God No One Has Seen At Any Time

[SolaScriptura]

If this is true of most all the forums/ internet threads and posts,
is there any place the truth only is permitted ? Anyplace online or in person ? (do not disclose the places in person where only truth is permitted - it makes them a target)

can you disprove what I have written from the Bible?

 

[SolaScriptura]

In Hebrew there are variations of the root word adon. They are not all used the same ways and in the same context. The variant we are talking about right now is ’ă·ḏō·nî because that's the one that's used in Psalm 110:1. Other variants may mean different things, but the one that matters in regards to Jesus not being God right now is adoni. So I am actually trying to help you. As I previously pointed out, this is beyond dispute, and I would even go so far as to ring the bell and call this check mate. Adoni is used 100% of the time to refer to human masters/lords in the Bible. Let's look at some of the examples where this is the truth.

Below, the word used to refer to Jesus as the Lord at the right hand of YHWH in Psalm 110:1 is used 100% exlcusively in regards to those who are not God in the Bible.

Gen. 24:36​

My master’s wife Sarah has borne him a son in her old age, and my master has given him everything he owns.​

​

Gen. 32:4​

He instructed them, “You are to say to my master Esau, ‘Your servant Jacob says: I have been staying with Laban and have remained there until now.​

​

Gen. 44:9​

If any of your servants is found to have it, he must die, and the rest will become slaves of my lord.”​

​

1 Sam. 24:6​

So he said to his men, “The LORD forbid that I should do such a thing to my master, the LORD’s anointed. May I never lift my hand against him, since he is the LORD’s anointed.”​

​

1 Sam. 25:27​

Now let this gift your servant has brought to my lord be given to the young men who follow you​

​

2 Sam. 4:8​

They brought the head of Ish-bosheth to David at Hebron and said to the king, “Here is the head of Ish-bosheth son of Saul, your enemy who sought your life. Today the LORD has granted vengeance to my lord the king against Saul and his offspring.”​

​

2 Sam. 19:28​

For all the house of my grandfather deserves death from my lord the king, yet you have set your servant among those who eat at your table. What further right, then, do I have to keep appealing to the king?”​

​

1 Kings 1:2​

So his servants said to him, “Let us search for a young virgin for our lord the king, to attend to him and care for him and lie by his side to keep him warm.”​

​

1 Kings 18:13​

Was it not reported to my lord what I did when Jezebel slaughtered the prophets of the LORD? I hid a hundred prophets of the LORD, fifty men per cave, and I provided them with food and water.​

​

1 Kings 20:9​

So Ahab answered the messengers of Ben-hadad, “Tell my lord the king, ‘All that you demanded of your servant the first time I will do, but this thing I cannot do.’ ”​

​

1 Chronicles 21:3​

But Joab replied, “May the LORD multiply His troops a hundred times over. My lord the king, are they not all servants of my lord? Why does my lord want to do this? Why should he bring guilt on Israel?”​

​

Psalm 110:1​

The LORD said to my Lord:​

“Sit at My right hand​

until I make Your enemies​

a footstool for Your feet.”​

it is obvious that you know ZERO Hebrew!

Psalm 110:1 - Yahweh said to Yahweh

Psalm 110:1 – “nü´ùm Yehôvâh lA´dönî” A very important verse, and Psalm. In the greater majority of English Versions, we have as in the King James Bible, “The LORD said unto my Lord”. In some Versions, like the 2011 New International, Good News, English Standard Version, New American Bible...

christianforums.net

 

[Runningman]

it is obvious that you know ZERO Hebrew!

Psalm 110:1 - Yahweh said to Yahweh

Psalm 110:1 – “nü´ùm Yehôvâh lA´dönî” A very important verse, and Psalm. In the greater majority of English Versions, we have as in the King James Bible, “The LORD said unto my Lord”. In some Versions, like the 2011 New International, Good News, English Standard Version, New American Bible...

christianforums.net

That's the thread I am referring to. So given that the Lord at YHWH's right hand always refers to humans, then what do you say about Jesus being proven to not be YHWH?

 

[Randy]

God the Father is God.

God the Son is God; YHWH the LORD God.


If you choose to deny Jesus as LORD then that is on you.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

Jesus is God the begotten for in Him all the fullness of the Father was pleased to dwell. God is His Father from the beginning.

