Here is one that will make you think....

[jgredline]

Acts 4:32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.
36 And Joses, who was also named Barnabas by the apostles (which is translated Son of Encouragement), a Levite of the country of Cyprus, 37 having land, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
Lying to the Holy Spirit

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. 2 And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.â€Â
5 Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. 6 And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him.
7 Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter answered her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?â€Â
She said, “Yes, for so much.â€Â
9 Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.†10 Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. 11 So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things.

Here it is...If you read this event in context, (remember, the chapter breaks and verses were not in the originals) it is pretty clear that Ananias, with Sapphira his wife were among those who believed....So How is it that Ananias was filled with Satan...''Demon possessed''....Can a Christian have a demon? The Greek is emphatic that he was indeed filled with ''the prince of evil spirits''..... :o

Ponder it for a little bit and see what you come up with...

 

[Guest]

I realize you say to ponder, however reading through it - there was a word that stood out that might hold the key:

BUT

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

... it is pretty clear that Ananias, with Sapphira his wife were among those who believed....

nope. Read it again. The multitude OF those who believed were of one heart and soul. It does not say that Ananias and Sapphira were one of them.
They saw all of the attention that Barnabas was getting and wanted a piece of that action.

 

[jgredline]

The Greek TR MANUSCRIPTS USE ''Ανηρ δε''

So instead of BUT at the beginning od chapter 5 it should read something to the effect of ''and a certain distinguished man named Ananias and his wife Safira''....If you look closely at the context. I believe it is referring to the same event during the same gathering...

By the way, I do not believe a Christian can be possessed by a demon...
I will explain more later.

Oh one last note....Some Greek manuscripts leave out ''Ανηρ'' which will then turn the conjunction to ''BUT''

Just another monkey wrench....

 

[stovebolts]

Just a hunch, but I'd look at Mt 13, starting around vs. 24 for an explanation...

 

[Imagican]

j,

in this we are in mutual agreement. I have heard MANY offer that Christians CANNOT be influenced or possessed by demons. The scriptures CLEARLY speak DIFFERENTLY.

For instance; IF Chrisitians were NOT able to be influenced by Satan or his demons, WHY would we have this warning;


Ephesians 6:11

10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

19And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

20For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Please note that I have BOLDED that which is EXPRESSEDLY STATING that WE, (Christians), are to BEWARE lest we ARE influenced by Satan or his demons. Words such as 'brethren', 'we', etc are NOT written to those that DO NOT know Christ.

So, here is PERFECT evidence that Christians CAN and ARE influenced by Satan. For one MUST wear the ENTIRE armor EVERY SECOND to be ABLE to defend themselves against our foe.

MEC

 

[francisdesales]

j,

in this we are in mutual agreement. I have heard MANY offer that Christians CANNOT be influenced or possessed by demons. The scriptures CLEARLY speak DIFFERENTLY.

Imagican,

I agree with you, also. 1 Cor 5 is a clear example of a Christian, a member of the community, being influenced by a demon - and Paul handing him over to satan to shame him and hopefully bring him back to the community.

Regards

 

[Imagican]

Imagican,

I agree with you, also. 1 Cor 5 is a clear example of a Christian, a member of the community, being influenced by a demon - and Paul handing him over to satan to shame him and hopefully bring him back to the community.

Regards

Yep,

And another good example is the man that 'cleaned his house'. Only to 'fall back' and become in a more perilous state in the end than he was before coming to the TRUTH.

No, I personally believe that there is NOT ENOUGH taught by the churches concerning the IMMEDIATE THREAT of Satan's minions. It's almost as if the churches shun this topic COMPLETELY. Only indicating that there MAY be demon influence in those that DO NOT DISCUSS such issues. For Satan HATES the TRUTH and will go to ANY lengths necessary to 'hide such' from those that he chooses to manipulate.

And NEVER forget that one day SOON, ALMOST the ENTIRE Earth will bow to the serpent, worshiping him AS GOD. For this to BE TRUE, MOST of the 'religious community' will HAVE to be 'misled' for this to become manifest.

MEC

 

[ourfamily1]

Of course saints can be possessed by devils!

Here are two examples:

1. Matthew 16:21. From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

2. Luke 9:51. And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, 52. And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. 53. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. 54. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 55. But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. 56. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.


Who allows this?

Romans 8:18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

How extensive is demonic influence?

