting Punishment = God’s Punishment (the final one versus a probationary curse).
That is, when the afterlife is the topic and all things are made right (post judgment). The punishment for sin = death (the second one of course since we all experience the first one/physical death). Fear not what man can do, but what God can do (kill both the body and the soul). Pretty simple really, when you actually think about it.
None of these “eternal/everlasting” passages used mean anything other than a very real description of what’s to come for the unsaved. Their just and final, and eternal and everlasting penalty for sin/punishment = (____________). Hint, you’ll actually find “the penalty” in Genesis 2 and onward throughout the Bible (like John 3:16) as was pointed out already in the OP.
But first, doing a word search of the entire Bible for “everlasting” is extremely interesting and educational since, I suppose that’s where people think the bible teaches never-ending life for the un-saved, even though it speaks of death elsewhere, albeit an unhappy/painful life.
Take the ESV translation searched for “everlasting”. You get 62 occurrences. What’s first?
1. Genesis 9:15-16 (ESV) 15 I will remember my covenant that is between me and you [Noah] and every living creature of all flesh. And the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. When the bow is in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth.”
Note: I’ve been following another thread discussing things like “Moses’ Law”/covenant, God’s Law/covenant, etc. and when/if they’re now done away with, fulfilled, abolished, etc. Lots of opinions there. But for this covenant, it’s “everlasting”. It’s hard to dispute that given the verses above. My point here is not on that topic (what the covenant was/is), but rather here we have the first occurrence in the Bible of “everlasting”. And what does it mean here? “My covenant” = “Everlasting covenant”. Pretty simple interpretation really. When God finally decides to judge the wicked, it will be an everlasting punishment. Of what nature is the only question, I suppose. Torture or the death sentence? 50 lashes (every day forever) or stoning?
Then we have a bunch of other uses of this word “everlasting” where it’s used in exactly the same way.
2. Genesis 21:33 (ESV) Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba and called there on the name of the Lord, the Everlasting God.
3. 1 Chronicles 16:36 (ESV) Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel, from everlasting to everlasting!”
4. Psalm 9:6 (ESV) The enemy came to an end in everlasting ruins; their cities you rooted out; the very memory of them has perished.
5. Psalm 78:66 (ESV) And he [God] put his adversaries to rout; he put them to everlasting shame.
6. Psalm 90:2 (ESV) Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
7. Psalm 145:13 (ESV) Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and your dominion endures throughout all generations.
That's what I see from just these seven occurrences (and the rest of them)? Here we have “everlasting kingdom” = “God’s kingdom”. So and “everlasting punishment” is “God’s punishment”, the final one, that is! It really says nothing more than it’s GOD’s final judgment (ere revocable, so to speak).
So what is God’s final judgment of the wicked from the universal covenant that’s applicable to “all flesh”? Humm, even if the Bible didn’t come right out and say it, we at least get a hint from the fact that God spoke these verses to Noah, just after the flood. As I recall, they all DIED in the flood expect Noah and his family. But the Bible is not silent on what God’s punishment is for all that do not have forgiveness granted them through Christ.
God Says: Genesis 2:17
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Satan Says: Genesis 3:4
But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.”
So who’s right and who’s wrong? The everlasting is right, of course. Yes, I know that all kinds of commentators (many very, very smart, much more so than I (or should I say “me”, I forget)) have said that since Adam went on to live to age 930 years, that God must have meant Spiritual Death instead of Physical Death. However, a better understanding is simply that here “day” is used the same way God’s word uses the Hebrew word “Yom” in many, many other places. Sometimes it clearly means a long period of time (versus 24 hours or ~ 12 hours of daylight). Just like we do in English even “today” (pun intended). And therefore God really did mean physical death to Adam after all (which is exactly why he and Eve were so afraid). Which of course did occur during Adam’s 930th year. It’s only the people that will not believe that “yom” can and does mean long periods of time in Genesis (versus 12 or 24 hours) that have to come up with a “spiritual” death. Adam/Eve did die physically within their “yom”.
Actually, it’s the only thing that makes sense (and I can prove it). For if God in Gen 2:2 meant “Spiritual Death” then what’s up with Adam/Eve having further (post sinning) conversations with God? I thought they were “spiritually dead” so why is God talking to them and of all things, putting garments on them? Putting garments on dead people, really? It’s a silly argument, if you fairly look at the Biblical message without any tradition holding you back, it’s the only thing that makes sense of the text (Gen 2, John 3:16, Rom 6:23 and all the rest).
Also, was Satan right after all, that they “wouldn’t surely die” or was he lying instead? Obviously he was lying. So what’s up with this never dying thing in Hell? Was Satan right, after all, if the penalty for sin is not death? And since we all die physically (saved and un-saved) and we all were once dead spiritually (saved and unsaved) then
what exactly is the difference for those whose sins have been forgiven versus those who have not been forgiven their sins? That would be a big fat zero (if God meant only spiritual death in Gen 2:2).
So what is meant by “death” in Gen 2:2 and elsewhere like in Romans 6:23? I say, it depends on the context/topic at hand in the Scriptures. Obviously, the topic at hand in Gen 2:2 is a penalty for sin, a far reaching penalty, but obviously a penalty none the less. And one Adam was truly afraid to suffer (so much so that he ran around and hid from God because of it).
Matthew 10:28 (ESV) And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Not some unbiblical verse like:
Matthew 10:28 (ECT) And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy [torment] both soul and body in hell [forever].
I’ve even heard people argue (or try to) that here “destroy” doesn’t mean destroy but rather something like “ruin”. It’s a silly argument. Jesus just got through saying “
kill the body” but no the soul. Guess what? It’s the same Greek word (ἀποκτείνω) translated once as Kill and once as “destroy”. Maybe the authors and Greek speakers of that day really were inspired to write it like they meant it.
To kill the body is child’s play. Pretty much anybody can do that. Now, to kill the soul AND the body, that’s destruction. Total, final, eternal, everlasting destruction. A Capital punishment (big C) found only in the Captain’s abilities. Not even the Roman soldiers trained to kill for a living, could do that.
The Final Punishment = a capability only God has = an eternal punishment = the 2nd death. No wonder Adam was afraid! Me too. I've seen (and not to far from experiencing that 1st one).
