Infant Baptism

[RobertMazar]

As a Catholic I believe that Infant Baptism is perfectly fine because I believe that Baptism(Infant and Adult) is just a dedication of infants and adults to Christ. 8-)

 

[eleventyseven]

I agree. :3

Personally, I believe that infant baptism is really more a ceremony for the parents than the child. It is a ceremony that indicates the parents are giving their child to Christ, and that they are accepting Him into the child-rearing process, as well as affirming their faith in Him.

When I become a parent, I intend to give my child the option of having another baptism, if they feel they want to give themselves up to Him as well. When they're older, that is.

 

[cyberjosh]

Well the only problem is that you cant really call it "baptism" if you sprinkle it on them. Of course there are entire theological volumes written debating that point, but I think the most straight forward approach to baptism in the Bible is complete immersion, just like how Biblical fasting is absolutely no food and drinking nothing but water, while some people just fast from some foods or drink broth or something to keep their strength up (nothing wrong with that, but its not the traditional Biblical fast). The same (I think) goes for baptism - I say it is complete immersion.

And needless to say you can dedicate a baby without sprinkling water on it. But then again I don't see any particular harm if you do either.

Just my thoughts.

~Josh

 

[eleventyseven]

That's an interesting take on it. : )

Though I don't really think God will care whether you sprinkle it on the baby or if you dunk it. Either way, you are dedicating your child's life and your faith to Christ. I think that's what baptism is - the dedication, not how wet the child gets.

Like you said in another thread, Shark, it's the motives of the heart, right? :3

 

[cyberjosh]

I think that's what baptism is - the dedication, not how wet the child gets.

Well in this context I suppose. But Biblical baptism is a external sign of personal faith in Christ as a sign that you have been born again.

Like you said in another thread, Shark, it's the motives of the heart, right? :3

Right.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Veritas]

I think that even though infants may not be able to reason, they can have faith, so baptism is okay for them.

 

[Fnerb]

I think that even though infants may not be able to reason, they can have faith, so baptism is okay for them.

I agree.

 

[Apostolic_Believer]

It is evident throughout the bible that we must be baptized. Baptism is part of the covenant, in which you are saying that you will be a follower, or the parents of a child are saying that they will raise this child to be a follower. So baptism is the initiation into the New Covenant. I often wonder how come infant baptism was accepted and practiced by every Christian until the 17th century? Many people are taught that infant baptism is wrong. Well if you study the covenant of Abraham and Moses, then you will see how children were included into that covenant. Even in the New Covenant Jesus says, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.†(Mark 10:14).
Under Abraham, infants were incorporated into the covenant through circumcision and a naming ceremony (if the children were girls). Paul tells us in Colossians 2:11-12 that baptism replaced circumcision as the means of entry into the covenant (family of God). Since circumcision was administered to infants, and since baptism takes it place, it is logical to assume that baptism is meant for infants also. There is also evidence in Acts, that children are being baptized. In Acts 16: 15 and Acts 16:33, entire families are being baptized. Peter tells us that the promise of salvation encompasses children too (Acts 2:39). Whether you believe in infant baptism or not, all Christians agree that when you are baptized, you become a follower of Christ.

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

It is evident throughout the bible that we must be baptized. Baptism is part of the covenant, in which you are saying that you will be a follower,

Notice he gets it right here, then Like a true Catholic adds to it, gives his explanation why, then chastizes us for not reading what the Bible actually says!!

or the parents of a child are saying that they will raise this child to be a follower. So baptism is the initiation into the New Covenant. I often wonder how come infant baptism was accepted and practiced by every Christian until the 17th century?

Here again he self justifies it, and uses scripture out of context to make a point, that can't be both true and false. (But this is the path he leads us on!) Any verse anywhere can be used to justify his position, so long as it doesn't go against Catholic dogma!

Many people are taught that infant baptism is wrong. Well if you study the covenant of Abraham and Moses, then you will see how children were included into that covenant. Even in the New Covenant Jesus says, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.†(Mark 10:14).

Here he equates Circumsion with Baptism. If you were a Hebrew baby good luck, you better run away by 8 days old or whack. Baptism is of the heart of someone that whats to dedicate themself to God. Only you can decide that. Catholics would have us baptize everyone if they could. John the Baptist only baptized those who wished it, Christ only made disciples of those who followed.