Revelation 13:4. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

So "the saints" can be wrong when they are sure they are right!

What can YOU do to avoid this?

Pray always for all men, that Father will deliver men from evil as stated in the Lord's prayer!

John,
ourfamily1 :angel:

 

[jgredline]

Mec
I know you and I have touched on this before and lets dive in and see where it takes us...I am short on time, but perhaps this evening we can take a look at a few things that will make you think...

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.


This is one of those verses that troubles me, simply because of a comma. Move the comma, change the meaning. Let me show you.

But he turned to Peter, "Get behind me." <- Notice I placed a period here.
"Satan! Thou are an offence to me..." I sometimes can see Jesus shouting that out to the devil, sometimes it seems as if He were shaking His head in disgust. But I have always seen it as speaking to Peter in the first part, and speaking to the devil in the second.

Am I rewriting Scripture by moving a comma when there is no punctuation in the original language? Does it make more sense that Jesus is telling satan that he is an offence?

Does it seem totally out of character with the Lord Jesus Christ to be calling one of his disciples the devil, especially after rebuking a bunch of scribes for calling Him demon possessed.
Looking up the term "Get behind me" in the concordance, it seems to mean something along the lines of "Get away from me."


:o READY? AIM! FIRE! :smt067 :lilangel:

 

[Vic C.]

I'll take the first shot:

Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, [ :o ] saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter,...

I say HE was definately talking to Peter. 8-)

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

But he turned to Peter, "Get behind me." <- Notice I placed a period here.


"Satan! Thou are an offence to me..." I sometimes can see Jesus shouting that out to the devil, sometimes it seems as if He were shaking His head in disgust. But I have always seen it as speaking to Peter in the first part, and speaking to the devil in the second.

Yeah, I agree with you there. He said that to Peter. However I believe that when he said "..satan, thou are and offence to me..." He was talking to satan.

Another thing I take into consideration, is this: If Peter, who was standing there next to Jesus Christ, had been possessed, wouldn't Jesus have cast the devil out?

 

[destiny]

“Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?

I wouldn't think that means possession but influence. Satan saw a weakness in the flesh for greed and took advantage through demonic influence of the mind (heart).
It happens all the time

 

[Guest]

One can be influenced, persuaded, encouraged, without being 'possessed'.

 

[jgredline]

Here is another to consider

31 Then He went down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and was teaching them on the Sabbaths. 32 And they were astonished at His teaching, for His word was with authority. 33 Now in the synagogue there was a man who had a spirit of an unclean demon. And he cried out with a loud voice, 34 saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are the Holy One of God!â€Â
35 But Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be quiet, and come out of him!†And when the demon had thrown him in their midst, it came out of him and did not hurt him. 36 Then they were all amazed and spoke among themselves, saying, “What a word this is! For with authority and power He commands the unclean spirits, and they come out.†37 And the report about Him went out into every place in the surrounding region.

Lk 4:31-37

Notice...Where was this man who was possessed?
He was basically in church.... :o
Notice that ''only'' jews would be in a synagogue...Chances are this fellow would have been going there for years with out anyone suspecting a thing...
But when the king walked in, the devil came out....

 

[Guest]

Here is another to consider



Notice...Where was this man who was possessed?
He was basically in church.... :o
Notice that ''only'' jews would be in a synagogue...Chances are this fellow would have been going there for years with out anyone suspecting a thing...
But when the king walked in, the devil came out....

Were Jews promised the ministry of the Holy Spirit to be 'sealed'?

If one is sealed with the Holy Spirit, can a demon possess that person? Again, I would argue that a Christian - sealed with the Holy Spirit, can be influenced, encouraged, persuaded - but no possessed.

 

[jgredline]

If one is sealed with the Holy Spirit, can a demon possess that person? Again, I would argue that a Christian - sealed with the Holy Spirit, can be influenced, encouraged, persuaded - but no possessed.

I agree with you....but lets see where this takes us...

 

[destiny]

I bet not only were there demon possessed people in the synagogues, there were also demon possessed leaders.
The pharisees seemed like religious devils to me.

Satan still sometimes wears a suit and carries a bible.

 

[jgredline]

I bet not only were there demon possessed people in the synagogues, there were also demon possessed leaders.
The pharisees seemed like religious devils to me.

Satan still sometimes wears a suit and carries a bible.

YES, YES AND YES....