I'm not a biblical scholar in regard to bible translations but the NET bible states "He" was manifested in the flesh". I asked Dr Dan Wallace who is a trinitarian and was on the translation team and He stated their reasoning was in the Notes and he agrees with that reasoning.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

 

[Randy]

it is obvious that you know ZERO Hebrew!

Psalm 110:1 - Yahweh said to Yahweh

Psalm 110:1 – “nü´ùm Yehôvâh lA´dönî” A very important verse, and Psalm. In the greater majority of English Versions, we have as in the King James Bible, “The LORD said unto my Lord”. In some Versions, like the 2011 New International, Good News, English Standard Version, New American Bible...

christianforums.net

Its the Lord said to my Lord not the Lord said to the Lord.

 

[Randy]

God the Father is God.

God the Son is God; YHWH the LORD God.


If you choose to deny Jesus as LORD then that is on you.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

Yet it stated "Now" Gods place will be with man. Jesus, the Lord, was already on earth.
After the 1000 years there is no more death.
4Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

 

[follower]

If this is true of most all the forums/ internet threads and posts,
is there any place the truth only is permitted ? Anyplace online or in person ? (do not disclose the places in person where only truth is permitted - it makes them a target)

can you disprove what I have written from the Bible?

That's not the goal and not the point.
Another very lengthy series of posts,
several very long series actually,
in many threads,
is delusional. This is not about your topics or threads, in case you don't realize this.
Rather, notice that no matter how many posters show that the series of posts by those in deep error opposed to Jesus
, no matter how many times it is shown bright as day they are contrary to all Scripture,
they do not change.

There may be no benefit at all. Just a big waste of time, a loss of time. And readers being stumbled, without benefit, if they are not finding truth and rest in Jesus by Sheer Grace.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Its the Lord said to my Lord not the Lord said to the Lord.

Firstly, the literal Hebrew reads, "nə·’um Yah·weh la·ḏō·nî", which is in English, "said Yahweh to my Lord". There is no article used with "Yah·weh".

Secondly, in verse 5, when speaking of "la·ḏō·nî", it says, "’ă·ḏō·nāy ‘al yə·mî·nə·ḵā", "The Lord at Your Right Hand"

Note here, that here it is not the same "Lord" as in verse 1, which is the root, "’ă·ḏō·n"; but "’ă·ḏō·nāy", which is used 100's of times for Almighty God!

Further, in about 20 of the Jewish Hebrew manuscripts for this Psalm, instead of reading "’ă·ḏō·nāy", it reads, "Yah·weh". This means that "la·ḏō·nî", is also YHWH!

With this reading, verse one reads, "YHWH said to my YHWH", where we have TWO distinct Persons Who are equally called YHWH.

These are FACTS and not theology!

 

[SolaScriptura]

That's the thread I am referring to. So given that the Lord at YHWH's right hand always refers to humans, then what do you say about Jesus being proven to not be YHWH?

see #268

 

[Runningman]

see #268

I read it. The fact remains that the Hebrew manuscripts use the word (לַֽאדֹנִ֗י) la-ḏō-nî, which is a word used universally in scripture to refer to human masters. Psalm 110:1 is about YHWH speaking to a human lord, telling him to sit at His right hand.

What is your source that says otherwise?

 

[SolaScriptura]

I read it. The fact remains that the Hebrew manuscripts use the word (לַֽאדֹנִ֗י) la-ḏō-nî, which is a word used universally in scripture to refer to human masters. Psalm 110:1 is about YHWH speaking to a human lord, telling him to sit at His right hand.

What is your source that says otherwise?

Can you provide your evidence for this very much incorrect comment, "la-ḏō-nî, which is a word used universally in scripture to refer to human masters". The root word in Hebrew is “’āḏōn”, which is used MANY times for Almighty God. I have provided a few examples of this in my own study on this.

As for verse 1, Dr Adam Clarke, in his Commentary on Psalms, says on 110:1, “Said unto my Lord. Instead of ladoni, "my Lord," one MS. seems to have read layhovah, "Jehovah said unto Jehovah, 'Sit thou on my right hand,'" c. See De Rossi.”. At lest one Hebrew manuscript, which is by the Jews, and not Christians, has YHWH, in the second Name in verse 1, showing it has been corrupted to ladoni.
This is proven conclusive by the reading in verse 5

“The form in the text is not the tetragrammaton yehôvâh, but “Lord.” However, it is vocalized as the substitute word for the holy name, ’ăḏōnāy. The majority of the manuscripts therefore have the letters of the holy name. So it is the LORD at his right hand” (Allen P Ross, A Commentary on the Psalms, vol. 3, p. 339)

Further evidence that this verse, as verse one, has been tampered with by the Jews. In either case, verse 5 never read, “’āḏōn”, but "’ăḏōnāy", or “YHWH”, both Names used for Almighty God!

