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MayDay

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If the belief in hell primarily creates a mindset of fear, that we will be punished by unimaginable pain if we do not adhere to the stipulations of Jesus the Christ. The primary stipulation that we must believe in him exclusively, that any deviation from his particular world view will result in torture seems to act as a catalyst for internal justification of one's beliefs.

This primary fear of hell installs itself in the mind of every new believer, and once this premise is fully accepted the believer is instantly trapped with guilt. From here the believer must stay dependant on the conditions Jesus the Christ has specified, otherwise they risk total damnation.

We can say that the believer has to fully accept and surrender themselves to Jesus the Christ in order that they may avoid this ghastly place. No evidence is required to debunk this primary belief because the mind has already accepted the idea of hell, and the believer will reject all evidence that might threaten their safe passage out of burning for all eternity.
 
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Not_Now.Soon said:
Does the reality of prison do the same, to perpetuate entrapment?

Think about it this way. In the justice system, those who break the law suffer the penalties whether it's a fine, or it's jail time. Is this a constant fear to make people be law abiding? Perhaps in some situations, where a person restrains themseves due to the laws saying to not harm another. They might restrain their anger, or their lust, or even restrain their desire to steal. However beyond those few moments, people act the way they do without consideration of breaking the law or jail time. Because most of what they like to do isn't breaking the law.

Now think about the point of hell. It's not prison time. It's the ultimate punishment. And it's also stated that without God's forgiveness, mercy, and grace, that we all deserve to go there due to our sinful natures. But God in His grace and mercy provided a way out of that destination. Is this entrapment? No more then obeying the laws of the land is entrapment for anyone living in the land.

Love God and seek Him. If you find Him you've found a real and brilliant treasure. Worth more then all you own. Keep that in mind. That God is a treasure, not a burden. That should help resolve the idea of staying close to God out of entrapment. Loving a sport and playing by the rules of the game are not a burden either for the person who finds joy in the game. It might be considered like a treasure too, instead of thinking on the terms of being restricted, like if the sport is legal or if they are restricted by not playing an illegal game.

Hope that helps.
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My desire to exercise my freedom makes me break the law of man all the time, so yes the belief I'll go to jail has the same effect of entrapment as the theology of Christian hell. My freedom vs man's punishment, another formality for human's to push their brand of morality on me.

But in actuality it's one group of people's morality imposing itself against another groups morality. But in the end all side's moral agenda's are equally faulty if they impose their laws as facts if in reality they only believe the other party is wrong.
 
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MayDay said:
My desire to exercise my freedom makes me break the law of man all the time,
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Are you married? If so, do you break the promise you made to your wife when you got married because they restrict your freedom or do you keep those promises because they give you the freedom to love her more than anything including your own life?

Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed." John 8:34-36 NKJV

We are not held captive to our sin and hell but have been freed from its bondage through our Lord and Savior, Jesus. Would you like to experience this freedom too?

“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:8-13 NKJV
 
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WIP said:
I'm not following you here. Can you clarify please?
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No one can actually say they know what they only believe. If I believe that I will die today due to a heartattack because I smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, this belief will not actually be real until the reality of my death today.
 
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WIP said:
Are you married? If so, do you break the promise you made to your wife when you got married because they restrict your freedom or do you keep those promises because they give you the freedom to love her more than anything including your own life?

Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed." John 8:34-36 NKJV

We are not held captive to our sin and hell but have been freed from its bondage through our Lord and Savior, Jesus. Would you like to experience this freedom too?

“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:8-13 NKJV
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Marriage does not exist in nature, does it.
 
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MayDay said:
No one can actually say they know what they only believe. If I believe that I will die today due to a heartattack because I smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, this belief will not actually be real until the reality of my death today.
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Ah, I understand.

You are correct to a point. This is where the distinction between belief and faith come into play. Faith is a belief that goes beyond just evidence. It is taking that step of assurance that your belief is as real as the air you breath. The Bible describes faith this way.

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Hebrews 11:1 NKJV
 
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Back to hell. I have certainty that it exists. Not because of belief. Because I've been there. I had what the Bible would call a "vision" of hell.

I had faith before my experience. After, I had complete certainty. Good enough for you?
 
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KevinK said:
Back to hell. I have certainty that it exists. Not because of belief. Because I've been there. I had what the Bible would call a "vision" of hell.

I had faith before my experience. After, I had complete certainty. Good enough for you?
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Classically hell is yet to exist. So how in the world are you experiencing something that is yet to exist? Unless you've been exposed to such an idea previously, and the belief system has already installed itself in your brain.
 
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WIP said:
Ah, I understand.

You are correct to a point. This is where the distinction between belief and faith come into play. Faith is a belief that goes beyond just evidence. It is taking that step of assurance that your belief is as real as the air you breath. The Bible describes faith this way.

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Hebrews 11:1 NKJV
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You hope there's a hell?
 
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I see. Well, it is difficult, I admit. People have brought this up before. I not only saw Hell, I saw people already there. Thus I do not personally subscribe to the scriptural interpretation of abode of the dead. I believe Hell already exists, and has been taking customers.

As to your question, without the "fortune" of having your own Hellish experience, I think you're going to have to explore the Faith option, as there are no other options. There must be many people damned who waited for absolute certainty until it was too late to avoid it.

Sorry, I'm afraid I don't have a better answer for you.
 
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KevinK said:
I see. Well, it is difficult, I admit. People have brought this up before. I not only saw Hell, I saw people already there. Thus I do not personally subscribe to the scriptural interpretation of abode of the dead. I believe Hell already exists, and has been taking customers.

As to your question, without the "fortune" of having your own Hellish experience, I think you're going to have to explore the Faith option, as there are no other options. There must be many people damned who waited for absolute certainty until it was too late to avoid it.

Sorry, I'm afraid I don't have a better answer for you.
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To the question of hell's existence....
Jesus said it was real and so I believe it without any reservation and it's enough for me.

You seem to be concerned about hell and you should be but I would suggest studying more about heaven. Jesus referred to heaven about three times more often than he did about hell. Why? Because that is what He came to earth for; to give us the good news (gospel) that we can be saved from hell and have eternal life in heaven. As I posted earlier, He didn't come here to condemn the world (we already condemned it with our sin) but He came so we can be saved.
 
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