Under Abraham, infants were incorporated into the covenant through circumcision and a naming ceremony (if the children were girls). Paul tells us in Colossians 2:11-12 that baptism replaced circumcision as the means of entry into the covenant (family of God). Since circumcision was administered to infants, and since baptism takes it place, it is logical to assume that baptism is meant for infants also. There is also evidence in Acts, that children are being baptized. In Acts 16: 15 and Acts 16:33, entire families are being baptized. Peter tells us that the promise of salvation encompasses children too (Acts 2:39).

Whether you believe in infant baptism or not, all Christians agree that when you are baptized, you become a follower of Christ.


I remember Damien being baptized in that movie of his, does that make him a saint? You can't possibly believe that just because you are baptized you are apporved of God? See if you dont believe in infant baptism you still have to believe that once baptized always saved dogma of Catholics!

You've missed the whole concept of Baptism, Francis and swept it under the Pontifical Rug of Approval!

 

[Solo]

I think that even though infants may not be able to reason, they can have faith, so baptism is okay for them.

What about infants that do not have faith? Which ones need rebaptized later on?

 

[Solo]

It is evident throughout the bible that we must be baptized. Baptism is part of the covenant, in which you are saying that you will be a follower, or the parents of a child are saying that they will raise this child to be a follower. So baptism is the initiation into the New Covenant. I often wonder how come infant baptism was accepted and practiced by every Christian until the 17th century? Many people are taught that infant baptism is wrong. Well if you study the covenant of Abraham and Moses, then you will see how children were included into that covenant. Even in the New Covenant Jesus says, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.†(Mark 10:14).
Under Abraham, infants were incorporated into the covenant through circumcision and a naming ceremony (if the children were girls). Paul tells us in Colossians 2:11-12 that baptism replaced circumcision as the means of entry into the covenant (family of God). Since circumcision was administered to infants, and since baptism takes it place, it is logical to assume that baptism is meant for infants also. There is also evidence in Acts, that children are being baptized. In Acts 16: 15 and Acts 16:33, entire families are being baptized. Peter tells us that the promise of salvation encompasses children too (Acts 2:39). Whether you believe in infant baptism or not, all Christians agree that when you are baptized, you become a follower of Christ.

There are absolutely no Scriptures that show infants being baptized. Only households where the word of God is believed and acted upon. Don't lie.

 

[Veritas]

I think that even though infants may not be able to reason, they can have faith, so baptism is okay for them.

What about infants that do not have faith? Which ones need rebaptized later on?

Good question. I don't know. It would be alot easier if I could say with certainty that all infants that are baptized have faith.

So wait... are you in agreement that infants can have faith? ...just not so much the baptism part?

 

[Solo]

Good question. I don't know. It would be alot easier if I could say with certainty that all infants that are baptized have faith.

So wait... are you in agreement that infants can have faith? ...just not so much the baptism part?

It is my understanding that infants are not capable of knowing the Word of God, therefore, are incapable of having faith. No where in the Scriptures does an infant have faith. No where in the Scriptures are infants baptized.

I was baptized as an infant, and I did not have faith, nor was I bound for heaven; I was heading to the place where all condemned individuals will end up. Until one hears the Word of God and is quickened by the Holy Spirit to recognize and act upon the truth, one cannot be born of God.

Do I believe that infants will be lost and on their way to the condemnation of the lost? No. I believe that God's character reveals his mercy upon those that were not able to have faith. I also believe that Jesus Christ's shed blood paid the price for those children to enter into the kingdom of God as well, but I am not dogmatic about it. Jesus spoke of the position of children and that unless individuals were converted and became as them they would not enter into the Kingdom of God. Notice in the following Scripture verses that Jesus spoke of children as believing in Him:

• 1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Matthew 18:1-6

 

[RobertMazar]

It is my understanding that infants are not capable of knowing the Word of God, therefore, are incapable of having faith. No where in the Scriptures does an infant have faith. No where in the Scriptures are infants baptized.

I was baptized as an infant, and I did not have faith, nor was I bound for heaven; I was heading to the place where all condemned individuals will end up. Until one hears the Word of God and is quickened by the Holy Spirit to recognize and act upon the truth, one cannot be born of God.