"YHWH at Your Right Hand", is the SAME as in verse 1, where He is called "ladoni".

These facts make the reading of "YHWH said to YHWH", absolutely Biblical, as the Hebrew evidence is conclusive!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings SolarScriptura,

These facts make the reading of "YHWH said to YHWH", absolutely Biblical, as the Hebrew evidence is conclusive!

Psalm 110:1 is speaking about Yahweh and David's Lord, David's adon, while Psalm 110:5 is speaking of the fact that Yahweh will be at the Messiah's right hand so that he can accomplish his work. You have used much slight of hand to accomplish your wrong conclusions.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[SolaScriptura]

Greetings SolarScriptura,

Psalm 110:1 is speaking about Yahweh and David's Lord, David's adon, while Psalm 110:5 is speaking of the fact that Yahweh will be at the Messiah's right hand so that he can accomplish his work. You have used much slight of hand to accomplish your wrong conclusions.

Kind regards
Trevor

how can FACTS be "much slight of hand"?

you make FALSE accusations because the FACTS are against your theology!

Psalm 110:5 is very clear, that the second LORD in verse 1, CANNOT be a "human", or anyone "lesser" than YHWH!

Prove the reading of verse 5 to be wrong!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again SolarScriptura,

Prove the reading of verse 5 to be wrong!

You failed to read what I stated.

Psalm 110:5 is speaking of the fact that Yahweh will be at the Messiah's right hand so that he can accomplish his work.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[SolaScriptura]

Greetings again SolarScriptura,

You failed to read what I stated.


Kind regards
Trevor

The text does NOT say what you do!

"The LORD at Your [the Father's] Right Hand", is Jesus Christ, Who is YHWH!

There is not ONE verse in the entire 66 Books of the Inspired Word of God that says, the Father is ever at the Right Hand of Jesus Christ! If you know of one, then produce it here!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again SolarScriptura,

There is not ONE verse in the entire 66 Books of the Inspired Word of God that says, the Father is ever at the Right Hand of Jesus Christ!

No need for a diversion. Context ! Context ! Simple clear meaning. You also ignore the many and ALL the N.T. quotations and expositions of Psalm 110:1.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[SolaScriptura]

Greetings again SolarScriptura,

No need for a diversion. Context ! Context ! Simple clear meaning. You also ignore the many and ALL the N.T. quotations and expositions of Psalm 110:1.

Kind regards
Trevor

Just provide ONE verse from the Bible that says that the Father is at the Right Hand of Jesus Christ.

You use this for Psalm 110.5 because there is no way around what the Bible actually says! This is known as a COPOUT!

 

[Runningman]

Can you provide your evidence for this very much incorrect comment, "la-ḏō-nî, which is a word used universally in scripture to refer to human masters". The root word in Hebrew is “’āḏōn”, which is used MANY times for Almighty God. I have provided a few examples of this in my own study on this.

The word in Psalm 110:1 is adoni please take another look because you seem to have missed it. This is beyond dispute and I am trying to help you. Adoni never refers to almighty God. It refers to human masters without exception. I gave you many proofs of this in post #258.

As for verse 1, Dr Adam Clarke, in his Commentary on Psalms, says on 110:1, “Said unto my Lord. Instead of ladoni, "my Lord," one MS. seems to have read layhovah, "Jehovah said unto Jehovah, 'Sit thou on my right hand,'" c. See De Rossi.”. At lest one Hebrew manuscript, which is by the Jews, and not Christians, has YHWH, in the second Name in verse 1, showing it has been corrupted to ladoni.
This is proven conclusive by the reading in verse 5

It’s not corrupted. The Hebrew manuscripts are more well-preserved than the Greek manuscripts. You have no proof of a corruption.

