How to address the many conflicting end times models?

[journeyman]

Greetings again journeyman,

Perhaps you should tell the people of Ukraine and Gaza that there will be no more war Isaiah 2:4.

Believers in war torn places are defeating evil with the gospel, one sinner at a time.

Also you ignore the fact that a significant remnant of Israel will become the first nation in the Kingdom of God Micah 4:6-8. And Daniel 2:35,44 predicts the complete replacement of the kingdoms of men with the Kingdom of God. Last time I looked there were still many nations, or kingdoms of men.

The "kingdoms of men" are shown as united against God because they all follow the beast.

Perhaps you do not believe in the return of Jesus to the earth Acts 1:10-11, Acts 3:19-21.

Kind regards
Trevor

Discused already as our Savior returns as He left holy, separate from sinners and returning that same way only He'll be returning in fire that engulfs the universe.
He divides the spoil with the "strong", that is the meek.

 

[journeyman]

Why are we arguing over the fact that we were all at one time enemies of God?
Why are we arguing over the fact that God

delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: Col.1:13 KJV

Gathered from all trouble, any persecution, even death, even the destruction unleashed by 4 horsemen,

he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Isa.11:12 KJV

they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mt.24:31

Is there anything our Savior taught about His Kingdom from a temporary perspective? Except for things like pain, suffering, etc, I don't see it.

Everything the Messiah taught about His Kingdom is from the Eternal perspective.

 

[JJonas]

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

There is no longer Jew nor Greek, but God will have saved 144,000 out of all the tribes of the children of Israel, Rev 7. These servants are the generational 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim as they fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1Kings12:25-33; Hosea 5:9, 11;Psalms 78:9-17, 65-67. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh. Judah is mentioned first as Messiah was to come from the lineage of David.

It's true that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek. However it is also true that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob (Rom 11:25b-26). Yes, God still has a plan for the earthly Israel. Why? Even though Israel did much evil, until the laws of the universe cease to exist, Israel remains a nation in God's eyes (Jer. 31:35-37), for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (Rom 11:29).

Could you repeat your second question?

Here it is:

And how do you explain the paradox that these enemies are called “beloved”, which is a strong word? Indeed, Jesus was called “beloved” too (Luke 3:22).

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again journeyman,

Believers in war torn places are defeating evil with the gospel, one sinner at a time.
He'll be returning in fire that engulfs the universe.

In trying to substantiate that the various prophecies are only gradual from the time of Christ's first advent, you deny the detail of the second coming of Jesus, and end up with total destruction. Seems very empty to me.
Numbers 14:21 (KJV): But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[for_his_glory]

It's true that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek. However it is also true that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob (Rom 11:25b-26). Yes, God still has a plan for the earthly Israel. Why? Even though Israel did much evil, until the laws of the universe cease to exist, Israel remains a nation in God's eyes (Jer. 31:35-37), for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (Rom 11:29).


Here it is:

Do you believe the tribe of Dan and Ephraim will also be saved when Christ returns? There could be a chance that they could repent and turn back to God possibly, but God has already sent His judgement on them as He already replaced them as to make it 144,000 from each tribe as the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh, Rev 7:4-8.

Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

The Mystery of Israel's Salvation
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

They are enemies, which I can only assume meaning the tribe of Dan and Ephraim, plus all who have turned away from God and rejected His beloved Son Christ Jesus, as only the elect of God are His own by faith.

 

[journeyman]

Greetings again journeyman,

In trying to substantiate that the various prophecies are only gradual from the time of Christ's first advent,

No It's from the time of our first earthly parents Adam and Eve believed the promises of God in the Garden Eden before they went out into this world. Jerusalem is the Bride of Christ. All the faithful one with Him.

you deny the detail of the second coming of Jesus, and end up with total destruction. Seems very empty to me.

You deny His coming in Person is Judgement Day for all living and dead.

Numbers 14:21 (KJV): But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.
Kind regards
Trevor

Moses prayed for mercy so that Gods' name wouldn't be mocked.

Trevor, please understand Num.14:21 this way,

the nations which have heard the fame of thee will speak, saying, Because the LORD was not able to bring this people into the land which he sware unto them,
Num.14:15-16 KJV

Then God says,

I have pardoned according to thy word: Num.14:20 KJV

Who was pardoned and why?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again journeyman,

You deny His coming in Person is Judgement Day for all living and dead.

I believe that the Judgement when Christ returns will be very sequential, over a number of years, with various judgements on different individuals, groups and nations, and the end result will be the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth, with Jesus seated on the Temple Throne of David in literal Jerusalem for the 1000 years, with the faithful as immortal king / priests ruling over significant remnant of Jews in the Holy Land, who will be converted and accept Christ, and the rest of the nations subjected and learning the ways of God Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14, Matthew 19:28, Acts 1:10-11, 3:19-21, Revelation 5:9-10 and many other passages.

I am not interested in answering your style of understanding, as it seems to be very superficial.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[journeyman]

I am not interested in answering your style of understanding, as it seems to be very superficial.

You cited the passage. but belief in a 1000 years long period after Christ appears in Person is contrary to what He told Moses.

 

[journeyman]

What's sad is not recognizing the earth was (and always will be) filled with the glory of God when His word comes to pass. None greater than the Messiah defeating the grave.
So every adult Israelite that saw Gods' miracles (except Joshua and Caleb) died in the wildreness because they refused correction.

But the correction is going on now,

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Heb.12:8 KJV

Now that Jesus has come it makes perfect sense, because no one who had to be dragged along complaining will ever enter Gods' rest.

 

[journeyman]

Even back then, God let both Jews and gentiles know ahead of time who was going into the land of promise and who was not and why and some of them still mocked.

 

[journeyman]

Historic and Dispensational Premillennialism, Postmillennialism, Amillennialism, Inmillennialism, Preterism, ... It looks like we have a never ending list of end time models! How to sort this confusion out?

I've been called a Preterist before I knew what the term meant. After having read a brief definition, I think Preterists are on the right track because the gospel of the Jewish Messiah shows how Gods' people haved endured hardship 1) To correct them from sin and 2) To conform them to the image of the Messiah...the Image of God on earth.

 

[journeyman]

Point being the gospel covers from beginning to end, so continuous repetition of faith in Christ from Genesis until our Lord Jesus returns as Judge.

 

[journeyman]

Abraham looked for a Heavenly Kingdom,

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seeka country.....they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly
Heb.11:14,16

Also like the gospel, God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. Although God told him He would raise his promised son back to life, it would still be very hard to watch your child die.

Tons of misunderstanding why the scriptures portray God as happy about the way His Son died like,

he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Isa.53:9 KJV

In other words our Savior was slandered by false witnesses.

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: Isa.53:10 KJV

To learn the love God has for people who hate Him isn't something Jesus needed to learn. It's something sinners need to learn.

The Son displayed His Fathers' express Image perfectly. That's what the real God is happy about.

 

[follower]

How to sort this confusion out?

Ignore it all.
There is no confusion in Christ Jesus nor in heaven; none at all from the Creator in heaven, except what He sends to the ungodly on earth, OR maybe? to test His people to see if they will trust Him to free them ?