Do I believe that infants will be lost and on their way to the condemnation of the lost? No. I believe that God's character reveals his mercy upon those that were not able to have faith. I also believe that Jesus Christ's shed blood paid the price for those children to enter into the kingdom of God as well, but I am not dogmatic about it. Jesus spoke of the position of children and that unless individuals were converted and became as them they would not enter into the Kingdom of God. Notice in the following Scripture verses that Jesus spoke of children as believing in Him:

• 1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Matthew 18:1-6

If Baptism does not impart salvation but instead is just a dedication of infants and adults to Christ then it is totally superfluous if infants are Baptized as well as adults. 8-)

 

[Solo]

If Baptism does not impart salvation but instead is just a dedication of infants and adults to Christ then it is totally superfluous if infants are Baptized as well as adults. 8-)

Baptism of infants is unnecessary. Baptism of children and adults after they become believers is the first act of obedience to the commandment of Christ Jesus, and is a profession of faith in Christ to others. The water baptism also signifies the baptism of the Holy Spirit upon belief after hearing the Word of God.

 

[Fnerb]

It is my understanding that infants are not capable of knowing the Word of God, therefore, are incapable of having faith. No where in the Scriptures does an infant have faith. No where in the Scriptures are infants baptized.

I was baptized as an infant, and I did not have faith, nor was I bound for heaven; I was heading to the place where all condemned individuals will end up. Until one hears the Word of God and is quickened by the Holy Spirit to recognize and act upon the truth, one cannot be born of God.

But doesn't that turn faith from a miracle that the holy spirit creates in us to some form of basic "elementary" understanding? Faith and intelligence are not the same thing. One can have all the intelligence in the world and lack faith and vice versa.

An infant is just as guilty of sin as you or I, are they not?

1 John 2:13 - I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

But me arguing this point is moot. I see baptism as a means of Grace - a saving act of God, not an act of obedience of man.

Titus 3: 5 - 6:
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

 

[Solo]

But doesn't that turn faith from a miracle that the holy spirit creates in us to some form of basic "elementary" understanding? Faith and intelligence are not the same thing. One can have all the intelligence in the world and lack faith and vice versa.

An infant is just as guilty of sin as you or I, are they not?

1 John 2:13 - I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

But me arguing this point is moot. I see baptism as a means of Grace - a saving act of God, not an act of obedience of man.

Titus 3: 5 - 6:
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

And where in the Scriptures is Faith defined as a miracle?

Faith is an action of belief after hearing the Word of God throughout Scriptures. No where is Faith given to those who cannot believe.

 

[RobertMazar]

Baptism of infants is unnecessary. Baptism of children and adults after they become believers is the first act of obedience to the commandment of Christ Jesus, and is a profession of faith in Christ to others. The water baptism also signifies the baptism of the Holy Spirit upon belief after hearing the Word of God.

Baptism is just a dedication of infants and adults to Christ and does not impart salvation. So why should it matter if infants are Baptized as well as adults? 8-)

 

[Heidi]

As a Catholic I believe that Infant Baptism is perfectly fine because I believe that Baptism(Infant and Adult) is just a dedication of infants and adults to Christ. 8-)

The problem with infant baptism though, is that when a person does become born again later in life, he doesn't know whether he should be re-baptized. No such problem existed in biblical times because those who were baptized asked to be baptized. They therefore consciously knew what baptism meant. So it wasn't just a ritual of which the participants had no understanding like babies who don't even have a clue who Jesus is, much less can make a commitment to follow him. :o

 

[RobertMazar]

The problem with infant baptism though, is that when a person does become born again later in life, he doesn't know whether he should be re-baptized. No such problem existed in biblical times because those who were baptized asked to be baptized. They therefore consciously knew what baptism meant. So it wasn't just a ritual of which the participants had no understanding like babies who don't even have a clue who Jesus is, much less can make a commitment to follow him. :o

If an individual was Baptized as an infant and then later on in life they receive Christ as their Savior then they do not have to be Baptized again because their Baptism as an infant was a valid Baptism because it was done in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But if an individual was not Baptized as an infant and then later on in life they received Christ as their Savior then they should get Baptized to be dedicated to Christ. When my late Uncle converted to the Baptist Church from the Catholic Church he decided not to be Baptized again because he believed that his Baptism as an infant in the Catholic Church was a valid Baptism because it was done in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And my late Uncle's Baptist minister did not require that my late Uncle be Baptized again in the Baptist Church. 8-)