“The form in the text is not the tetragrammaton yehôvâh, but “Lord.” However, it is vocalized as the substitute word for the holy name, ’ăḏōnāy. The majority of the manuscripts therefore have the letters of the holy name. So it is the LORD at his right hand” (Allen P Ross, A Commentary on the Psalms, vol. 3, p. 339)

Thank you for quoting a source that confesses honestly that the Lord at His right hand is not YHWH.

Further evidence that this verse, as verse one, has been tampered with by the Jews. In either case, verse 5 never read, “’āḏōn”, but "’ăḏōnāy", or “YHWH”, both Names used for Almighty God!

"YHWH at Your Right Hand", is the SAME as in verse 1, where He is called "ladoni".

These facts make the reading of "YHWH said to YHWH", absolutely Biblical, as the Hebrew evidence is conclusive!

That would be extremely reaching since all of the other examples of Jesus in the Old Testament are of a human. Isaiah 7:14,15, Psalm 45:6, Psalm 2:7, and many more.

Your source doesn’t have proof of anything. God denied being a man in Numbers 23:19 and Hosea 11:9. So the Lord at the LORD’s right hand isn’t YHWH. If he was it would contradict the Bible and all of the other examples of him not being YHWH.

Another proof Jesus isn’t YHWH.

Psalm 2
7I will proclaim the decree
spoken to Me by the LORD: [YHWH]
“You are My Son; [Jesus]
today I have become Your Father.[YHWH]

 

[SolaScriptura]

In Hebrew there are variations of the root word adon. They are not all used the same ways and in the same context. The variant we are talking about right now is ’ă·ḏō·nî because that's the one that's used in Psalm 110:1. Other variants may mean different things, but the one that matters in regards to Jesus not being God right now is adoni. So I am actually trying to help you. As I previously pointed out, this is beyond dispute, and I would even go so far as to ring the bell and call this check mate. Adoni is used 100% of the time to refer to human masters/lords in the Bible. Let's look at some of the examples where this is the truth.

Below, the word used to refer to Jesus as the Lord at the right hand of YHWH in Psalm 110:1 is used 100% exlcusively in regards to those who are not God in the Bible.

Gen. 24:36​

My master’s wife Sarah has borne him a son in her old age, and my master has given him everything he owns.​

​

Gen. 32:4​

He instructed them, “You are to say to my master Esau, ‘Your servant Jacob says: I have been staying with Laban and have remained there until now.​

​

Gen. 44:9​

If any of your servants is found to have it, he must die, and the rest will become slaves of my lord.”​

​

1 Sam. 24:6​

So he said to his men, “The LORD forbid that I should do such a thing to my master, the LORD’s anointed. May I never lift my hand against him, since he is the LORD’s anointed.”​

​

1 Sam. 25:27​

Now let this gift your servant has brought to my lord be given to the young men who follow you​

​

2 Sam. 4:8​

They brought the head of Ish-bosheth to David at Hebron and said to the king, “Here is the head of Ish-bosheth son of Saul, your enemy who sought your life. Today the LORD has granted vengeance to my lord the king against Saul and his offspring.”​

​

2 Sam. 19:28​

For all the house of my grandfather deserves death from my lord the king, yet you have set your servant among those who eat at your table. What further right, then, do I have to keep appealing to the king?”​

​

1 Kings 1:2​

So his servants said to him, “Let us search for a young virgin for our lord the king, to attend to him and care for him and lie by his side to keep him warm.”​

​

1 Kings 18:13​

Was it not reported to my lord what I did when Jezebel slaughtered the prophets of the LORD? I hid a hundred prophets of the LORD, fifty men per cave, and I provided them with food and water.​

​

1 Kings 20:9​

So Ahab answered the messengers of Ben-hadad, “Tell my lord the king, ‘All that you demanded of your servant the first time I will do, but this thing I cannot do.’ ”​

​

1 Chronicles 21:3​

But Joab replied, “May the LORD multiply His troops a hundred times over. My lord the king, are they not all servants of my lord? Why does my lord want to do this? Why should he bring guilt on Israel?”​

​

Psalm 110:1​

The LORD said to my Lord:​

“Sit at My right hand​

until I make Your enemies​

a footstool for Your feet.”​

As I have said before you don't understand Hebrew so it is pointless discussing this with you!

 

[Runningman]

As I have said before you don't understand Hebrew so it is pointless discussing this with you!

Psalm 110:1 uses the word adoni of Jesus which is very strong proof Jesus isn’t God.